Barack must be desperate for voters...

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Doesn't matter how hard he works if he does a crappy job. There are no "A's for effort" in his position. And his childish remarks and smarmy attitude make people dislike him. That doesn't make him detached, but it makes him look like an ass.

The jury doesn't decide on the job he's done for another year. I think Obama can present a pretty effective presidency if he can get his PR together.

As for childish and smarmy remarks, I'm not sure there's much here to go on...unless you hated him to begin with.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

The jury doesn't decide on the job he's done for another year. I think Obama can present a pretty effective presidency if he can get his PR together.

As for childish and smarmy remarks, I'm not sure there's much here to go on...unless you hated him to begin with.

-spence

"As for childish and smarmy remarks, I'm not sure there's much here to go on."

on Sarah Palin..."you can put lipstick onm a pig, it's still a pig".

On blue collar Americans: they cling to their guns and religion because they are bitter and racist.

On the Cambridge police: I wasn't there, and I have no idea what happened, but it's fair to say the police acted stupidly.

On those who criticized him for his remarks about the Cambridge police: I'm sorry if people took my remarks as derogatory. (Is there another way to interpret the word "stupid"?)

On his bowling skills: I look like one of those special olympians out there (ha ha ha!!!! Boy, there's nothing funnier than making fun of handicapped people!)

on republicans: they need to get in the back of the bus.

This is just off the top of my head. Spence, care to comment on your assertion??

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

The jury doesn't decide on the job he's done for another year. I think Obama can present a pretty effective presidency if he can get his PR together.

As for childish and smarmy remarks, I'm not sure there's much here to go on...unless you hated him to begin with.

-spence

You're not serious, are you? He'd need the miracle of all miracles to present an effective presidency. As for me hating him, nope. You're not gonna bait me with that old crap. I may not have voted for him, but I hoped he would succeed. You can find that in a post I made way back when he was elected. Even you can find plenty of instances where he's been smarmy and childish. Plenty to go on there.

[scottw]

Spence is hilarious

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

You're not serious, are you? He'd need the miracle of all miracles to present an effective presidency.

Remember, his effectiveness will be judged relative to the challenges he's faced and the anticipated effectiveness of his challenger.

A tanking economy, two wars, 10 natural disasters etc...hell, this would have been tough first term for anyone.

The fact that we didn't slip into a depression, that we're exiting Iraq, that we've killed a heck of a lot of terrorists including OBL, expanded health care coverage, a lot of positive financial and military reforms, restrictions on lobbyists, incentives for small businesses etc...

There's a lot to sell the independent voter on. Obama's bigger worry should be that the left (and younger voters) feel he has led from the middle and might not mobilize like they did in 2008. But, it's looking like the GOP might have a similar problem getting the religious right to the polls as well.

In the end I think it's going to be a very tight race. Obama is a good debater and the debates will probably decide the election.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Remember, his effectiveness will be judged relative to the challenges he's faced and the anticipated effectiveness of his challenger.

A tanking economy, two wars, 10 natural disasters etc...hell, this would have been tough first term for anyone.

The fact that we didn't slip into a depression, that we're exiting Iraq, that we've killed a heck of a lot of terrorists including OBL, expanded health care coverage, a lot of positive financial and military reforms, restrictions on lobbyists, incentives for small businesses etc...

There's a lot to sell the independent voter on. Obama's bigger worry should be that the left (and younger voters) feel he has led from the middle and might not mobilize like they did in 2008. But, it's looking like the GOP might have a similar problem getting the religious right to the polls as well.

In the end I think it's going to be a very tight race. Obama is a good debater and the debates will probably decide the election.

-spence

"The fact that we didn't slip into a depression"

You're giving Obama credit for something that is literally impossoble to prove. His explosion of the debt may yet push us into that depression, but you don't care about that...

"we're exiting Iraq"

According to the strategy put in place by the previous administration...

"we've killed a heck of a lot of terrorists including OBL"

Thanks to the programs put in place by the previous administration...

"Obama is a good debater and the debates will probably decide the election."

I pray you are right,particularly if Gingrich is the nominee. Obama is a horrible debater, he's good at deflecting attention away from his actual record, and instead focusing on some mythical boogeyman, which in 2012 will be successful white people. That works against a poodle like John McCain, who was too afraid of being called a racist to attack Obama in a debate. An angry pitbull like Newt will have no such concerns, and it will show loud and clear.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You're giving Obama credit for something that is literally impossoble to prove. His explosion of the debt may yet push us into that depression, but you don't care about that...

Well, the CBO certainly seemed to think the stimulus has a positive impact. If Bush gets to take credit for keeping Americans safe post 9/11 you'd think Obama would get credit for keeping us out of a depression (and no attacks also :hihi)

According to the strategy put in place by the previous administration...

Thanks to the programs put in place by the previous administration...

If Obama was the idiot you claim he had plenty of chances to screw up the timeline for an Iraq withdrawal. As for terrorism, Obama certainly wasn't following the Bush playbook.

An angry pitbull like Newt will have no such concerns, and it will show loud and clear.

Yep, at the voting booth. People don't want to elect an angry pit bull president.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

l. As for terrorism, Obama certainly wasn't following the Bush playbook.

