Palins Alaska

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

And there is a fundamental difference between us.

I believe he doesn't hate America, you do. we could continually go around.

Context (of the quotes) may have been the wrong word. I need to read them in their entirety I guess is what I meant. The 'chickens come home to roost' comment, it turns out was a direct quote of of former Ambassador to Iraq and Regan cabinet member, not Wrights original idea, and was taken out of context from his sermon. Again, it may not change a thing, that may be the exception, and they may be as racial and %$%$%$%$ty as it sounds, but I try and be critical of what I hear from both sides of the media.

RIJ, I meant what I said. tolerate is the right word

Rockhound, I do enjoy this debate, and I hope my posts are not coming across harsher than I'm intending. My posts tend to do that, unfortunately. You and I don't agree, but you have been very respectful.

"I believe he doesn't hate America, you do. we could continually go around. "

I'm not saying I think he hates America. I'm saying his spiritual mentor, his political mentor, and his wife all dislike this country to varying degrees. Do you agree?

Given that the most important people in his life seem to dislike this country, it seems rational to me to wonder what he thinks. But those who dare to question his patriotism are dismissed as kooky racists by those who worship Obama.

Rockhound, how about economics? I'm no expert by any means, but here's what I think...

(1) the western European nations are more socialist in nature than the US currently is (fact)
(2) those western european nations are in far more economic danger than the US currently is (fact)
(3) given (1) and (2), it's fair to say that western european socialism doesn't seem to be working (my opinion, but reasonable I think)
(4) in order to save themselves, those nations are drastically cutting spending (fact)
(5) Obama's vision of america is one where the federal government is larger than we're used to, with higher taxes to support it (I'd say that's fact, I don't see how you can disagree). In other words, he favors the western European model.

\Given all this, why would anyone in his right mind believe that we should repeat the same mistakes that are currently destroying Western Europe? Why is that form of light socialism going to work here, if it has never worked anywhere else?

I don't like the fact that there are poor folks out there. If someone could build a society where everyone made exactly $125,000, I would want to live there. But there is a reason why, in the history of the planet, no opne has been able to pull it off. It just doesn't work.

Therefore, I am as opposed to Obama's economic policies as I can be. Our economy was doing just fine until the subprime mortgages imploded.

What do you think?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Rockhound, I do enjoy this debate, and I hope my posts are not coming across harsher than I'm intending. My posts tend to do that, unfortunately. You and I don't agree, but you have been very respectful.

"I believe he doesn't hate America, you do. we could continually go around. "

I'm not saying I think he hates America. I'm saying his spiritual mentor, his political mentor, and his wife all dislike this country to varying degrees. Do you agree?

Given that the most important people in his life seem to dislike this country, it seems rational to me to wonder what he thinks. But those who dare to question his patriotism are dismissed as kooky racists by those who worship Obama.

Rockhound, how about economics? I'm no expert by any means, but here's what I think...

What do you think?

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND
I can't pass this one up. ,, it has been discussed here in previous posts, and I didn't want to rehash my arguments. Whats next? Birth certificates?

pasted from a Op-ed by Roland Martin, CNN. Bold emphasis added by me.

did anybody else see or hear him? He was on FOX News, this is a white man,

I guess Edward peck hates America too....
...........................................




it's a little more than that Jim, Bryan has formed his opinion based on a CNN/MSNBC fairytale illusion narrative rather than actual facts...he just proved it by using a story by a CNN unknown, claiming to debunk the Reverend Wright myth claiming that a member of the Regan administration had said exactly the same thing...none of which is true and it turns out that his expert witness sounds exactly like most Obama "friends" and would have actually fit quite nicely in to the Wright Congregation.....it's not a difference of "Opinion"...it's a difference in the ability/willingness to selectively ignore or dismiss basic facts simply because they disagree with his world view and it occurs routinely and results in thin arguments beyond the basic talking points...what sort of debate do you have when facts are completely ignored or dismissed or in this case...invented....you stated this as a liberal trait...it's remarkably accurate...and in an effort to defend WHO?...Reverend Wright?!?!?

someone should tell him, lest he continue to wander in the dark.....you know, about the Peck thing...he's selectively ignoring me...further proof

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Rockhound, I do enjoy this debate, and I hope my posts are not coming across harsher than I'm intending. My posts tend to do that, unfortunately. You and I don't agree, but you have been very respectful.

As have you, which is why I enjoy the discussion. I just got back to this now, I wasn't ignoring the topic, just a busy day! I may come across as a raving liberal, and on some topics I am, but I'm some pseudo Liberal-Ind-Libertarian Mix.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm not saying I think he hates America. I'm saying his spiritual mentor, his political mentor, and his wife all dislike this country to varying degrees. Do you agree?

