Things Learned

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Lesson leaned= flat water with wind at your back is good, don't believe what you read in the books about needing white water and all that crap to catch fish. I used to boat fish alot on the outer cape and noticed many, many nights the fish would be just out of range for the surf guys unless there was a strong SW wind..

that is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts. I usually don't comment on stuff like that as my pail of Preparation H supply is dwindling but i do resent posts that are misleading. I think white water helps me in a lot of ways but it certainly not the only way to catch fish. If that is true, we'd have a hard time in the fall with winds in our back for weeks at the time

[Zeno]

one thing that surprised the hell of me was just how good were 9 inch Tsunami shads in the inlets. I wish I knew this before I wrote what I did but better late then never
Another thing that I learned,even though I have had this feeling about this for years.............even though I had most success with "numbers" when a wind was strong in my face the better fish almost always came on calm conditions and wind in my back.

[Clogston29]

sometimes a fast retrieve is better, even at night

you always hear and read stuff like "go a slow as you can, and then go slower"

slow is good most of the time, but in the right conditions, fast can really slay them

[Mr. Krinkle]

Not to horse a big fish with a tight drag. I lost a nice fish on a jetty one night this year because I didn't let it run and tire out, I was so concerened with getting it to the rocks. When the fish turned to go around the other side of the jetty I started to tug on it to turn it back my way and pulled the lure right out of its mouth. My friend looked at me and said "how tight is your friggin drag?" I said to him "I always fish with a tight drag." He simply replied "it just cost you a 40!"

[steve]

What Back beach and Zeno said about wind is 100% true. I am definitley fishing the shads more this season. They are deadly in current!

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by steve

What Back beach and Zeno said about wind is 100% true.

Back Beach and Z ,,, apples and oranges . I believe BB's main squeeze is the canal (world of its own ) and Z's main squeeze is open beaches .. I fish both .. On the beaches I like the 1st day of a front coming in with the wind in my face . The more miserable and harder to cast will soon be forgotten with the hook up of good fish . I've done this multible times over many years ,, not just once. I consider the Canal its own world , somewhat sheltered with alternating east, west currents . Cape ,,mainland side,, fish are caught on both,, and if you don't like the wind in your face go over the other side and it will be on your back . I don't believe its a factor blowing fish in, as much as open beaches. I highly respect both ,,but don't think Z and BB should be comparing notes . I'm 99% shore guy .. I don't think shore and boat guys can relate experiences either.. imho

[2na]

Zeno, could you clarify as to what you mean by stating that BB's input that 'flat water with wind at your back is good, don't believe what you read in the books about needing white water ' and 'I used to boat fish alot on the outer cape and noticed many, many nights the fish would be just out of range for the surf guys unless there was a strong SW wind' 'is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts'. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I happen to strongly agree with both of these points. I have also found that you don't need white water (white water is a very good thing, but not needed) and I have found that flat water with the wind at your back is good, especially on the back beach - it is one of my favorite conditions (and if you are not familiar with the back beach, sw is at your back in most spots). I've learned to take advantage of gaining even more distance in such conditions by tying up some larger than normal dressed hooks just for those times - they act like a kite. And back before seal when you could flip eels the extra distance of a strong wind at your back made a big difference in reaching fish/covering more water. As far as his statement regarding the fish being just out of range, over the years I have worked hard at lengthening my casting distance to get to these just out of distance fish. One of my favorite tricks to get that extra distance is to tie on a 3 oz bank sinker trailing a fly and letting it rip - always good for an extra 30 yards. In a place where distance is king and no one else can reach that far, your offering is the only game in town. This is also why over the last 5 years or so we have seen the proliferation of the kayak bait droppers up near Race Point. If you are not familiar, these guys kayak bait out a couple hundred yards to reach the fish, drop it, return to shore and put the rod in a sand spike - and they do well. This tactic illustrates BB's point - these fish are out of reach for a surfcast, but still relatively close to the beach.

Would you be kind enough to explain why you feel his statement is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts? I'd be interested in your point of view because I believe his assessments to be accurate, and if I'm missing something I would like to be enlightened.

The one thing that I've learned about fishing for striped bass over the years is the importance of asking questions of other fishermen. I was fortunate enough to have one of the late old timers take me under his wing when I first got on the beach, and the knowledge he had about conditions, situations and history was astounding. If I didn't understand why or why not something was happening I could always ask him about it.

The second most important thing I've learned is to know a few areas close to home very very well rather than covering large areas in search of.

