bad news for Big O

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

So now it's the tax cuts that led to the deficit? I thought it was the war in Iraq?

You imply my post states that the tax cuts were the sole reason.

Really? Seems as though the Bush tax cuts have contributed significantly to the current economic situation, while also contributing to a massive increase in the national debt under his reign. One major criticism of current Dems is that if they cannot pay for their spending and debt increases significantly, we're in for major issues with inflation and long-term economic problems (which I fully agree with).

...

There are massive costs that come with starting 2 wars, yet Bush pushed tax cuts through in 2001 and again in 2003. He had his war agenda in place and no plan to pay for it. I'll accept the 2001 cuts because of Sept 11 and him campaigning on it, but then to thoroughly plan a case for war in Iraq and push more tax cuts in the same year was reckless. There are so many things that have gone wrong in Iraq that "how were we going to pay for this again?" often is forgotten.

It's similar to the current situation we face with health care and the bailouts. With the agenda the Dems have in place, if they were then to push for tax cuts, there would be no question to the complete financial failure of this country.

Huge debts plus additional expenses and then to decrease receivables from taxes is insane. It is insane today and it was insane during the last administration.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Huge debts plus additional expenses and then to decrease receivables from taxes is insane. It is insane today and it was insane during the last administration.

I figured as a business owner you'd understand that all debts aren't bad. Tax cuts are put in place to get people spending. This increases GNP, which helps offset the lost revenue from the tax cuts. As I mentioned before, cutting government spending also helps offset the lost tax revenue. Tax cuts put more money into the hands of the people who are going to spend it, while throwing stimulus money at big corporations and banks just drains more money from the economy.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

I figured as a business owner you'd understand that all debts aren't bad. Tax cuts are put in place to get people spending. This increases GNP, which helps offset the lost revenue from the tax cuts. As I mentioned before, cutting government spending also helps offset the lost tax revenue. Tax cuts put more money into the hands of the people who are going to spend it, while throwing stimulus money at big corporations and banks just drains more money from the economy.

Again you're putting words into my mouth.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Again you're putting words into my mouth.

he's only trying to help you sound intelligent

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

he's only trying to help you sound intelligent

It's no wonder he doesn't do the same to you then - being so far past the capability of help.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

It's no wonder he doesn't do the same to you then - being so far past the capability of help.

just havin' fun...you love me...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

just havin' fun...you love me...

Of course. What fun would this place be if we couldn't exchange an elbow jab or two once in a while?

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Again you're putting words into my mouth.

How so? You harp on deficits and debt and imply that they're bad. I simply pointed out that not all debt is bad debt. I learned that in college. Of course I only minored in economics in college because the advanced classes were too difficult for me. That's why I switched my major to Poli Sci. No math or real involved thinking required.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

How so? You harp on deficits and debt and imply that they're bad. I simply pointed out that not all debt is bad debt. I learned that in college. Of course I only minored in economics in college because the advanced classes were too difficult for me. That's why I switched my major to Poli Sci. No math or real involved thinking required.

I never stated that all debt is bad, while "I figured as a business owner you'd understand that all debts aren't bad" assumes I did or that I don't understand that taking on *some* debt could be good.

Increasing deficits and debt with no real outlook at how the debts are going to be paid are what caused the collapse of the financial sector and, as I stated earlier, is how the Iraq War/Tax Cuts relationship was a major contributing factor to our current economic state.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I never stated that all debt is bad, while "I figured as a business owner you'd understand that all debts aren't bad" assumes I did or that I don't understand that taking on *some* debt could be good.


Increasing deficits and debt with no real outlook at how the debts are going to be paid are what caused the collapse of the financial sector and, as I stated earlier, is how the Iraq War/Tax Cuts relationship was a major contributing factor to our current economic state.

OK, you didn't come right out and say it, but it was definitely implied when you used words like "insane" and link Bush's economy (which you refer to negatively) with "massive increase of national debt".

You can't have it both ways. And for the record, I think as usual we're not that far apart on our thoughts here. We just have a different way of arriving there.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

OK, you didn't come right out and say it, but it was definitely implied when you used words like "insane" and link Bush's economy (which you refer to negatively) with "massive increase of national debt".

You can't have it both ways. And for the record, I think as usual we're not that far apart on our thoughts here. We just have a different way of arriving there.

I see what you're saying. However, Bush's economy did result in a "massive increase of national debt", but my issue with it was that the debt was racked up with no method in sight for how to pay for it.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Increasing deficits and debt with no real outlook at how the debts are going to be paid are what caused the collapse of the financial sector and, as I stated earlier, is how the Iraq War/Tax Cuts relationship was a major contributing factor to our current economic state.

Wasn't "the economy" doing quite well before the collapse of the financial sector? And wasn't the Government debt as a percentage of GDP, at the time, not historically high? And wasn't the economy that produced high tax revenues partially due to the Bush tax cuts? Wasn't, thus, the Government operating on relatively sound fiscal policy until the financial sector crash (which had nothing to do with tax cuts or the Iraq war)?