Waterboarding

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

What is the world coming to? She has been very outspoken about prosecuting Bush Administration members for torture. Now, Nancy Pelosi approves of waterboarding?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120801664.html

This is all very confusing.

Nah, it's not confusing at all. Just displays the point that Pelosi is a complete, unethical moron. She demonstrates one opinion behind closed doors because the public won't see it, yet was outspoken about prosecuting the Bush Administration because it was the cool thing to do.

Corrupt pieces of Sh&t. I'm going fishing....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Corrupt pieces of Sh&t. I'm going fishing....

good luck buddy, hope ya get a big one

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

good luck buddy, hope ya get a big one

Thanks. Hooked into two shad tonight. Came close to landing one, but the ride is all that really matters.

Man those fish are a blast on ultra-light freshwater gear.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Nah, it's not confusing at all. Just displays the point that Pelosi is a complete, unethical moron. She demonstrates one opinion behind closed doors because the public won't see it, yet was outspoken about prosecuting the Bush Administration because it was the cool thing to do.

Corrupt pieces of Sh&t. I'm going fishing....

That's why I like you, JD. You don't blindly stick to the party affiliation bs and can recognize that there idiots on both sides. Good luck with the fishing. Let me know if you have any luck.

[spence]

Johnny, you really stepped in it when you said this was a legal and not ethical issue...wow, I thought you were smarter than that.

As for Scott's running non sequitor, last time I checked how we train our troops and how we handle prisoners wasn't covered under the same jurisdiction. That is unless Scott thinks of our troops as potential terrorists

As for Pelosi, there seems to be a lot of questions as to what they were actually briefed on. I'd wager they didn't do their homework and simply went along with what was being proposed considering this was right after 9/11. Not that they could have done anything about it, in these secret briefings they can't even take notes to have an aid do a detailed legal review.

That being said, assuming they were briefed, select members of Congress are certainly responsible for either not providing oversight or being hypocritical.

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

Johnny, you really stepped in it when you said this was a legal and not ethical issue...wow, I thought you were smarter than that.

Again, this is where the misconception lies... I've stated over and over again that my opinion with regards to anyone being prosecuted lies in the legal aspect of things. The entire issue at hand lies within the legality or illegality of waterboarding being ordered. Regardless of the issue being moral or not, people cannot be tried for immoral acts if those acts were within the bounds of the law.

However, it is my belief that the actions were outside of our domestic law and also outside international law, and as such, people must be held accountable for the actions that took place.

When I state that "the waterboarding issue has never been a moral one", it is with regards to the discussions of Bush Administration officials being brought up on charges.

While I've never been explicit in my moral opinion of waterboarding, reading my first few posts in this thread should yield a sufficient understanding of where my opinion lies.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

As for Pelosi, there seems to be a lot of questions as to what they were actually briefed on. I'd wager they didn't do their homework and simply went along with what was being proposed considering this was right after 9/11. Not that they could have done anything about it, in these secret briefings they can't even take notes to have an aid do a detailed legal review.

That being said, assuming they were briefed, select members of Congress are certainly responsible for either not providing oversight or being hypocritical.

-spence

I listened to a couple of Pelosi's public statements regarding her knowledge of the matter. Now, I am only speculating but, the way she articulates some of the things she has said and the way she punctuated certain statements gave me the impression she was overcompensating. Listening to a few minutes of her talking about the matter made me feel like she knew exactly what was going on and is now trying to backtrack on the actual events to keep her nose clean.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Listening to a few minutes of her talking about the matter made me feel like she knew exactly what was going on and is now trying to backtrack on the actual events to keep her nose clean.

It sounds like they were briefed but also told the practice was legal. Considering the situation I'd be surprised if anyone in a top secret briefing would call their briefer a liar to voice moral concerns unless they had good reason.

That being said, it's at best a foggy situation. I don't think it's a big deal for Pelosi unless they tried to prosecute someone and then the potential for hypocrisy would be a big issue.

What's the most interesting thing here is why Bush's lawyers didn't do any homework before they wrote their briefs claiming the President didn't have to worry about legal issues? It seems like they were more concerned with giving Bush what he wanted rather than practicing good law.

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

What's the most interesting thing here is why Bush's lawyers didn't do any homework before they wrote their briefs claiming the President didn't have to worry about legal issues? It seems like they were more concerned with giving Bush what he wanted rather than practicing good law.

-spence

Considering the resume prospects of being a legal adviser for the President, it doesn't surprise me one bit.

[likwid]

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv...0030323-1.html

THE PRESIDENT: I've been briefed, I'm constantly briefed by the Pentagon and through the National Security Office. I would -- I don't know all the details yet. I do know that we expect them to be treated humanely, just like we'll treat any prisoners of theirs that we capture humanely.