[MAKAI]

Originally Posted by 2na

Zeno, could you clarify as to what you mean by stating that BB's input that 'flat water with wind at your back is good, don't believe what you read in the books about needing white water ' and 'I used to boat fish alot on the outer cape and noticed many, many nights the fish would be just out of range for the surf guys unless there was a strong SW wind' 'is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts'. I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I happen to strongly agree with both of these points. I have also found that you don't need white water (white water is a very good thing, but not needed) and I have found that flat water with the wind at your back is good, especially on the back beach - it is one of my favorite conditions (and if you are not familiar with the back beach, sw is at your back in most spots). I've learned to take advantage of gaining even more distance in such conditions by tying up some larger than normal dressed hooks just for those times - they act like a kite. And back before seal when you could flip eels the extra distance of a strong wind at your back made a big difference in reaching fish/covering more water. As far as his statement regarding the fish being just out of range, over the years I have worked hard at lengthening my casting distance to get to these just out of distance fish. One of my favorite tricks to get that extra distance is to tie on a 3 oz bank sinker trailing a fly and letting it rip - always good for an extra 30 yards. In a place where distance is king and no one else can reach that far, your offering is the only game in town. This is also why over the last 5 years or so we have seen the proliferation of the kayak bait droppers up near Race Point. If you are not familiar, these guys kayak bait out a couple hundred yards to reach the fish, drop it, return to shore and put the rod in a sand spike - and they do well. This tactic illustrates BB's point - these fish are out of reach for a surfcast, but still relatively close to the beach.

Would you be kind enough to explain why you feel his statement is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts? I'd be interested in your point of view because I believe his assessments to be accurate, and if I'm missing something I would like to be enlightened.

The one thing that I've learned about fishing for striped bass over the years is the importance of asking questions of other fishermen. I was fortunate enough to have one of the late old timers take me under his wing when I first got on the beach, and the knowledge he had about conditions, situations and history was astounding. If I didn't understand why or why not something was happening I could always ask him about it.

The second most important thing I've learned is to know a few areas close to home very very well rather than covering large areas in search of.

Hey I know who started that kayak thing and boy is he sorry.

[2na]

that's what is called the law of unintended consequences, Bobby. And don't flatter yourself, someone else would lowered themselves to it before long.

[bart]

one thing i learned is that i'm a lot weirder than most 25 yr olds...

[Joe]

Originally Posted by bart

one thing i learned is that i'm a lot weirder than most 25 yr olds...

Another progressive disease.

[bart]

Originally Posted by Joe

Another progressive disease.

tell me about it. like i need any other issues

[bassballer]

Originally Posted by bart

one thing i learned is that i'm a lot weirder than most 25 yr olds...

My girlfreind tells me the same thing.

[snake slinger]

the most important thing i learned from puting my time in is you have to put your time in!

[bonefishdick]

The one thing I learned from reading all of the posts so far is I really do know a lot about fishing for strippers. ( That was a Joke)

The most important thing I have learned and what I think we all learn someday if we haven't learned it yet is when we think we have it all figured out, the fish prove you wrong time and time again.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Zeno

that is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts. I usually don't comment on stuff like that as my pail of Preparation H supply is dwindling but i do resent posts that are misleading. I think white water helps me in a lot of ways but it certainly not the only way to catch fish. If that is true, we'd have a hard time in the fall with winds in our back for weeks at the time

Z,

My post wasn't a misrepresentation/misleading. Its what I've experienced from fishing the outer cape,RI, and canal for many years. I fish eels alot and wind at your back is the way to go. An no, you don't need white water by any means, either. In some places its(white water) great to have, like Race Point, but most other places I've fished its just not needed. I stand on my opinion 100%.

Alot of publications/books, etc. imply white water is needed and little heed is paid to fishing the flat water. I know you recently put out a couple books, but I haven't read either of them. My "crap" comment certainly wasn't an admonition of your work, but more a criticism of a thought process people sometimes employ, regardless of where its printed.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

my biggest lesson this year was "loose lips sink ships'' and don't believe any thing you read about fishing.

[likwid]

Fishermen in general are dumber than the fish they pursue.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Z,

My post wasn't a misrepresentation/misleading. Its what I've experienced from fishing the outer cape,RI, and canal for many years. I fish eels alot and wind at your back is the way to go. An no, you don't need white water by any means, either. In some places its(white water) great to have, like Race Point, but most other places I've fished its just not needed. I stand on my opinion 100%.

Alot of publications/books, etc. imply white water is needed and little heed is paid to fishing the flat water. I know you recently put out a couple books, but I haven't read either of them. My "crap" comment certainly wasn't an admonition of your work, but more a criticism of a thought process people sometimes employ, regardless of where its printed.

