MSBA Action Alert--Stripers Forever Bill Could Pass- Only One Hearing--This Thursday

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

It's gone, now we might have to read Nebe's posts. That does not imply after reading we have to take him seriously.

I don't really care if someone takes me seriously or not. The fact of the matter is that the great rebound of the striped bass population is over. The bubble has burst so to speak and the numbers will continue to go down until the rules are changed.
Before the last crash there were many who were completely opposed to the moratorium stating the fact that they would loose money.... Either from selling the fish or from fishing charters. The people who are profiting now are doing so by the sacrifices everyone made by protecting the fish to allow a sustainable comeback. So I ask those who are opposed... Have you heard the saying " those who have not learned from history are doomed to repeat it"?????
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[sokinwet]

The fact of the matter is.... that that prior to the moritorium there was no daily limit and the size limit was 16"....and the fact of the matter is ...that neither you or SF has the expertise to deal with fisheries management. Why don't you "I know better than everyone else cause I can't catch a bass" faux fisheries managers either let those who have the job of managing do it....or go apply for the job yourselves. Maybe I'm wrong...you must have the education, expertise, etc to do the job because.....the fact of the matter is you sure as hell are acting like you do.

[BigFish]

Eben for President! I have to agree with him! I could care less about the commercials......its all take, take, take......kill, kill, kill! I am all for going back to 1 fish per day at 34 inches! No commercial take!

Eben I could not agree with you more!

[Adam_777]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Eben for President! I have to agree with him! I could care less about the commercials......its all take, take, take......kill, kill, kill! I am all for going back to 1 fish per day at 34 inches! No commercial take!

Eben I could not agree with you more!

+1 and bring back the pic in your sig

[big jay]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

I find it interesting that if you don't go you have no say.

A fish that is three to six years old probably does lay any eggs. But fish between 26"s and 40"s sure do. So if someone takes a 25 inch fish home for dinner that hasn't matured sexually, how can that be worse than taking home a 39"er that lays a gazillion eggs that you wont be able to take home if this bill passes.

The problem with your scenario is the 25" never had an opportunity to spawn before it was harvested, whereas the 39" fish spawned several times before it was taken.

[BasicPatrick]

[QUOTE=Swimmer;738355]I find it interesting that if you don't go you have no say."

Frank...It is Stripers Forever that is working to eliminate your input on this subject.

If the proponents of stricter regulations actually did the footwork, developed and presented the science and used the current system then we might actually have the series of hearings and vigorous public debate that many of us are yearning for including the MSBA Leadership.

Unfortunately, Stripers Forever took a grant from some hard core enviros...hired some lobbyists and influenced Rep. Matt Patrick (who happens to be Brad Burns of Stripers Forever's Summer Time Neighbor) to introduce the bill.

Does anyone think that Matt Patrick's refusal to meeet with the Falmouth Fishermen's Assn and the Falmouth Rod & Gun Club is any indicator that this is not an open public process.

One hearing in the middle of a weekday is the Stripers Forever way...the "system" many here complain about has hearings from 5-7pm in multiple locations iwth at least 30 days notice...required by law...not manipulated by Stripers forever high paid enviro attorney's.

If you want a say on this bill...tell the legislature to kick the subject to DMF and the MA Marine Fisheries Commission where it belongs. Your remember the last time we had a S-B hearing...that was the process then..and at least we got to speak and be a part of the process.

Hope to see you there on Thursday

[MAKAI]

This all may be a mute point anyway,I noticed the state of Conn. DPH in 2009 recommended women and children avoid eating any striped bass at all. Could there possibly be a time soon, when bass is deemed not fit for consumption.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Who cares what side of this bill you are on...those who do not show up get no say anyway...the real question is who is going to the hearing or is this all just some good old fashioned north east winter wind

I can't be there because of an appointment and in this economy , I have my priorities, but I'd like to think that an email will help to get some say. so if your statement is true, maybe I just won't bother to email then. I can accept the outcome. I wonder if there will be many commercial fishermen there.

[sokinwet]

If you can't be there call or email!!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Frank...It is Stripers Forever that is working to eliminate your input on this subject.

If the proponents of stricter regulations actually did the footwork, developed and presented the science and used the current system then we might actually have the series of hearings and vigorous public debate that many of us are yearning for including the MSBA Leadership.

....

One hearing in the middle of a weekday is the Stripers Forever way...the "system" many here complain about has hearings from 5-7pm in multiple locations iwth at least 30 days notice...required by law...not manipulated by Stripers forever high paid enviro attorney's.

You've summed up exactly the cause of many people's frustration - very little getting done because of the obstacle course that is set up to push new policy.

Having worked and sat through dozens of public hearings/meetings/conferences through my work, I've witnessed that very little ever gets accomplished from them aside from delaying action or a result of complete inaction. Every school teacher, retiree, college student, home-maker, engineer, and businessman that shows up is an "expert" on the subject and thinks they have detailed knowledge. For example, the Westwood Station development has taken over a year longer than expected due to needing a hearing before just about every decision could be finalized.

