In economic speech, Obama reveals true colors (and reveals he is insane)

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

You guys are funny.

Good to know we have some value for you.

Obama wasn't taking a shot at business owners, he was intentionally provoking the GOP.

He wasn't "taking a shot", he was very clearly placing them in a collectivist context where dependence on society is the rationale of their existence. He was reframing our system into one in which the foundation is the collective group administered to by government which directs the "success" of its individuals rather than one that depends on the success of its individuals to sustain the success of society and its government.

At least us "guys" are funny. What is the benefit of provoking us?

Read the full transcript and I'd wager a clear majority of voters would agree with him.
Once again, this is the problem when you form opinions from sound bites.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

OK, so I read it. Other than the "sound bites" quoted here, the rest of it was the usual political platitudes, lies, distortions, contradictions, and promises one would expect from a politician running for re-election. Other than the "sound bites" (which were truly revealing), the rest is the typical pablum meant to "provoke" agreement.

[Jim in CT]

At a minimum, Obama believes that business owners owe their success to the government which created the system in which they could thrive.

It's true that the feds created a capitalist free market which allows some to excel. However, what Obama fails to acknowledge (probably because he genuinely doesn't believe this) is that the system can only take you to the starting line. The individual, not the government, is largely responsible for the outcome of the race.

I cannot believe this guy has a shot at re-election.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

At a minimum, Obama believes that business owners owe their success to the government which created the system in which they could thrive.

I agree with the first part of your statement, but would suggest a word of caution on the second half. It wasn't the present federal government that created the system in which business owners could thrive. It was individuals (many of whom were business owners) representing the States who created the government, not vice versa, and they carefully crafted a Constitution which was supposed to prevent the Federal Government from imposing regulations and taxes that would hamper their ability to thrive.

It's true that the feds created a capitalist free market which allows some to excel. However, what Obama fails to acknowledge (probably because he genuinely doesn't believe this) is that the system can only take you to the starting line. The individual, not the government, is largely responsible for the outcome of the race.

Now it's the second part of your statement that I agree with, and the first part to which I would advise a word of caution. The feds did not create a capitalist free market. That market already existed, and the Federal Government was reformed in order for that market to be allowed a more regular and free flow among the States, and the Constitution was to greatly restrict the Federal Government's regulatory power to specified limitations. And, yes, this was to, as you say, make the individual largely responsible for the outcome of the race.

I cannot believe this guy has a shot at re-election.

This is a result of a century of "progressive" socialistic political philosophy infiltrating our educational systems which in turn spawned journalists and commentators and judges and polititions who espoused that philosophy and reshaped a good portion of society to be dependent instead of self-sustaining. It is a philosophy that insists, as Obama demonstrated in his speech, that self-actuating, self-sustaining individuals are not possible. Ergo, the Federal Government that the Founders created, and limited, was an impediment to a society whose individuals depended on others, especially a beneficent central government.

[likwid]

Context is everything, the only desperate folks around here are you guys trying to analyze it by itself.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

Nope, it wasn't YOU who toiled away with building this. Rather, it was the FCC! Hooray for the government!! John, therefore you OWE it to the rest of us to give even more of your revenue to the feds. Otherwise, you are a selfish, greedy, bastard.

Jim, why do you hate JohnR? Why do you think he's a selfish greedy bastard? He puts in alot more work to keep this place running than you do. You should apologize to JohnR. Right now.
You make me sad.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

Context is everything, the only desperate folks around here are you guys trying to analyze it by itself.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.



Jim, why do you hate JohnR? Why do you think he's a selfish greedy bastard? He puts in alot more work to keep this place running than you do. You should apologize to JohnR. Right now.
You make me sad.

Likwid, if you read my post and concluded that I hate John R, you desperately need to take an elementary school reading comprehension course.

I was saying that based on what Obama explicitly said, John R didn't build this site. In Obama's words, "someone else made that happen". Therefore, if you believe Obama, John R doesn't deserve any rewards that this site provides. Those rewards rightfully belong to the "someone else" that Obama says created this site, and that "someone else", according to Obama, is the government.

Likwid, everything I wrote in that post, is what Obama, not I, clearly believe. Obama, not I, thinks that John R didn't create this great site. SO if you think my words were hurtful to John, then you must also think that Obama's sentiment, which I was relying on, was wrong.

So in effect, you proved my point. Thanks for the assist.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Likwid, if you read my post and concluded that I hate John R, you desperately need to take an elementary school reading comprehension course.

Jim, you called JohnR a selfish greedy bastard, your words.
Why are you trying to put your words into context you dirty liar?

This type of hypocrasy is disgusting. You should leave this site and go to "the other place" immediately where people like you belong.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.[/I]

Likwid, who is suggesting that we all start our own firehouses?

What Obama did there, and you sucked it up like a Hoover deluxe, is put radical, extremist, kooky words in the mouth of those who disagree with him.

Likwid, no rational person opopses property taxes being levied to fund a fire department. However, a very strong case can be made that you shouldn't take so much from me in taxes, so that the firemen can retire at age 45 with a fat pension and insane health benefits for teh rest of his life.

It's perfectly valid to question the validity of fire department benefits that are bankrupting cities everywhere. Rather than engage in that discussion, Obama says "see, conservatives want to get rid of the fire department".

We don't want to get rid of the fire department. We just don't want to overpay them.

That's off topic. But the point is, liberals have a recurring habit of taking a conservative issue, and taking it to a kooky extreme, in order to dismiss it. So in this case, Obama suggests that Republicans are suggesting we should get rid of the fire department. In reality, no one is saying that. But it's a lot easier for liberals to pretend that conservatives are a bunch of lunatics who want to get rid of the fire department, than it is to defend those insane benefits that firemen receive.

Put down the Kool Aid for 2 seconds, and listen to what each side is saying. Don't listen to what MSNBC says that conservatives are saying. Listen to what we are actually saying.

Small businesses have a responsibility to pay taxes to support the system that allows them to thrive. They should not be forced to pay confiscatory tax rates, particularly when that money is wasted to create burdensome regulation, or to go to political payoffs like Planned Parenthood funding, or billions to wasteful green energy projects, or to welfare priograms that give poor teenagers a financial incentive to have kids out of wedlock. That's what conservatives object to.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Listen to what we are actually saying.

You sound like you belong in a trailer park.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

You sound like you belong in a trailer park.

OK. If I ask you to judge me based on what I am actually saying and what I actually stand for, I'm trailer trash. Got it.

Once again. I did not sincerely insult John R. My point, and it is valid, is that Obama is calling entrepeneurs like John R selfish. Obama insults these entrepeneurs almost every single time he opens his mouth, because he explicitly states that entrepeneurs (1) are not responsible for their own success, and (2) don't want to pay their fair share to help those less fortunate.

I say kudos to John for creating this site. I hope it keeps growing and he sells it for a zillion dollars, I truly hope that. I, unlike Obama, recognize that I'm here learning about fishing, thanks to his hard work. John deserves teh credit for this site, not the feds.

Likwid, you could not have missed my point any more thoroughly, and you're probably the only one here who thinks I was sincerely calling John R selfish.

I also hope you note that you insulted me personally, and that I did not respond in kind.