Circle Hook / YoYo Rig Comment Period and Hearings

[Sea Flat]

Would an octopus style hook be considered a circle hook?

[trapperpierre]

For every yoyo fatality thare are hundreds, perhaps thousands of light tackle release deaths. Unethical is-the actual methodology of "catch & release"..that kills striped bass with light tackle///i.e. fly rod, spinning, and coventional....beat and wear down to fish beyond recovery......then the smiling release and the C & R dude exclaims-"Live fish live".....with a high percentage of the stripers become crab food...............The DEP should seriously look at mininum gear size--i.e. rods.....line & leader stength--for all C & R fishing............a regulation enforced..........to increase the percentage of stripers to live-after being played to death on light gear. Such a minimum gear size would save untolded striped bass.....get real

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by trapperpierre

Such a minimum gear size would save untolded striped bass.....get real

Anything to back this up?

There is definitely some responsibility on the fisherman for using appropriately sized gear, but it's also not like every person up and down the beach or on boats are using freshwater gear to catch stripers.

[JoeBass]

I mostly fish Maine and starting Jan. 1 2012 circle hooks for bait fishing is the law. I'll abide by it because it helps cut down on fish mortality (and it's the law) but, and this is a big one for me,...I'm gonna really miss setting the hook. I've been setting the hook for over 40 years, it's now a reflex. And it's a great feeling.By-the-way I agree with all the guys saying one at 36" and cut commercial in half.

[Spinfish]

Originally Posted by JoeBass

I mostly fish Maine and starting Jan. 1 2012 circle hooks for bait fishing is the law. I'll abide by it because it helps cut down on fish mortality (and it's the law) but, and this is a big one for me,...I'm gonna really miss setting the hook. I've been setting the hook for over 40 years, it's now a reflex. And it's a great feeling.By-the-way I agree with all the guys saying one at 36" and cut commercial in half.

I know, if you can't cross their eyes a little what fun is it...

Maybe if I let the fish swallow the Eel, and swims away just right....and I keep just the right pressure....the Eel will pull out of it's gut....the hook will rotate just right... Spare me.

[Typhoon]

I've never seen a yo-yo rig in action. Is it mostly a south of the canal deal?

[Van]

I CAN THINK OF OHHHHHH.........10-20 OTHER OPTIONS TO HELP BASS MORTALITY...

CHANGING THE LITTLE PIECE OF METAL AT THE END OF THE LINE
ISN'T ONE OF THEM !!!!!!!!!

FIX THE BAIT>STOP TRAWLERS BY CATCH>DECREASE THE TAKE LIMIT> IT GOES ON AND ON.

FRAKING IDOTS.....

sorry for the caps, but thats how I feel about it.


What Piemma said !!!!!!!!!!
1 @ 36 and be done with it

[The Dad Fisherman]

It all comes down to them defining what constitutes "whole and Cut" bait.

Mass Wildlife defines American Eel as a Baitfish.

a) Definitions:

Bait fish means only live or dead fish of the following species. A person shall not use as bait any fish, alive or dead, including parts thereof, except those fish listed in 321 CMR 4.01(8)(a)1. through 15:
1. American eel (Anguilla rostrata)
2. White sucker (Catostomus commersoni)
3. Creek chubsucker (Erimyzon oblongus)
4. Banded killifish (Fundulus diaphanus)
5. Mummichog (Fundulus heteroclitus)
6. Pumpkinseed (Lepomis gibbosus)
7. Golden shiner (Notemigonus crysoleucas)
8. Emerald shiner (Notropis atherinoides)
9. Spottail shiner (Notropis hudsonius)
10. Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax), only as provided in 321 CMR 4.01, Table 1.
11. Yellow perch (Perca flavescens)
12. Fallfish (Semotilus corporalis)
13. Bluntnose minnow (Pimephales notatus)
14. Fathead minnow (Pimephales promelas)
15. Herring (Clupea spp.) may be used as bait in the Connecticut River, Merrimack River, and coastal rivers and streams, only as provided in 321 CMR 4.01: Table 1 and 322 CMR, but may not be possessed or used as bait in other rivers and streams, or in lakes, ponds, or reservoirs.