Why exactly should the average fishermen have a say? Unless you have performed detailed research or reviewed multiple competent studies, how can an informed opinion be presented? Fisherman are already somewhat dismissed by the enviros for being selfish and destructive - presenting unsupported misinformation will only give them more ammo. SF is highly organized, and as such, more than likely has the qualifying materials (biased or not) to support there policy push. Unfortunately, "I have been fishing for 30 years" isn't perceived as credibility at these hearings.

If recreational fishermen truly want more control over fisheries management, then they need to support the people/groups that can perform the research necessary to support/contradict regulations and not let groups like SF or the commercial fishing industry continue dumping money until they get what they want.

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by big jay

The problem with your scenario is the 25" never had an opportunity to spawn before it was harvested, whereas the 39" fish spawned several times before it was taken.

it's simple economics... a 25" fish still has a chance to be eaten by Seals, tuna and other sea going fish eaters... a 39" fish is getting up there in size... good chance it wont be eaten by a seal or tuna.. also a good chance that it will live until it dies of old age or is eaten or mis handled by a fisherman...and to top it off the small ones are better eating with less waste when processed.

[sokinwet]

"I could care less about the commercials"

Funny I have been looking to pick up some tuna poppers...figured I'd spend my money locally. Suddenly changed my mind...I could care less about local plug makers.

[BigFish]

Its ok...I don't make tuna poppers! I also do not curb my opinions to cater to folks! I have an opinion and I do not keep it in check because I might be afraid of hurting business! There are plenty of other builders out there.....don't be afraid to use them!

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

it's simple economics... a 25" fish still has a chance to be eaten by Seals, tuna and other sea going fish eaters... a 39" fish is getting up there in size... good chance it wont be eaten by a seal or tuna.. also a good chance that it will live until it dies of old age or is eaten or mis handled by a fisherman...and to top it off the small ones are better eating with less waste when processed.

I see this as an arguement to leave the little fish alone...bottom line is that the little fish are roughly 75 % males that do get hammerred by seals etc (the percentage is debateable but it is definatey way aboe half male to half female)...to get the year class numbers over the past dozen years we have needed this ratio of males to females

This slot will kill a lot of those little fish and the seals etc will still eat what they eat rducing the mumbers even further. If the little fish are devastated so will the ratio of males to females causing future year classes to drop even mor without spawning...I don't state this...fisheries scientists state this

The speculation and guess work science being thrown around this board is the same that was done to Bob Pond when all the so called "high liners" were laughing at him and he was preaching the use of science.

Good science is not why SF is going to the legislature...the fact is they just can't get their junk by ASMFC.

For the record and because I am the only one on this board that actually has been attending the recent ASMFC Striped Bass meetings, there are multiple concerns with the SB stock and the scientists are at the end process of the analysis of certain problems as we..science based solutions that look like they will work work will be enacted as is written in the managment plan.

We need to set limits according to science and not guess work no matter how good pounding our chest makes any of us feel. Its nice to pound your chest and demand this or that but they did that with the slot limit in Maine and now a few years later they have no fish left. They kill all the bait and all the little fish on their coast and wonder what happenned. Sure let's blamit on ASMFC...Maine chose to harvest baby stripers not ASMFC.

If you really want to help then donate and support the organizations doing the real work at the places the work is really done

[Clammer]

we all S/B concerned .. @ 1st I didn,t think it had a chance / but now with the backing of this wacked out other group & their issue of disposable lures & etc;
this //if pasted could start a ball rolling that for those that live long enough .......... ya won,t be back @ blue-gill fishing ;
I was going to say Golfing ...but then they will be going against damaging the grass & possiable damage to trees & ponds ;;

WTF /way too far

[sokinwet]

"Its ok...I don't make tuna poppers"
Through wired, wood plugs...I would have thought they would hold up to the tuna abuse...guess not huh!

I certainly don't begrudge anyone their opinion and input...it's when someone tries to shove their opinion down everyone else's throat that I get a little.....upset.

[BigFish]

I expressed my opinion and you took exception to it! I have further opinions about what I do not like about the commercial laws but I doubt you want to hear them! Have enough respect to respect someone's opinion whether you agree with it or not! I do! Then you drag out that other crap about plugs and "I am not gonna buy them from you"...because you don't like my opinion?? What the hell is that all about??!!

I hardly think "voicing" my opinion is "shoving my opinion down anyones throat"?!

[Ake G]

I'm in favor of the bill.

Clearly drastic conservation measures need to be put in place before it's too late. All opposed haven't been paying attention or simply don't care or choose to look beyond their own selfish agendas and what's happening in their own backyard.

Mortality is a huge part of the picture and I'm for any measures taken with a plan to reduce it. Sounds like dropping the two fish per day limit to one and prohibiting commercial harvesting would be a step in the right direction.

Wait until the fishing falls off in MA like it has up here in Maine.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Ake G

Wait until the fishing falls off in MA like it has up here in Maine.

Some attribute that falling off to the slot limit in your state.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

it's simple economics... a 25" fish still has a chance to be eaten by Seals, tuna and other sea going fish eaters... a 39" fish is getting up there in size... good chance it wont be eaten by a seal or tuna.. also a good chance that it will live until it dies of old age or is eaten or mis handled by a fisherman....

