Striped Bass, the condition of the fishery

[Canalman]

How can anyone call closing the Commercial Season a moot point? If you really think the recreational set is doing more damage, which over the season they might be, you're still saving over a million pounds of commercial bass not to mention the tens-of-thousands of pounds of hardly mentioned cull fish that get tossed over the side when the 31st to 50th bass of the day is bigger than one they kept earlier that morning.

If you're going to keep the season open. Make it 5 fish per day 7 days a week, all season long, that way there is no "free for all" as BackBeach put it and the market doesn;t flood. You can sell your 20 or 30 at $2.00 pp when the market is flooded or you can stabilize the market by guranteeing a fresh, daily supply the restaurants will put it on the menu and the price will go UP.

Next, make it MA residents only. These two changes would keep the guys who save their vacation time to go fishing everyday to make extra money off the water. No one can justify taking time off to sell 5 fish per day.

If you all want your chance to save the bait
Vote on the new Menhaden Bill in MA, they are trying to open our inshore waters to purse seining for Menhaden again.

We need to organize a F()KING bus trip for this one!

I still think we should close the commercial fishery, we're NOT saving ANYTHING by keeping it open and that really IS the BOTTOM LINE.

-Dave

[Canalman]

oooh and not to mention the tens of thousands of pogies that the commerical fleet kills and rigs daily for live, chunk and yo-yo baits. Now what's your next move?

[Sea Dangles]

Dave, the comm fleet is not killing tens of thousands daily,not even close. It may not even be weekly.There are a limited amount of guys supplying bait stores with fresh pogies, but the comm fishermen don't even come close to taking those kind of numbers.

[Canalman]

You don't think so? I could be wrong... but I know more than a few guys who won't head out until they have 300 to rig for yo-yoing, chumming and chunking. Maybe TENS of thousands was a bit of an exaggeration but I don't think thousands is.

[JohnR]

In a nut shell, everything should be cut way back - commercial & recreational take for bass, commercial & recreational take for forage, etc...

Now, as pointed out in other posts, if all we are doing is arguing here about it in a circular fashion, we're probably going to argue and argue while the problem gets worse. What Would it take to get people INVOLVED?

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

What Would it take to get people INVOLVED?

This is where I'm trying to go.

The problem I keep seeing is that people almost seem afraid to fight for any version of this. Especially on here. Now I am not saying that I'm some hero, because I'm just as guilty as the next guy.

If not for people like BasicPatrick and the very-few others that are the one loud voice on the behalf of the millions of recreational fishermen we would be toally sunk. The way the panels that vote on these things are skewed right now, there's already a foot of water on the deck.

Doesn't anyone own a bus...? that would be awesome to show up in an S-B.com bus and storm these very important meetings.

[Crafty Angler]

Well, you're either on the bus or off the bus, like the Pranksters used to say -

I'm in - no, actually, I'm on -

This isn't state by state because it does little to mandate a change in just one portion of the striped bass range - but it could be the start of a groundswell of support for tighter regs on BOTH sides of the issues - and we - recs and comms - BOTH have to take a hit on limits to preserve a common resource.

You can sort out the rest of the crap later but that aspect will never be fully resolved anyway as to who was to blame - there's plenty of it to go around and no one is faultless. The pissing contest just gets in the way of the objective and we all have a stake in the effort one way or another.

This could be the start of a groundswell at a grassroots level - the time could very well be right. Just keep your ****ing finger in your pocket for now and stop wasting time and energy if you actually want to get something done about it.

Hmmmm....I don't suppose anyone on this board owns a bus, do they?

Funny, while editing it appears a couple of other posts popped up with the same question...

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

but the comm fishermen don't even come close to taking those kind of numbers.

How do you know this though? Do you know every commercial fisherman? Just the ammount of guys on the pigs, around the islands and gay head would easily add to up to a few thousand pogies each day if they had 40 each. (I know they take many more than that). And we're no even counting the Cape guys, the guys around Nantucket and the rest of the Vineyard and the Boston Harbor heading north. The more I think about it, the more I think 10,000 might be a possible daily bunker kill, during the commercial season.

Maybe we should make livelining and chunking illegal?