If that is the case then I owe you a sincerest apology.I (like an idiot) assumed that you were talking about a white water chapter in my book. Please except my sincerest apologies. I'll even send you both of of my of my books,free of charge if you PM me your address. Sometimes i read into things that I shouldn't and end up with an egg on my face not the first time and probably not the last

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Zeno

If that is the case then I owe you a sincerest apology.I (like an idiot) assumed that you were talking about a white water chapter in my book. Please except my sincerest apologies. I'll even send you both of of my of my books,free of charge if you PM me your address. Sometimes i read into things that I shouldn't and end up with an egg on my face not the first time and probably not the last

Z,

Not a problem and no restitution/apology necessary, but I appreciate the gesture. After I read my post a few times its easy to see how it could be misleading. Believe me, no offense was taken on my part. Good, constructive debate is always welcome.

[LeCounts1099]

Z is a great guy who cares how he's perceived! (rare these days)... Don't think anyone here really took offense Z! We love reading your take on things!


I CAN tell you though, back from my Outer Cape years... during stable Fall fronts featuring mild temps & Southerly/ SW erly or even cold NW erly winds-- during those periods in Sept. & Oct. (pre- Seals ) ... I made sure to head to the Cape & would stay the duration!


Once the next bad- weather Front was arriving... & the wind went heavy SE then E / NE ... that's the time I'd be driving down to New London to catch the earliest Ferry back to L.I. & M.!


Different (weather/ wind) conditions definitely affect different areas/ surf- fisheries differently!

[BigFish]

I was offended! Z....I will PM my address...if you could just personalize both books with...."To my dear fishing buddy Larry"!
Then I will forgive you!

[Zeno]

You better have some "extra" plugs when we meet at Cutty in few months...you'll be going home a lot "lighter"

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Zeno

that is an exaggeration and misrepresentation of facts. I usually don't comment on stuff like that as my pail of Preparation H supply is dwindling but i do resent posts that are misleading. I think white water helps me in a lot of ways but it certainly not the only way to catch fish. If that is true, we'd have a hard time in the fall with winds in our back for weeks at the time

No it's not! It's just Mike's opinion....which he is entitled to.

[NIB]

I like all wind..Off shore winds can lead to good fishing.It depends on the bait present and the time of the year also.Wind will also effect water temps..There's more to this than most realize..
Hard off shore winds will bring a upwelling here in NJ. That is all the warm water blows off the top.It gets replaced with cooler water from the bottom.This can be good late spring early summer as the temps creep into the High 60's. S-SW will even lower the temps some more.As it pulls water from the deeper regions in my area..Water temps near 58-60 degree's are the catalyst for the big fish blitzes here in NJ.
We'll have the bait for days/weeks and little to no action from the beach.Then the wind turns hard S or SW and all hell will break loose.Warmer water slows their metabolism and they don't need to eat as much.They will sit on the rockpiles off shore and pick.When the temp's get to their optimum range they can't eat enough..
It is my belief that a heavy off shore wind will also pin the bait against the beach.As they can not deal with the unpleasant conditions in the sawtooth on the horizon..Especially your smaller baits like peanuts mullet herring and sand eels.A good day of this and they run out of room and the bass know it.

[BigFish]

I have learned that it sucks to try to micro manage fishing to the point of rocket science.......and its not that there is no merit to it as many of you are great at it.....I just am not! So.....I try my best to pick my spots and hit them when I feel the best opportunity will present itself but mostly.......to have fun. Alot of the time, spot depending, I will go fishing there just because I want to go.....it may not even be the best tide or time but I just want to go wet a line and clear my head! More often than not those times are the best times!

Most importantly I have learned that everyone has their own theories and that nothing is etched in stone as to why, when and where! Also I have learned not to chase yesterdays fishing.....it more often than not does not show up for a repeat performance!

[NIB]

Fishing can be many things to many different people.
It's all good..

[striprman]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I have learned that it sucks to try to micro manage fishing to the point of rocket science.......and its not that there is no merit to it as many of you are great at it.....I just am not! So.....I try my best to pick my spots and hit them when I feel the best opportunity will present itself but mostly.......to have fun. Alot of the time, spot depending, I will go fishing there just because I want to go.....it may not even be the best tide or time but I just want to go wet a line and clear my head! More often than not those times are the best times!

Most importantly I have learned that everyone has their own theories and that nothing is etched in stone as to why, when and where! Also I have learned not to chase yesterdays fishing.....it more often than not does not show up for a repeat performance!

That sounds right