Kerry - Swift Boats

[spence]

Originally posted by afterhours
spence, if what i'm reading is true, i think his service was less than honorable.

Is this a balanced observation or are you basing your opinion on his service on what someone who is motivated by his post-war actions has said?

-spence

[spence]

Originally posted by Eben
Sorry, but when I see a leak in my boat I jump ship I dont go down with it.

As an aside, if there is a war and Eben and I are drafted...please let the record show that I don't want to be in his boat

-spence

[Nebe]

but Spence... if we both jumped ship, you could be my Vice P-

[afterhours]

eben, you're a bright guy who maks a some good points ie: free trade agreements(they suck). i just think that kerry is more of a snake(no disrespect to snakes). in war i believe you fight for your fellow soldiers next to you, he deserted them. as far as iran goes i agree with you, i predicted this in a post - election side effects. i think kerry is the worst of the evils at this time. less trust in him than anyone out there.

[spence]

I agree you don't leave your men, and when Eben jumps ship I'll probably still be in the boat I don't know if you can really say Kerry "abandoned" his men though. At what point is enough enough? Unless you were there, I don't see how anyone can argue his wounds weren't really that bad etc...and of the limited people who do have firsthand experience the comments seem to go both ways.

The net of it all is that it doesn't really make much sense to be bickering over Kerry's purple hearts in a near Monty Python fashion when the coutry has real issues to solve.

You mention trust as being so important, and I agree it is one of the most important qualities in a leader.

So what you're saying is that you feel less trust in Kerry based on the behavior of a very young man fighting in a very nasty war...

...than you do in our current President, when (by current polls) almost half the country believes he misled the country on Iraq?

Something to ponder.

-spence

[Nebe]

Yeah but Afterhours Kerry fought next to his soldiers for 3 tours of duty....He didnt desert them... when he was done he went home.. IMO Bush deserted in a huge fashion by going AWOL for a whole year when he was in the Air national guard.. I gotta say that to me, bush is the biggest snake out there, and when you read into what he's about, its all lies and coverups...
Heres another coverup.. the 'no child left behind' act.. remember that one? I dont know the exact numbers, but lets say he cuts education funding by 30% and no-one hears about it.. then theres all this talk in the news about how bush is passing the 'no child left behind act'..... We wouldnt have to worry about any child being left behind if he hadnt cut 30% of the educational budget

I still think Kerry will steer our country to a better place than bush will..

[spence]

Ummmm....technically federal funding for education has gone up under Bush

-spence

[Bill L]

I hate politics

[Skip N]

3 tours of duty? Wasnt he there for 4 months? wouldnt 3 tours of duty meen he was there for 3 years?

[Nebe]

gotta check skip... but i'm almost certian it was 3 tours of duty-

Spence.. really? hmm I guess I was wrong-

Toonoc- soo do i but I hate whats going on more than I hate polotics

[spence]

Originally posted by afterhours
spence, if what i'm reading is true, i think his service was less than honorable.

Thought I would also pass this along. George Elliot is one of the swiftvets against Kerry. Here's what george had to say about John Kerry in 1969...

"In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity. On one occasion, while in tactical command of a three boat operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several KIA. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach. He has of his own volition learned the Vietnamese language and is instrumental in the successful Vietnamese training program. During the period of this report LTJG Kerry has been awarded the Silver Star medal, the Bronze Star medal, the Purple Heart medal (2nd and 3rd awards)."[U.S. Navy, Officer Fitness Report signed by George Elliott; 18, Dec 1969]

And then in 1996 He said this about John Kerry...

"The fact that he chased an armed enemy down is not something not to be looked down upon but it was an act of courage. And the whole outfit served with honor..."[T]here was no question that it was above and beyond anything that we had seen down there in that case at that time frame...It just so happened that this one was so outstanding that the Silver Star was eventually awarded." [Kerry Press Conference, 10/27/96]

Then Elliot calls him a liar in the swiftvet commercial, then retracts it

[spence]

Originally posted by Eben
gotta check skip... but i'm almost certian it was 3 tours of duty-

Spence.. really? hmm I guess I was wrong-

Toonoc- soo do i but I hate whats going on more than I hate polotics

He served a bit over 4 months, taking the option to leave early because he had 3 Purple Hearts.

Education spending has gone up, but don't think No Child Left Behind isn't still a sham. There isn't a method for the schools who need help to get it and the money isn't really being used. The act punishes schools punatively for not meeting the criteria.

The net effect is that schools are teaching for the tests and the kids suffer...

-spence

[Skip N]

I could be wrong Ebon But I totally thought he served 4 months then left. Sorry for them F bombs also! I get all riled up like most talking politics!