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Canalman

How do you know this though? Do you know every commercial fisherman? Just the ammount of guys on the pigs, around the islands and gay head would easily add to up to a few thousand pogies each day if they had 40 each. (I know they take many more than that). And we're no even counting the Cape guys, the guys around Nantucket and the rest of the Vineyard and the Boston Harbor heading north. The more I think about it, the more I think 10,000 might be a possible daily bunker kill, during the commercial season.

Maybe we should make livelining and chunking illegal?

I don't fish there too often to be honest.I do not know many comm. guys in MA either. I just know they don't all use pogies and not many comm guys chum.30 or 40 baits is enough to get out there and be effective. It is usually not a fleet out there the way you might envision it.Combine this with the amount of days you can actually fish commercially......

[MikeToole]

If you look at what is happening in Area 1A right now there will be no herring fishing from 1/1/09 through 5/30/09. Much of this is due to a write in campaign by sport fisherman. There are on going meetings to put in place further restrictions.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/News...rg_010709.html

Many of the state fishing commissions have an automatic Email system to alert you of up coming meeting and when there looking for public input. If you can't make the meetings write a letter. The sport fishing community is huge and when you throw in the tackle companies and boat manufactures we could have a real say. Instead a much small commericial fishery group has to much say.

[Canalman]

I think you all are misunderstanding the intent of what I am saying.

If it took a bus, I might consider trying. But if you look at the fact that it takes 4000 crowbars and 10000000000 pounds of dynamite to get the average recreational angler off his ass to even show up at a meeting (and lately to even voice his or her opinion on a pressing issue online!), the bus and the "storm" are used more in the metaphorical sense. I am trying to encourage people to get involved in something. But all I hear is Clammer poo-pooing it "it's too hard, I'm too tired" and sadly, that is the voice of the New England recreational angler. Then you hear Sea Dangles, saying "Nope it ain't like that, they don't all use pogies." As if that somehow makes my point invalid and leaves the "X" number of pogies killed as OK. Then we hear the overwhelming voices that say that stopping the commercial season will have "no effect" we all know that is not true... but it's EASY. And that's what we all want easy. Easy so we can bitch later about it and type angrily at each other, easy so someone else can do it, easy because it's a lost cause. And it is a lost cause if you all stay home to watch rerruns of SVU or House on the nights of these meetings.

So by all means, sit at home and brood, but don't ever talk about saving the bait or the bass again if you're not willing to do something about it. Because that just makes you look like an idiot.

I'll see you at the Plymouth Meeting, because that's the one that is the easiest one for me to get to.

[BasicPatrick]

[QUOTE=MikeToole;658818]If you look at what is happening in Area 1A right now there will be no herring fishing from 1/1/09 through 5/30/09. Much of this is due to a write in campaign by sport fisherman. There are on going meetings to put in place further restrictions.
QUOTE]

As one of the guys in that bar in Maine (founding members of CHOIR Coalition) I think it is only fair to say that Mike, you are correct it was a letter writing campaing that started the effort but also we can not forget that the effort was made up of responsible commerical fishers, moderate enviros and recretional leaders that joined to get that effort that continues today (see my action alert from today) off the ground.

I just wanted to say thanks Mike for telling peeps it was a grass roots effort and yes we can make changes when done right...by the way it is dozens of hearings and waiting all day for 15 minute sections of a meeting that get's it done. It is not an overwhelming show of force but a steady reliable ready to roll into action whenever called effort that succeeds in fisheries management.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Canalman

oooh and not to mention the tens of thousands of pogies that the commerical fleet kills and rigs daily for live, chunk and yo-yo baits. Now what's your next move?

Dave, this is the only post I was responding to,don't try to make it what it isn't. If you wish to make a valid point perhaps you would be better served by not using exaggeration or metaphors,rather presenting the facts to lend some credibility. The attack on calamma is also uncalled for given the fact he has obviously walked it and talked it before and appears to be saving his strength for fishing. This noble endeavor you are undertaking is obviously important to you, but a calculated strategy may cast it in a more serious light.

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Dave, this is the only post I was responding to,don't try to make it what it isn't. If you wish to make a valid point perhaps you would be better served by not using exaggeration or metaphors,rather presenting the facts to lend some credibility. The attack on calamma is also uncalled for given the fact he has obviously walked it and talked it before and appears to be saving his strength for fishing. This noble endeavor you are undertaking is obviously important to you, but a calculated strategy may cast it in a more serious light.