Also doesn't matter what "Technique" you use to retrieve it. I've twitched herring back to me like a lure when I retrieve it....doesn't make it a lure

[stripermaineiac]

LOL like all those catch and release fish the netters throw back. more in a day than rod n reel coastwide in a year. Oh thats right those pics posted last fall were all fake and made up just to make the poor commecials look bad.LOL Same old bull to just do nothing then moan an groan about the fishing.

[Swimmer]

Here we goooooooooooo..............

[stripermaineiac]

What do you mean here we goo. It never stopped. some of us practice what we preach and stick to our guns.If it wasn't for that there wouldn't be any stripers around now.gamefish status and one fish 36 in.

[trapperpierre]

...no scientific data to support the amount of yoyo fatalities--regulation to prohibit use of is not substanciated(reg should not be even introduced based on the lack of research in this area)-introduced on hearsay......do a study before even considering enacting

......and there is plenty of data on catch & release by rod & reel--with a healthy percentaage killed-time for scientific study to evaluate the light tackle as an important negative multican of death to C&R..:love

........multiple use is the only fair way to utilize the striped bass resource.....food & recreation..........if comm & recs do not managed to SB resource to provide their respective utilization....they have nothing-both groups are not stupid......

[trapperpierre]

.........the floaters now are being applied to other commercial fisherman bag down in the mid-atlantic--and/or off loaded to other boats being counted towards the cap..............however I've avicated that striped bass commercial fish be caught by rod & reel as the primary tool........coastwide.....LOL to ya all

[likwid]

Originally Posted by trapperpierre

...no scientific data to support the amount of yoyo fatalities

Are you really trying to defend yoyo'ing?

[trapperpierre]

........ANY fisheries regulation-as it relates to fish mortality- demands/needs a comprehensive scientific study before it shall be implemented........otherwise, a reglatory dictator can -without justification-enact a regulation without due proceess....this will start a a bad administrative process----that will--beyond this issue--bite all fisherman in the butt....

[DZ]

Originally Posted by trapperpierre

........ANY fisheries regulation-as it relates to fish mortality- demands/needs a comprehensive scientific study before it shall be implemented........otherwise, a reglatory dictator can -without justification-enact a regulation without due proceess....this will start a a bad administrative process----that will--beyond this issue--bite all fisherman in the butt....

You are correct trapper - but I think the intent of this proposed reg is meant to enforce banning an unethical method of fishing. How could anyone use a bait that has a high potential to kill untargeted species such as other fish, marine birds, etc., when coming unattached from your line. Hard to come up with an appropriate analogy but if I knew that every time an eel came off my hook it would be fatal to anything that ate it - I would stop using eels.
If you can't get fishermen to voluntarily clean up their act you have to make a law. Unfortunatly society can't depend on the use of common sense.

DZ

[stripermaineiac]

I'd tather see rod n reel as that is a heck of a lot more selective than nets are.I worked on a gill netter as a kid. If it was in the net is was dead.What we couldn't keep we stuck and through over the side. Not many swam away.But I'd still rather see gamefish with one fish limit. Size can be worked out.Plus everyone with a comercial ticket fishing for whatever should have to fill out a tax sheat every year. no matter how few fish they sell.I sell plugs,flies and rods and I pay my taxes.I pay my taxes they should have to pay theirs too. Ron

[stripermaineiac]

LOL lets see just how many years are they gonna study this problem this time? seems to be the same problem they've been studying since the 50's.Like before study forever so nothing gets done till it's way too late.Never yet saw a scientist in the surf or in a boat studying. Always at a computer.

