obamacare

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by PaulS

bad roads, crappy mass transit - buy a larger heavier duty car
poor educ. system - private schools
faulty electrical grid - private generators
no police (high crime) - live in a gated community, private police force.
crappy hospitals - private clinics, fly to a good hospital
cut back on social services - if you have $, you don't need social services
etc. etc.

State, State and State. Welcome to the United States of America. Not the Feds turf.



You and your family had the where with all to pull yourselves up - many people don't.

Ouch, I guess you believe all men are not created equal? I believe everyone in this country has equal opportunity. You dont believe that to be true. Neither did Hitler, Mao, Stalin and most supremicist groups. Im glad I differ. No matter what your economic background is, race or religion. I firmly believe you have the opportunity to succeed. All the knowledge you need is in a place called a library. there is free computer access. All libraries are free, funded by tax dollars. Get off your arse and go.

Look at the tax burden of states that all get more/dollar in tax returns then they pay in - all states that vote repub. (south, midwest, etc). I bet Kentucky gets as much back as any state in tax revenue yet elects Rand Paul. They aught to put their $ where their mouth is an refuse fed. $.

Give Paul a chance, he may just do that.

[PaulS]

I guess you'll agree to higher state taxes, right?

So your being sent to private school didn't give you an advantage? Your having 2 parents didn't give you an advantage over someone in the foster care system?

And now I agree with Hitler, Mao and Stalin - At least I got another good laugh from you today.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I guess you'll agree to higher state taxes, right?

YES ! One that I can vote on and benefit my community! Thats how our government was structured!

So your being sent to private school didn't give you an advantage? Your having 2 parents didn't give you an advantage over someone in the foster care system?

Paul -its the angle you view things..."being sent" was not some lottery I won, it was the sacrifice and determination of my parents that "sent" me to school. The question I ask you is what advantage did my parents have? My parents were from disfunctional, alcoholic, divorced, low income families. High School degrees. I've told this story a million times on this website - I remember Thanksgiving and Christmas with my Dad (who worked nights most of my childhood) and he would leave to go into work on Christmas and T day at night and he would tell me he would get triple time for going in and he just couldnt turn down the money. But as a Dad he and I fished all over, camping in upstate new york, RI , family vacations on the beach, weekend trips . he was a fantastic guy and the best father ever. He never, not once, went out with the guys nad had a few beers, never went to a ball game, all free time was spent with his family. Now you - you believe guys who slack at work take the easy way out, spend the pay on drinks and cigarettes, never try to better themselves - you think they deserve handouts while my dad got NONE? BS. You called it" where with all" I call it accountability and responsibilty.

And now I agree with Hitler, Mao and Stalin - At least I got another good laugh from you today.

Look at what you said -

"You and your family had the where with all to pull yourselves up - many people don't."


you clearly believe that some people cant do things on there own (I'll give you health/mentail problems)
But my family could which implies superiority. you believe some people can make it and others need help. The baseline belief in dictators and tyrants is that they are superior and need to help (aka inflict their beliefs) on the masses.

[PaulS]

Good for your parents (I don't mean that at all sarcastically). That is what the country is all about. But you and I benefited from people who sacrificed, worked hard, provided for us and spent time with us so that we knew we had to study, hard, save, etc. We had advantages that our parents did that for us. Your parents clearly showed that they could break the cycle. Unfort., many people grow up unable to break that cycle, could be born with a mom who didn't eat properly, smoked, drugs, etc. Their parents might not of read to them, provided 3 square meals, etc etc. That is reality, not a feeling of superiority.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Good for your parents (I don't mean that at all sarcastically). That is what the country is all about. But you and I benefited from people who sacrificed, worked hard, provided for us and spent time with us so that we knew we had to study, hard, save, etc. We had advantages that our parents did that for us. Your parents clearly showed that they could break the cycle. Unfort., many people grow up unable to break that cycle, could be born with a mom who didn't eat properly, smoked, drugs, etc. Their parents might not of read to them, provided 3 square meals, etc etc. That is reality, not a feeling of superiority.

Paul, that may be true in many cases. But, there are way too many people who don't even try to break that cycle, or just try to better their situation because it's less effort to just take a hand out. There's very little self reliance in this country anymore and it sucks.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by fishbones

There's very little self reliance in this country anymore and it sucks.

Have an concrete evidence of that or is that purely conjecture? I see you feel that way, but when you say "anymore" what are you comparing it to? The 1980's? 100 years ago? 10 years ago? What is your evidence?

[RIJIMMY]

[QUOTE=PaulS;864140 Unfort., many people grow up unable to break that cycle, .[/QUOTE]

Unable? why? I say unwilling. Big, big difference. So you believe governemtn should step in and provide, govt should break the cycle? Throw more $$$ at the problem. ITS NOT WORKING!!!!



and zimmy, hmmm evidendce of a lack of self reliance....