-spence

ThinkProgress Sept. 2011

Ex-CIA Lawyer: Obama Has Changed ‘Virtually Nothing’ From Bush’s Counter-Terror Policies | The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) released a report yesterday on the erosion of civil liberties in the post-9/11 era, which concluded that the Obama administration has continued many of the controversial policies of the Bush administration. Covering the ACLU report, the progressive radio show Democracy Now! interviewed former top Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) lawyer John Rizzo. The Obama administration had changed “virtually nothing with respect to existing CIA programs and operations,” Rizzo said. “Authorities were continued that were originally granted by President Bush beginning shortly after 9/11. Those were all picked up, reviewed and endorsed by the Obama administration.”

Progressive News Daily
August 26, 2011
Obama’s Illegal Assaults
How once-controversial ‘war on terror’ tactics became the new normal

BY Glenn Greenwald

Barack Obama has continued virtually all of George W. Bush and #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney’s once-controversial terrorism and civil liberties policies, a fact now recognized across the political spectrum. Even the right wing acknowledges these policies have continued under the Obama presidency, which is interesting, because for decades Republicans have made political hay by accusing Democrats of being weak on national security (or “soft on terrorism” in this age of terror).

This premise that the Obama administration has reversed the terror policies is wrong. The new administration has copied most of the Bush program, has expanded some of it and has narrowed only a bit. All of the Obama changes have been at the level of packaging, argumentation, symbol and rhetoric. -Jack Goldsmith

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, the CBO certainly seemed to think the stimulus has a positive impact. If Bush gets to take credit for keeping Americans safe post 9/11 you'd think Obama would get credit for keeping us out of a depression (and no attacks also :hihi)


If Obama was the idiot you claim he had plenty of chances to screw up the timeline for an Iraq withdrawal. As for terrorism, Obama certainly wasn't following the Bush playbook.


Yep, at the voting booth. People don't want to elect an angry pit bull president.

-spence

" If Bush gets to take credit for keeping Americans safe post 9/11 you'd think Obama would get credit for keeping us out of a depression "

Spence, what color is the sky in the world you live in? It is irrefutable fact that Al Queda did not successfully attack us after 09/11, as long as Bush was in power. You assertion that Obama similarly "saved" the economy is literally impossible to prove.

" and no attacks also"

Again, I have to question your grip of reality. ever hear of Ft Hood? And the bomber on the Detroit plane only failed because he was incompetent.

"As for terrorism, Obama certainly wasn't following the Bush playbook."

No? Really? When did Guantanimo Bay get shut down? when did the Patriot Act get repealed? When did Obama stop using predator drones to kill terrorists? I give Obama a fair amount of credit on the terrorism front, and all of his successes, from where I sit, are because he largely left the Bush administration's policies work as intended. The one change Obama made was to to try and make other nations like us more. What has that gotten us? ZIP.

"People don't want to elect an angry pit bull president."

You said the debates would decide. You said that, not me.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, what color is the sky in the world you live in? It is irrefutable fact that Al Queda did not successfully attack us after 09/11, as long as Bush was in power. You assertion that Obama similarly "saved" the economy is literally impossible to prove.

How do you know how many times they may have tried? How do you know we weren't headed to a depression?

The reality is, who's in charge often gets credit or blame. But like people understand Bush wasn't responsible for 9/11 the people alo know Obama inherited a mess of an economy. While this is going to drag on his campaign, Republican efforts to label it the "Obama Recession" will likely fail. Obama though has to be able to articulate the value of his policies better than he has.

Again, I have to question your grip of reality. ever hear of Ft Hood? And the bomber on the Detroit plane only failed because he was incompetent.

Clearly the intent of my comment was about Americans being harmed domestically due to a successful terror attack, otherwise I would have noted Richard Ried...

The Ft Hood shooting while tragic wasn't classified as an act of terrorism. The investigation seems to have shown that Hassan acted alone and had no terrorist links to an outside group. More likely his mental health issues and a reluctance to deploy sent him over the edge.

He's charged with premeditated murder, not terrorism.

No? Really? When did Guantanimo Bay get shut down? when did the Patriot Act get repealed? When did Obama stop using predator drones to kill terrorists? I give Obama a fair amount of credit on the terrorism front, and all of his successes, from where I sit, are because he largely left the Bush administration's policies work as intended. The one change Obama made was to to try and make other nations like us more. What has that gotten us? ZIP.

Obama hasn't closed GTMO because we can't find other nations to take who's left. Didn't he sign an order to have it closed his first day as president? That Obama hasn't closed GTMO yet isn't at all an endorsement of Bush policy, it's another one of Bush's messes he's been left to clean up.

As for the Patriot act, the big issue has always been oversight. As the Senate couldn't get amendments to the bill to a full vote, Obama signed it's renewal and is providing stronger enforcement through the Department of Justice. Again, a departure from Bush policy.

As for predator drones, Obama has again departed from the Bush policy to use drone strikes very selectively in sensitive areas and instead use them as a primary means to go after the enemy where they actually are...like in Pakistan and Yemen.

Obama certainly doesn't share the Bush policy for selective use of torture or remote detention facilities.

Obama certainly doesn't share the Bush tendency for unilateral action.

I'd say they've both shared a desire to promote democracy, but while Bush did it through massive military action, Obama has chosen to lean into opponents and let the local people have more influence over their future.

I'd say their approaches to foreign policy have some similarities, but mostly on inherited issues. For new events Obama has handled them perhaps in a dramatically different manner.

You said the debates would decide. You said that, not me.

I think the debates are very important to sway independent voters.

It's why Gingrich pushes for the Lincoln Douglas format so he can get into long-winded academic responses to weave philosophy with his deep knowledge of history. It's something he's very talented at...unfortunately it doesn't necessarily show leadership.

-spence