That was not an attack on Clammer, I was using his words as an example to show what seems to be a consensus among the many that sit back and wait. Clammer is a friend of mine, and all I did was take his words and put them in the mouths of the many who are saying the same things.

When I went to bed last night after submitting that last post, I considered getting back up to delete it because I did write it in the shotgun fashion, more typing, less thinking. But I decided that leaving it up there was better because, it might push someone to go and it might piss a few people off... seems I mostly achieved the latter .

The last thing I want to do is create enemies or spiteful ignorance of an important issue. I brought up the menhanden meeting because so many people were burying the Gamefish Bill in favor of saving the bait. So now we have a chance to make a step toward what was a unified goal -- but it's too hard I guess.

It's obvious that this is going nowhere. So, I guess I'll quit too for now.

I can't, for the life of me, figure out how this became a flame war. It's something we should all want. I guess I'll keep my tongue in my mouth from now on. I should know better anyway.

-Dave

[BassDawg]

DAVE!!

you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, imho.

before everyone goes to beating me up about
my past internet foibles and short time "in the suds",,,,,,,

i am inclined to agree with Dave and his argument,
prima facia, since what he is saying is sincere and VALID!

Clammer wasn't being attacked, it seemed that Canalman
was agreeing with him if you get the giste of Dave's words.
ALSO, exagerration is a fine way of emphasizing a point. BOTH
sides of this debate twist science, manipulate legislation, and
use some form of sensationalism to sway public opinion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

soooooo, i don't fault Dave for having his opinion and sticking to it
while trying to call more than just a few of us to action. haven't WE ALL agreed that getting a busload of us to agree on anything is miraculous at best??? all the more reason for shame, exagerration, guilt, coupla bombs being tossed ~~most anything short of gunpoint~~ to get a large number of us MOVING towards a common goal.

whether his opinion is based in fact, or IS somehwat exagerrated to
wake someof us UP and get our bums off of our couches, is of little
or no consequence to me when the MAIN OBJECTIVE that i believe
he is shooting for is to promote INVOLVEMENT!!!

this problem that faces our fishery is a multi-faceted and prolonged process that WILL take a progression of wins and losses to arrive at the ultimate GOAL of resolving to do what is best for forage, species, AND estuary. BUT, what is undeniably TRUE is that we must remain resolute and involved with EVERY step of the process. and if tonight COULD start witha BANG??? then has Dave's end justified his means?? in my view, YES!!

amongst several esteemed dissenting opinions,
Dave's task is daunting at best and well worth stepping on a few toesies!!
hope i've not hurt anyone's feelings, and what time and where is the meeting in Plymouth, MA??
i'll sea ya there, CanalDave!!

[DZ]

OK - Now to completely confuse everyone. The asmfc will be holding their annual meeting next week to do stock assessment.
I've attached some interesting documents relating to the Striped Bass and Menhaden issues.

The striped bass are starving because of no menhaden so where are the menhaden? Answer according to one NC study: Being eaten by the striped bass.

Very interesting and very complex. The asmfc has one tough problem to figuere out.

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by DZ

OK - Now to completely confuse everyone. The asmfc will be holding their annual meeting next week to do stock assessment.
I've attached some interesting documents relating to the Striped Bass and Menhaden issues.

The striped bass are starving because of no menhaden so where are the menhaden? Answer according to one NC study: Being eaten by the striped bass.

Very interesting and very complex. The asmfc has one tough problem to figuere out.

Thank You, DZ

for bringing those minutes to our fingertips.
still perusing the info, but it is rather enlightening.

nice to see that the board does listen to the audience, and
that it does include the people in attendance of their meetings.

so we should be putting together a bus for FEB 2, eh??
how expensive can it be and several voices would be better than one, NO?


FIX the FORAGE!!! sounds like a sweet battle cry to me.
ONE @ 36", ZERO for the COMMies!!!


the second one is tongue in cheek,,,,,,,,,,,
thanks again, DZ, hope to sea ya this w/e.

[WoodyCT]

[QUOTE=DZ;659120]
The striped bass are starving because of no menhaden so where are the menhaden? Answer according to one NC study: Being eaten by the striped bass. QUOTE]

Sounds like politics as usual DZ. Russell shed quite a bit of light on how politics forced the hand of Maryland biologists working on the issues the fish face in C. Bay.

I'd like to know who funded the study that claims the starving bass are eating themselves out of house and home while Omega goes about raping the resource.

Jon