[trapperpierre]

LOL-gotta give the fisheries bean counters something to do LOL,,,,,,,,,,,next it will be single hook only on all artificial lures--so the catch & release boys(&girls) can release their percent of dead fish with cleaner mouths,,,not shreded by treble hook plugs(this does not apply to the small percentage of C&R anglers using single barbless)...the biological reference points in force by ASMFC will prevent a total collasp of the SB population----enough of this BS LOL,,,,,,,gotta go pack up my LL Bean boots to get resoled-for the 4th time.....yep ya northerners can make a mean boot.....

[stripermaineiac]

They're made outside the country now.No more made in maine bean boots.

[stripermaineiac]

Just remember anything custom made here hurts the imports.Rod,flies,plugs,jigs,clothing-rain gear +shirts-and everything else.

[BasicPatrick]

REALITY CHECK...the following is public record.

DMF DID NOT INITIATE THIS RULEMAKING...Major citizen user groups with members (on this board) started both of these actions. DMF took "petitions" to the MA Marine Fisheries Commission and the Commission decided to ask the public for input.

According to a presentation by DMF's Dr. Mike Armstrong at the MSBA meeting last week....


The MV Striped Bass & Bluefish Committee "Petitioned" DMF to ban the fishing method known as "YOYO".

The Cape Cod Charter Boat Association "Petitioned" DMF to mandate circle hook use on all natural bait.


A few factoids from the Q&A at MSBA you might want to hear...

Q. Under the YoYo language would an egg sinker or weight stuffed inside a rigged eel be legal? A. If not attached to the line...then NOT LEGAL.

Q. would circle hooks be required when fishing with Sand Eels and Sea Worms? A. YES

Q. Would circle hooks be required when fishing live Bunker and Mackerel? A. Yes

Q. Would circle hooks be required on a high low bait rig? A. Yes

Q. Is an offset Circle a legal circle hook? A. NO

Q. Is and "Octopus" circle a legal circle? A. NO

Q. Is a circle hook required on the end of a Tube & Worm lure? A. NO

[big jay]

Patrick's right about the Circle hook proposal - it did come from the Cape Cod Charter Boat Association. It was a reaction to the ridiculous # of dead short fish that were floating during the month long eel bite at P-town during the 2009 season.

I personally think circles are even more effective than J's (again, from my boat that doesn't count here) - but it is funny to see my Father fish circles - he's been using J's for so long, he can't possible help himself from setting the hook, no matter how hard he tries.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

I fished circles for tarpon in Florida and it was really difficult to get used to;"point the rod tip towards the fish and just reel".You literally can not set the hook with those things. I can see myself ignoring both of these ideas and taking my chances,circle high/low rigs? Tell me this is all a joke.

For a realistic idea that will have a positive impact on the fishery we need to reduce the catch to 1 at 36".Places like the canal where the recs have a sizable impact will be policed by the anglers themselves.

There are pleanty of charter boat captains who set no catch limits on their charters and allow a few extras for the sports,especially the nighttime variety. This also has to cease for the bass to have a chance to flourish.

[trapperpierre]

.....striper Maniac & I were interjecting some "spin off stuff"..I will start a thread where it belongs--me bad--in The Tavern section(i.e. not made in USA ETC.)

........and so called "Petitions" sent to DMF--in the yoyo review-is based on several accounts of fish being damaged-not done in a scientific survey...only based on very limited data...if the trend is to have the general public manage our fisheries....not based on a scientific survey-based on all the elements of proper established and accepted scientific research method....WE all are in trouble......then we should abolish all marine scientists employed by the MA DMF....and let the general public create & remove fishery regulations....

even worse, is when state asemblies take on the duty of Wildlife & Fisheries managment.....

..show me the data that is inrefutable evidence in the proper quanities...