I think there may be aspects of the country they disagree with, but I wouldn't call Wright his political mentor, nor would I call Ayers his political mentor. As far as Michelle, who knows. I do think she is left of her husband, but I think Laura Bush was left of GWB on some topics. This has influence, but ultimately they (the wives) are not the president.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But those who dare to question his patriotism are dismissed as kooky racists by those who worship Obama.

I don't think you come across as a kooky racist; some who are out there holding signs certainly are.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

(1) the western European nations are more socialist in nature than the US currently is (fact) (2) those western european nations are in far more economic danger than the US currently is (fact) (3) given (1) and (2), it's fair to say that western european socialism doesn't seem to be working (my opinion, but reasonable I think) (4) in order to save themselves, those nations are drastically cutting spending (fact) (5) Obama's vision of america is one where the federal government is larger than we're used to, with higher taxes to support it (I'd say that's fact, I don't see how you can disagree). In other words, he favors the western European model.

1,2,3 I accept as fact. I also think the scale of the economies of those countries is far different than the US, and makes direct comparisons difficult. I also don't see us heading down the socialist path you do. I was a fan of Healthcare for children and the elderly, and having a low-cost option for the rest of America, which is what Obama campaigned on. It remains to be seen if the current plan does that.

Here in lies a major issue. I don't think many people, myself included think that we can continue to raise spending a cut taxes, and this applies to both sides of the aisle. I think the White House dropped the ball with this one, and should have fought harder. The problem now, is that these cuts are probably permanent (maybe not a problem? I like lower taxes as well) but few of the Republicans are actually proposing ways to make the cuts needed. They were continually griping about how we need to extend unemployment, but only if the Democrats find a way to fund it. Where is the same logic with the tax cuts? What will get cut to account for the difference in income for the country.... Probably nothing right now, and nothing when the Republicans take the house.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Therefore, I am as opposed to Obama's economic policies as I can be. Our economy was doing just fine until the subprime mortgages imploded

Are you blaming this on Obama? I don't think you are, but just clarifying....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

As have you, which is why I enjoy the discussion. I just got back to this now, I wasn't ignoring the topic, just a busy day! I may come across as a raving liberal, and on some topics I am, but I'm some pseudo Liberal-Ind-Libertarian Mix.


I think there may be aspects of the country they disagree with, but I wouldn't call Wright his political mentor, nor would I call Ayers his political mentor. As far as Michelle, who knows. I do think she is left of her husband, but I think Laura Bush was left of GWB on some topics. This has influence, but ultimately they (the wives) are not the president.

I don't think you come across as a kooky racist; some who are out there holding signs certainly are.



1,2,3 I accept as fact. I also think the scale of the economies of those countries is far different than the US, and makes direct comparisons difficult. I also don't see us heading down the socialist path you do. I was a fan of Healthcare for children and the elderly, and having a low-cost option for the rest of America, which is what Obama campaigned on. It remains to be seen if the current plan does that.

Here in lies a major issue. I don't think many people, myself included think that we can continue to raise spending a cut taxes, and this applies to both sides of the aisle. I think the White House dropped the ball with this one, and should have fought harder. The problem now, is that these cuts are probably permanent (maybe not a problem? I like lower taxes as well) but few of the Republicans are actually proposing ways to make the cuts needed. They were continually griping about how we need to extend unemployment, but only if the Democrats find a way to fund it. Where is the same logic with the tax cuts? What will get cut to account for the difference in income for the country.... Probably nothing right now, and nothing when the Republicans take the house.



Are you blaming this on Obama? I don't think you are, but just clarifying....

rirockhound -

"but I wouldn't call Wright his political mentor"

I assume you meant to say "spiritual" mentor. You don't consider Wright to be Obama's spiritual mentor. Let's see...Obama sat in that church for 20 years, Wright married the Obamas, Wright baptized both of the Obama girls, what would you call it? You sound like someone who will go to great lengths to avoid reality, if that reality makes Obama look bad.

"As far as Michelle, who knows"

I know what she said. Do you?

Laura Bush? Where is the evidence she might be an anti-American influence on her husband.

You are dodging...

"I also don't see us heading down the socialist path you do."

Based on what? Obama wants the feds to play a bigger role in healthcare, the auto industry, financial markets...He wants to drastically expand the size and scope of the federal government. You say his vision is not the same as western Europe. PLEASE SUPPORT THAT STATEMENT...

[scottw]

Obama's current "spiritual advisor" Jim Wallis

Wallis has served on the Advisory Council to President Barack Obama's Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. He serves as a spiritual adviser to President Obama.

“If you want to understand where Barack gets his feeling and rhetoric from,” says the Rev. Jim Wallis, a leader of the religious left, “just look at Jeremiah Wright.”

Obama Suddenly Objects To Wright Being Called His ‘Spiritual Mentor’ - By Jim Geraghty - The Campaign Spot - National Review Online