Affordable Care Act Supreme Court Hearings this week

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

You aren't obligated to own a car. Remember, driving is a privilege, not a right. If people don't like it, there's always a bicycle.

The tax payers are obligated to foot the bill of your medical costs if you are uninsured and get hurt.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

The tax payers are obligated to foot the bill of your medical costs if you are uninsured and get hurt.

are they?

I think it was Justice Breyer that made this broad suggestion yesterday as well, but I'm not sure that it is true...

I know a few people that were either injured or became quite ill needing cance treatments etc while uninsured....and the "tax payer" did not pay for their medical costs, most were covered/treated by help from charitable trusts through the hospitals, payment arrangements worked out through the various providers and on...I don't think that hospitals that admit patients or treat them in the emergency room can simply bill the taxpayer for services not paid by the uninsured....to suggest that anyone that needs medical services and can't pay for them at that time either out of pocket or through some form of insurance instantly places a financial burden on "the taxpayers" is...... "a stretch"

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by zimmy

The tax payers are obligated to foot the bill of your medical costs if you are uninsured and get hurt.

Originally Posted by scottw

are they?

I don't think that hospitals that admit patients or treat them in the emergency room can simply bill the taxpayer for services not paid by the uninsured....to suggest that anyone that needs medical services and can't pay for them at that time either out of pocket or through some form of insurance instantly places a financial burden on "the taxpayers" is...... "a stretch"

In a few states - like NY, they have a surcharge on claims to compensate hospitals for "uncompensated care". I think it is either a per monthly head count or a % of paid claims. The insurance company pays. It is built into the rate the insured pays.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

In a few states - like NY, they have a surcharge on claims to compensate hospitals for "uncompensated care". I think it is either a per monthly head count or a % of paid claims. The insurance company pays. It is built into the rate the insured pays.

"The insurance company pays."

I don't think that's true. If the patient is uninsured, how does the hospital know which insurance company to bill? You're saying that surcharge is passed on to all insurance carriers? Maybe. Anyone know for sure?

I'm guessing that hospitals write off a ton of uncollected (and never to be collected) medical bills from folks who can't pay.

This problem isn't getting solved no matter what happens. My objection ha snothing to do with paying for others, my objection is based on the unconstitutionality of it, IMHO of course...

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"My objection ha snothing to do with paying for others, my objection is based on the unconstitutionality of it, IMHO of course...

So..
It's the right thing to do, but the wrong way to do it?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

So..
It's the right thing to do, but the wrong way to do it?

In my opinion, yes. I don't think that people who get sick (through no fault of their own) should have to pay one cent more for medical costs than healthy people. None of us control who gets sick and who doesn't (for many diseases), so it seems fair that we share the costs. I just don't think you should ignore the constitution to do it.

Also, I would't apply this to people who choose to eat like pigs or smoke, they should pay the costs of their medical care.

It's a brutal problem, I don't pretend to have any brilliant insights...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"The insurance company pays."

I don't think that's true. If the patient is uninsured, how does the hospital know which insurance company to bill? They don't, the state govern. sends out the $ based on the total uncompensated care and the amount of surcharge collected You're saying that surcharge is passed on to all insurance carriers? Maybe. Anyone know for sure?IT is passed onto any carriers doing business in that state.

I'm guessing that hospitals write off a ton of uncollected (and never to be collected) medical bills from folks who can't pay.I would guess so.

NY also has a surcharge to subsidize teaching hospitals.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by PaulS

In a few states - like NY, they have a surcharge on claims to compensate hospitals for "uncompensated care". I think it is either a per monthly head count or a % of paid claims. The insurance company pays. It is built into the rate the insured pays.

In all cases, the bill is somehow paid. If the hospital covers it, it is passed on to everyone in their hospital bills. If the hospital uses the losses as a write-off- the tax revenues are made up somewhere else (or put on the credit card of our kids), if the insurance companies pay a surcharge- it affects our insurance rates.

In any case, I do think the constitutionality of the health care law treads a thin line, but so does passing off the cost of the uninsured to everyone else and that is established by prior practice for decades.

[spence]

Originally Posted by zimmy

In all cases, the bill is somehow paid. If the hospital covers it, it is passed on to everyone in their hospital bills. If the hospital uses the losses as a write-off- the tax revenues are made up somewhere else (or put on the credit card of our kids), if the insurance companies pay a surcharge- it affects our insurance rates.

In any case, I do think the constitutionality of the health care law treads a thin line, but so does passing off the cost of the uninsured to everyone else and that is established by prior practice for decades.

A good point made today on Morning Joe, have you every known anyone who didn't use health care in their lifetime?

David Brooks had a good opinion piece yesterday...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/op...ef=davidbrooks

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

A good point made today on Morning Joe, have you every known anyone who didn't use health care in their lifetime?

David Brooks had a good opinion piece yesterday...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/op...ef=davidbrooks

-spence

no, I dont.
Nor do I know anyone who didnt use food stores, some form of transportation, eat at restaurants or buy toilet paper.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

no, I dont.
Nor do I know anyone who didnt use food stores, some form of transportation, eat at restaurants or buy toilet paper.

Do they pay the bill when they do those other things?

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

no, I dont.
Nor do I know anyone who didnt use food stores, some form of transportation, eat at restaurants or buy toilet paper.

Big difference, with all of those items there are already set costs. The argument made by the Administration is that the price of health care is heavily influenced by how one pays for it.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

have you every known anyone who didn't use health care in their lifetime?

-spence

Once again you miss the point entirely. It doesn't matter, as far as the constitutionality of the law is concerned, that everyone will use healthcare at some point.

Everyone will die at some point. That doesn't mean the feds can mandate how we handle our funeral arrangements.

Everyone eats food. That doesn't mean the feds can mandate a healthy diet for all of us.

Spence, you need to seperate your love of Obama from the question of constitutionality. Just because this was Obama's idea, doesn't necessarily mean it's constitutional. Obama's agenda is not a litmus test for constitutionality. The number of people impacted by healthcare is absolutely, conmpletely meaningless to the Supreme Court.

[scottw]

I feel bad for the Solicitor General...must be rough being laughed at in the Supreme Court when you are trying to defend landmark legislation...

someone mentioned Justice Thomas, I don't know about questions he asked or didn't ask but I'm sure he was wondering how it is possible that this legislation was signed by a President who some claim was a Constitutional scholar of some sort and sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution....passed by a Congress(needing every trick in the book employed) made up of many people with legal backgrounds and sworn, I think, to uphold and defend the Constitution,.... and now argued by a guy who, I guess, is supposed to have some knowledge of what he is arguing with regard to the Constution....

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Once again you miss the point entirely. It doesn't matter, as far as the constitutionality of the law is concerned, that everyone will use healthcare at some point.

It matters because if people are going to use health care they are going to participate in interstate commerce regardless if they're paying for it or not. If everybody is participating then there's no real argument that someone can really opt out.

Jim, I actually read the entire transcript from yesterday...have you?

-spence