Are you serious?

[sokinwet]

BF...respect!!! "I could care less about the commercials" Read your own post before you start to get "high & mighty" with me!

I have not seen one bit of factual info. presented in this post by those opposed to the commercial SB fishery. Just a bunch of IMO's. Informed opinions or factual presentations...hardly...just a lot of "I know better" because I'm a self styled expert that knows more than...everyone I don't agree with.

As far as not buying your plugs...Since we're almost neighbors I have looked at your plugs recently and if you weren't closed for the season I would have already ordered a few as I'd rather support my local, fellow fishermen than send $50 overseas...but I don't give my $$ to PETA, HSUSA, or Stripers "For Us" and I won't be giving my $$ to any business that supports a "political end around" rather than professional fisheries management. Of course...that's just my opinion and like you, I don't curb my opinions either.

[Swimmer]

The bottom line is by the time they get around to having a public get together they have allready made up their collectives minds. I still hope those that support the bill go and get their way. But to be fair we ned to raise the minimum size back to 36" and everyone just gets one feeesh. They never go to a vote unless they no the outcome beforehand. None of the reps want to look like losers.

[BigFish]

Whatever......your entire argument is pretty childish. When you take a discussion and make it personal....I will not entertain such childish antics. I do not think there should be a commercial striper fishery...is there a problem with that? I think you took my comment out of context and took it as a personal attack. We disagree......can't you respectfully disagree?

[big jay]

I'm would be in favor of dropping the catch to one fish @ 28", 34" or 36" -- whatever the science says is the right number to ensure the health of the species.

How anyone thinks the targeting of Baby Bass is going to help the species is absolutely beyond me.
Frankly, anyone taking or advocating the taking of 20" pre-spawn bass ought to be ashamed of themselves.

p.s. - I don't care how good they taste.

[kevinthegood]

when maine went to slot limits, did it help or make things worse ?
i'm confused about this whole thing, i plan on going to the state house to hear both sides, i have a couple of freinds (state reps)on the natural resource commitee, i hope to get their ear before to see what they have to say.
something has to be done before it's to late.

[big jay]

It made it worse.

Maine's mortality numbers went up exponentially, and their fishing went into the toilet.

So now to solve their problem, they want to extend their failed system to Mass -- Great Plan.

[kevinthegood]

i hear ya, taking 20'' fish makes no sense at all,

[sokinwet]

BF- Childish antics...Whatever...I guess when you have no valid arguement other than "IMO" you might as well try to deflect the discussion there. Here's the rub BF...this is very personal to me. I have been commercial fishing for stripers since the 1950's and nothing gets much more personal than someone taking $$ out of your pocket for their own selfish reasons. Now I read your "take,take take...kill, kill,kill" post so I figure you & most of the "anti's" are probably saying I'm just as selfish. Maybe...but here's the difference; I don't have the marine fisheries degree that would qualify me to be making the decisions so I let the pro's (not the pol's) make those decisions. They allow a quota fishery; I'm fishing..they don't, based on actual "best science" management, and I'm not. It's that simple.

"I do not think there should be a commercial striper fishery...is there a problem with that?"
Not at all; again your opinion...but since I don't think you have a PHD in Marine Fisheries, I don't think you are qualified to make that decision for everyone else. I posted somewhere else about the similarities between this SF bill to the Animal Rights agenda driven Question 1 we had shoved down our throats several years back. Big outside $$, fringe science and outright lies, demonize blood thirsty hunters ; then just convince an uneducated public to vote against the professional opinions of DF&W and virtually every other real conservation agency and voila!! We're up to our ears in beaver flooding problems, coyotes are everywhere and if not for the common sense of those making F&G Board appointments, we would have animal rights groups controling our Fish& Game Board. Now I guess an animal rights idiot would say the end justifies the means. Frankly, I can't believe that any sportsman would support this type of political influence peddling.

[BigFish]

Do you possess a PHD in Marine Fisheries? Guess probably not so the fact that you fish commercially for money makes you MORE righteous in your opinion? My feeling is that the stock is overfished by the commercial sector Sokinwet and it needs to change or the stocks will once again be depleted! As was aid earlier "We will be doomed to repeat history". You do not like/respect my opinion because it flies in the face of your opinion so instead of discussing it like a rational person (which.....you obviously are not) you choose to stoop to getting personal and acting like a child by trying to attack what you know of me i.e the fact that I build and sell plugs. Are you going to be there Thursday fighting for what you believe?

[sokinwet]

BF - Unlike you, I realize my opinion is just that...my opinion. " I don't have the marine fisheries degree that would qualify me to be making the decisions so I let the pro's (not the pol's) make those decisions" Guess you didn't really read what I said...not a surprise.

As far as "my" childish, personal attacks...I believe I said I wouldn't be spending my money supporting a business that doesn't give a dam about fellow fisherman! But then again that's just the childish, not very rational side of me coming out...probably hard to understand you being such a stand up guy that would never stoop to personal attacks.

As far as being at the hearing; unfortunately I cannot attend due but be assured that I have contacted my rep and the members of the NR Committee.
PS Would you like me to tell you who your's is in case you feel like doing the same.