- Obamacare
- Mortgage bailouts (not one human was forced at gunpoint to sign their mortgage)
- Wall Street bailouts
- GM bailouts
- see my "banned cupcake" thread
- theres a sign with 300 lines of text at the escalator in the train stations for "escalator safety"

[The Dad Fisherman]

You know why only 1 percent of Kids who join scouting ever make Eagle Scout....because to make it they have to do the work Themselves.....Thats pretty telling right there.

People walk around everywhere feeling they are Entitled to things. It drives me nutz

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You know why only 1 percent of Kids who join scouting ever make Eagle Scout....because to make it they have to do the work Themselves.....

I thought it was because they became more interested in girls?

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Unable? why? I say unwilling. Big, big difference. So you believe governemtn should step in and provide, govt should break the cycle? Throw more $$$ at the problem. ITS NOT WORKING!!!!



and zimmy, hmmm evidendce of a lack of self reliance....

- Obamacare
- Mortgage bailouts (not one human was forced at gunpoint to sign their mortgage)
- Wall Street bailouts
- GM bailouts
- see my "banned cupcake" thread
- theres a sign with 300 lines of text at the escalator in the train stations for "escalator safety"

Thanks for posting the above, Jimmy. I was just going to add him to my ignore list because his comment was so ridiculous, but decided I might miss out on some really crazy, moonbat sh1t that he posts in here.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I thought it was because they became more interested in girls?

Three fluids that keep a kid from making Eagle......

Gasoline
Alcohol
Perfume

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Unable? why? I say unwilling. Big, big difference. So you believe governemtn should step in and provide, govt should break the cycle? Throw more $$$ at the problem. ITS NOT WORKING!!!!

So you don't think someone growing up in Greenwich Ct. won't have more advantages that someone growing up in So. Boston?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So you don't think someone growing up in Greenwich Ct. won't have more advantages that someone growing up in So. Boston?

of course, but so? So you think we should level the playing field? The bulk of my career has been in Boston and there are many guys I know who brag of coming from Southie and are extremely successful.

The govt owes these people nothing, its not their role. The government should enforce equal opportunity and those in the slums and in the best areas have equal opportunity. There are countless success stories.

Theres no need for us to debate, we'll never agree. Im tired of the constant assault on my wages while I have to fund every single things I do and will every pay for by myself. When I did my taxes I was sick to my stomach for days, it was a disgrace and all I ever hear is more, more, more (in my John Fogarty singing voice).

The government made a law that rich people who make money and have an extreme gain on an investment are required, by law, to make a charitable donation to the healthcare of others at the threat of imprisonment and fines is something out founding fathers would have spit at. Its a shame and a sham.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Nobody said the world is a Level Playing Field

[The Dad Fisherman]

You guys type faster than me....

[RIJIMMY]

more for zimmy on the self reliance......

Foreclosure limbo: Staying without paying. - Jun. 9, 2011

- by law - you sign a truth in lending act. LAW - which says what your total payments on your home could be. These deadbeats, errrr, ummm, ahhh, I mean hapless victims of wall st greed, signed that agreement.

[PaulS]

It seemed that your point was that you were able to succeed and therefore everyone should be able to succeed.

You also seem to think that everyone who is a lefty wants to take everyone's $ and redistribute it. Which isn't true.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Thanks for posting the above, Jimmy. I was just going to add him to my ignore list because his comment was so ridiculous, but decided I might miss out on some really crazy, moonbat sh1t that he posts in here.

Sounds like you just can't understand normal thinking

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Unable? why? I say unwilling. Big, big difference. So you believe governemtn should step in and provide, govt should break the cycle? Throw more $$$ at the problem. ITS NOT WORKING!!!!



and zimmy, hmmm evidendce of a lack of self reliance....

- Obamacare
- Mortgage bailouts (not one human was forced at gunpoint to sign their mortgage)
- Wall Street bailouts
- GM bailouts
- see my "banned cupcake" thread
- theres a sign with 300 lines of text at the escalator in the train stations for "escalator safety"

Wall street bailout cost less than half of the savings and loan bailout in the 80's under reagan.

Gm bailout saved an enormous amount of jobs and tax payer money in the long term.

Obamacare is projected to save money in the long term

Kids parents should decide if they can have cupcakes

Again, reality is very different than what the Palinites state. Firing guns and ringing bells to warn the British

[spence]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Wall street bailout cost less than half of the savings and loan bailout in the 80's under reagan.

From what I've read we were about 18-24 hours from not being able to take money out of ATM's. Once Lehman blew up the entire system started to shut down. I certainly thought the Paulson plan was really reckless after the fact, but the more is revealed you realize how desperate they really were.

Gm bailout saved an enormous amount of jobs and tax payer money in the long term.

Like 2 million jobs and a lot of small to mid size businesses. The automotive supply chain is enormous.

Obamacare is projected to save money in the long term

While it lays some foundation it doesn't really solve the problems.

