Oh flock...

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

There is a Huge difference between us and them.......

Are you a complete idiot, or is tonight just a bad night?

-spence

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by spence

Are you a complete idiot, or is tonight just a bad night?

-spence

Maybe in your eyes.....

What ever we did or do to those involved is perfectly fine with me, if it saved or saves live in the US....

You wanna jump on the "screw America band wagon" every chance you get... They did what they did, and we did what we had to.. ...

So is today, Spence's day to be a total "ass"? or are you having a bad day?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

You wanna jump on the "screw America band wagon" every chance you get...

That's just the lamest sort of BS there is. A weak cop out to avoid a little thought.

Force you to admit your %$%$%$%$ might stink the least bit and you just wrap the flag tighter around your own neck.

These images were created and published for YOUR CONSUMPTION in the hope that you might compromise what you claim to value most.

And you still don't see it.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

These images were created and published for YOUR CONSUMPTION in the hope that you might compromise what you claim to value most.-spence

You have stated something to the effect that you are not interested in what was working 70 years ago but what works for today. I don't know what TODAYS American values most, or claims to value most, but the founding of this country was based on the proposition that what was most valuable was life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life was risked and lost for that proposition, and an attitude of "don't tread on me" was born of it. I don't know what the murderers of Nick Berg thought Americans value most, but the guy who did the cutting found that he stepped on the wrong folks. I don't know if he was some keen philosopher that had insight into the American psyche. Maybe, he thought all Americans are like you, and he published his horror in hopes that SUCH Americans would compromise whatever you all claim to value most. Obviously, since you don't approve of the CIA's methods, he didn't succeed. Most assuredly, he didn't scare us away because he didn't understand what the OTHER Americans value most.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You have stated something to the effect that you are not interested in what was working 70 years ago but what works for today.

Over my head; what do you mean "not interested in what was working 70 years ago?".

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Over my head; what do you mean "not interested in what was working 70 years ago?".

Sorry, I should have made it clear that in this sentence I was referring to one of Spence's responses in another thread.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You have stated something to the effect that you are not interested in what was working 70 years ago but what works for today. I don't know what TODAYS American values most, or claims to value most, but the founding of this country was based on the proposition that what was most valuable was life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life was risked and lost for that proposition, and an attitude of "don't tread on me" was born of it. I don't know what the murderers of Nick Berg thought Americans value most, but the guy who did the cutting found that he stepped on the wrong folks. I don't know if he was some keen philosopher that had insight into the American psyche. Maybe, he thought all Americans are like you, and he published his horror in hopes that SUCH Americans would compromise whatever you all claim to value most. Obviously, since you don't approve of the CIA's methods, he didn't succeed. Most assuredly, he didn't scare us away because he didn't understand what the OTHER Americans value most.

What I find so interesting is that those who claim to hold their principals highest (i.e. the rule of law) also seem to be the first to cast them aside when it suits their interests.

We can't defend our freedoms if we have not foundation from which to fight. Always believing that the ends justify the means makes us just like them...

Re posting graphic images, in the hopes of influencing action without thought - is doing just that.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

What I find so interesting is that those who claim to hold their principals highest (i.e. the rule of law) also seem to be the first to cast them aside when it suits their interests.

We can't defend our freedoms if we have not foundation from which to fight. Always believing that the ends justify the means makes us just like them...

Re posting graphic images, in the hopes of influencing action without thought - is doing just that.

-spence

we can't defend our freedom if whiners like you get weak-kneed and wee weed because an interrogator yelled at a mass murdering terrorist...

is it against the law to yell at or threaten mass murdering terrorists?

if you can's see the difference and want to continue to draw some moral equivalence to the way that we conduct ourselves and the way that the radical islamists conduct themselves you are simply delusional...what's the matter with you?

[detbuch]

[QUOTE=spence;707437]What I find so interesting is that those who claim to hold their principals highest (i.e. the rule of law) also seem to be the first to cast them aside when it suits their interests.

I find interesting the construction "those who . . . also". I have no idea nor evidence that the CIA interrogators hold the rule of law as their highest principle. On the contrary, they may hold the security of the citizens of this country as a higher principle. Nor do I find evidence that, if they have cast any principles aside, that they are the first to do it. Nor do I find any evidence that the vast majority of U.S. citizens, nor any large number of citizens of this planet, hold the rule of law as their highest principle.

We can't defend our freedoms if we have not foundation from which to fight. Always believing that the ends justify the means makes us just like them...-spence[QUOTE]

We do not "always" believe that the ends justify the means, but at some critical times, they very well may. If we do not believe our way of life, our citizenry, are no more valuable to us than those who would destroy us, if we are not willing to defend our existence with the utmost ferocity, our world may well not end with a bang, but a whimper.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by detbuch

We do not "always" believe that the ends justify the means, but at some critical times, they very well may.

...Like smashing an inordinately hot stripper after you've promised honor and obey your wife.

Speaks to the slippery slope the above statement has stepped out upon.

Spence brings up some good points. He has used good analogies to further my understanding; the aforementioned above being one of them.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

That's just the lamest sort of BS there is. A weak cop out to avoid a little thought.

Force you to admit your %$%$%$%$ might stink the least bit and you just wrap the flag tighter around your own neck.

These images were created and published for YOUR CONSUMPTION in the hope that you might compromise what you claim to value most.

And you still don't see it.

-spence

you are making absolutely no sense, but this is fun...Spence Alynski, why do you hate America so much, you clearly sympathize with the terrorists, thanks for showing YOUR true colors ????

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are making absolutely no sense, but this is fun...Spence Alynski, why do you hate America so much, you clearly sympathize with the terrorists, thanks for showing YOUR true colors ????

and why do you hate America so much that you'll throw 230 years of having the moral high ground away to be like a bunch of POS terrorists.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

and why do you hate America so much that you'll throw 230 years of having the moral high ground away to be like a bunch of POS terrorists.

????? I believe the bar has been moved to accomodate a political attack for advantage from the radical left on this issue...read a little history beginning with George Washington, I think you'll find "threatening terrorists" to be fairly a fairly mundane incident in our past 230 years...which makes the reaction by some completely hilarious and disturbing at the same time...nothing more that a carrot for the whackos...

[justplugit]

Liberals, in general, will take the high ground when it suits their
political agenda, but when it comes to late term abortion it's OK to take a life.

Will it be allowed to sneak up behind a captured terrorist and yell Boo?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

and why do you hate America so much that you'll throw 230 years of having the moral high ground away to be like a bunch of POS terrorists.

I thought we had already lost the moral high ground when Bush invaded Iraq. Actually, the left has been saying for at least 40 years that we are morally inferior because of how we treat the poor, minorities, homosexuals, illegals (oops--undocumented aliens), the incarcerated, the uninsured, the hypocrisy of the religious right and Fox news, and right-wing radio, and our damned sense of exceptionalism. It's news to me that because of these CIA interrogations we are NOW in danger of losing the moral high ground.