.....my real interest is not so much in defending any methods engaged in a fishery...........please show me---in documented detail the results of extensive research to justify the said changes desired... show me that data from the scientist & managers...not limited data and fueled by emotion or passions that distain fishing methods not used by a particular group

.....the process of entering "Petitions" are part of the process..........we should have faith in the established system

....is easy to pack a hearing with large numbers of people trained to say similar views-not necessarily based on fact....

we are at a dangerous cross roads of who or whom becomes the fishery managers

Note aside: Good news---there has a susbtancial sucess in grafting American Chestnut trees to establish growth---some day--we can use them again for whatever purpose...

In the recent past-I spent 6 years -as a member on the ASMFC SB advisory panel.....I have a bit of knowledge how the reglatory system operates....I was not reapointed by The Gov. of our lovely state---when I expressed my concerns for a reduce coastwide harvest of beloved menhaden...and introduced the concept of establishing a seperate user catogorie fof the SB resource.......for Charter/headboat Com.-------a utlization of the resource that removes vast poundage of fish(striped bass)--for bucks$$.

[MAKAI]

For accurate accountability, the charter/ headboat fleet should be a separate designation. See adjective one, could make the argument that they are more commercial fishing than the guys selling fish out of their personal boats.

[riff_raff]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

For accurate accountability, the charter/ headboat fleet should be a separate designation. See adjective one, could make the argument that they are more commercial fishing than the guys selling fish out of their personal boats.

What you are forgetting is the charter/headboat fleet is not "fishing". Their clients are fishing. No different than any other guy sitting on the shore or in his own or buddies boat. They just rent a ride and hire a guide.

Jon

[Mr. Sandman]

[QUOTE=trapperpierre;901510....then we should abolish all marine scientists employed by the MA DMF....and let the general public create & remove fishery regulations....
.[/QUOTE]


Yes!!!
Best idea in your rant!

What GOOD has the marine scientists done? The recent codfish debacle comes to mind and all that so called science.

As for the Yoyo issue. While not scientific, it is hardly limited data, it is pretty factual....Sometimes common sense will be a better guide than exhaustive, expensive, time consuming and error prone science based extrapolations by state-hired Phd's who don't fish.

This was based on the commercial fleet who, off of Gay Head a few years ago, were pounding fish with this approach. Many fish were lost and ingested the lead and associated wire rigs internally. (we know this because many were recaptured with infected sores and wire/metal rigs poking thru their stomachs. Most were sold with the lead inside) When you see them doing it, and the amount of gear lost that you KNOW is now inside the fish...this becomes a no-brainer.
ENOUGH WITH THE BAD SCIENCE!!! You guys can't manage yourself out of a paper bag with that so called science you tout, Frankly, it is laughable. Try some common sense and save us all a lot of money as well as a few fish.

YoYo was an effective fishing method. But the REAL mortality is ALOT more than what is currently assumed. Further there is a risk of long term lead contamination to the flesh which is consumed by humans.
Is the state saying that fish that have lead in their digestive systems for long periods, placed there by fishermen, is a good thing for the public who consume them? Why is the DMF trying to poison the fish-buying public with lead? If they OK this method that is effectively what they are saying, that they like the idea of lead inside fish, knowing it will be consumed by the public. I can see potential legal nightmare for the state when someone gets lead poisoning.


I support this yo-yo ban.

Circle hooks are a positive step as well.

It will be tougher to catch a tog with a circle hook and a green-crab however.


The bottom line is fishermen especially NE fishermen resist change of any kind...good bad or otherwise. You have to jam it down their throat with them kicking and screaming or you can not do anything. Just do it...Man up!

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

The bottom line is fishermen especially NE fishermen resist change of any kind...good bad or otherwise. You have to jam it down their throat with them kicking and screaming or you can not do anything. Just do it...Man up!

Short memories too, the cod collapse has been mentioned every year for damn near 20 years now.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Places like the canal where the recs have a sizable impact will be policed by the anglers themselves.

You mean by pissing and moaning online?