Kids parents should decide if they can have cupcakes

Perhaps if they made good decisions we wouldn't have so many people growing up with medical problems and adding to the cost of health care. While some of these stories are pretty silly, the only way to change the behavior of a large group is by forced modeling. It's why Apple doesn't support Flash on the iPad

-spence

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

more for zimmy on the self reliance......

Foreclosure limbo: Staying without paying. - Jun. 9, 2011

- by law - you sign a truth in lending act. LAW - which says what your total payments on your home could be. These deadbeats, errrr, ummm, ahhh, I mean hapless victims of wall st greed, signed that agreement.

Both the banks and the people who took the loans are responsible for the results of those loans. Still doesn't answer my question about lack of self reliance compared to when? The 1920's? 1970's? 2005? People throw out this crap without backing it up.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Still doesn't answer my question about lack of self reliance compared to when? The 1920's? 1970's? 2005? People throw out this crap without backing it up.

IMHO it doesn't make a difference what decade it is, self reliance is
self reliance.

If anyone wants to work hard,be loyal to his employer, reliable and trustworthy,
they will be able to get a job and go up the ladder in what ever their endeavor.

It all comes from within, the effort and willingness to work as hard as you can.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Both the banks and the people who took the loans are responsible for the results of those loans. Still doesn't answer my question about lack of self reliance compared to when? The 1920's? 1970's? 2005? People throw out this crap without backing it up.

Since I've only been around since the 70's, I'll use the 70's through 90's as my measuring stick.
RIJimmy and Justplugit have already made the case, but clearly you don't get it. It's easy enough to see that there are more people on government assistance than there were in the past 40 years. Even someone as clueless as you could look that up. While some really need it, many people are on it because to them, it beats hard work. I also see it almost daily in my job. People get hired and work just long enough to be eligible for government programs. Then, they ask me to type them up a letter so they can get welfare, etc... This is a fact. I've had people tell me that's why they quit or got fired.

[striperman36]

I'm not in a position to write that letter for anyone, if I was I couldn't do it. That's the unfortunate truth, it's easier to get a 'kiss in the mail' than work for it, sometimes it even pays more.

I've heard many people say it's their money and the deserve it.

Unfortunately, I guess myself and others can't sleep playing the system like that, and we're the one's getting squeezed.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by fishbones

It's easy enough to see that there are more people on government assistance than there were in the past 40 years. Even someone as clueless as you could look that up.

Might want to check your numbers there mr. elightened. Sometimes people aren't as smart as they think, others may not be as clueless as you think. The population today is much larger, but all things equal, less welfare today than the 70's, 80's or 90's. Just as I thought, you throw crap around without knowing what you are talking about. I understand you get upset if someone has a different view of things than you, but you might benefit from actually looking at the numbers rather than going on your "feelings"

Graph shows monthly benefits in 2006 dollars.

[Fishpart]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Might want to check your numbers there mr. elightened. Sometimes people aren't as smart as they think, others may not be as clueless as you think. The population today is much larger, but all things equal, less welfare today than the 70's, 80's or 90's. Just as I thought, you throw crap around without knowing what you are talking about. I understand you get upset if someone has a different view of things than you, but you might benefit from actually looking at the numbers rather than going on your "feelings"

Amazing statistics It appears (because it doesn't have adequate labeling) to be average monthly benefit per person, not total gvt outlay. It would be nice if it really showed something useful...

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

Amazing statistics It appears (because it doesn't have adequate labeling) to be average monthly benefit per person, not total gvt outlay. It would be nice if it really showed something useful...

Label didn't show up. Value of monthly benefits adjusted to value of dollar in 2006.

[UserRemoved1]

Wonder if Hugo gets Obamacare for his bag of pus

Chavez recovers after surgery in Cuba: officials

[UserRemoved]

Seniors face Medicare cost barrier for cancer meds - Yahoo! News

I went in CVS last week for 3 prescriptions. Bronchitis. $185 for a inhaler.

I dropped $600 in one day on doctor visit and medication.

I can't make money that fast. How's that Massachusetts model working out you used O'bama. I put an application in for Mahealth the next night. I'm gonna live off all you #^&#^&#^&#^&bums now.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Might want to check your numbers there mr. elightened. Sometimes people aren't as smart as they think, others may not be as clueless as you think. The population today is much larger, but all things equal, less welfare today than the 70's, 80's or 90's. Just as I thought, you throw crap around without knowing what you are talking about. I understand you get upset if someone has a different view of things than you, but you might benefit from actually looking at the numbers rather than going on your "feelings"

Graph shows monthly benefits in 2006 dollars.

And there you have it. The childish, uninformed response I was waiting for. You pick and choose your statistics to suit your weak argument. I'm not sure why you use only welfare statistics when I never mentioned welfare? I guess it's because it was the only graph you could find that worked for you? Since the 1970's there have been more and more government assistance programs introduced. Some of these programs got people off welfare and into a new or different assistance program. You need to take a broader, more informed look at things before popping off.