[Nebe]

'tis alright Skip, F-bombs have thier place.... especially in the Senate.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/upda...02/02_400.html a good side by side comparrison of Kerry and Bush durring Vietnam... and it looks like I was mistaken about 3 years of service.. but he was wounded 3 times hich sent him home.. my bad

Spence... yeah I read mother Jones... I admit it

[mrmacey]

[Skip N]

F-bombs have thier place.... especially in the Senate

[afterhours]

MRMACEY- I HOPE YOU HEAR THE POP.

[mrmacey]

I hear it!! I hear it!!!

[afterhours]

mrmacey betcha 4 quality plugs that you're wrong. you can view some of my work on plug building forum. do you want your taxes to be raised to support lazy people who play the system? better you than me! never claimed to love gwb, just can stand kerry. btw i'm an independant voter and don't blindly follow part lines as some.

[afterhours]

mrmacey what happened to your last post- it's gone.

[Nebe]

Afterhours.. lazy people can still play the system now with Bush in office... Would you rather have country with a multi-trillion dollar deficet and kids dying every day so we can continue Bush's "crusade"?

The way Bush is cutting taxes and spending more is like a teenager with his first credit card someone is going to have to pay for it sooner or later...

[afterhours]

maybe i just remember the tax AND spend days of past dem. administrations (carter). and the diverting the $$$ from intelligence agencies (slick willie) that i believe had a direct impact on 9/11. i don't like giant deficets or kids dying . i want them home asap. maybe chrisl was right- the wabbit hunter for pres

[afterhours]

momma told me never to talk politics online.....

[mrmacey]

http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/d...com%2Funb.html

used the girls shirt.

[RIJIMMY]

I really cannot comprehend most of the anti - Bush comments.

Eben - He'll go after Iran or North Korea (remember they actually do have WMD)... i'd bet a plug on that, and then how many people will have died? does anyone have kids that are about 16 or 18?? you can probably count on a draft in that case-

What if we DID go after Afghanistan, pre- 9/11? You'd be saying the same thing. But what if, just if, it could have prevented 9/11?? What if?
9/11 was a wake up call for me. I dont give a crap about the UN and they have NO say in the security of MY country.
Look at the UN security council, in 200 years we pretty much had wars with all of them, think they love the US? Think they give a crap about 9/11????

One point to ponder - If Bush was a criminal and a liar - how incredibly easy would it have been to take 20 barrels of sarin gas, a few al-queda manuals and a map of new york and stick them in a bunker in Iraq? Way too easy.. It would ensured Bush's re-election and snubbed all the countries that were against our invasion
The fact that the US did not find WMD only proves Bush is not as dishonest as you say he is.


I'm employed, my company is growing, the economy survived a stock market crash and a terror attack and - we've had NO terrortist attacks on US soil ince 9/11. BUSH - 2004, I hope the next 4 years are as good as this.

[spence]

Originally posted by RIJIMMY
One point to ponder - If Bush was a criminal and a liar - how incredibly easy would it have been to take 20 barrels of sarin gas, a few al-queda manuals and a map of new york and stick them in a bunker in Iraq? Way too easy.. It would ensured Bush's re-election and snubbed all the countries that were against our invasion
The fact that the US did not find WMD only proves Bush is not as dishonest as you say he is.

This is perhaps the most absurd thing I have ever heard, next to Eben promising he could get me a keeper

What your saying is that since Bush didn't toss a kilo of coke into the trunk as he was inspecting the car, the police are somehow more credible???

9/11 was a wakeup call. Agreed, so why did the Bush admin fight the 9/11 panel's creation and almost refuse to testify before it? Why did Bush refuse to speak under oath before the panel and only with #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney by his side?

Why is it almost three years since 9/11 and very little has changed in our intelligence services?

Why do 55% of the American people believe we are headed in the wrong direction?

Why does almost helf the country believe Bush misled the country on WMD in Iraq?



-spence

[Nebe]

Originally posted by RIJIMMY
BUSH - 2004, I hope the next 4 years are as good as this.

enlighten me.. what do you think the next 4 years will be like? Do you think He'll go after Iran or N Korea? Do you think there will be another attack?

Can you honestly say with a straight face that Bush has never decieved the Citizens of the United states?

[Nebe]

Originally posted by spence
This is perhaps the most absurd thing I have ever heard, next to Eben promising he could get me a keeper
-spence

IF you gave me 20 bucks... you never gave me 20 bucks

no wait.. the keepers were there acording to the intellegence givin to me at that time.. but rest assured the narragansett coastline is a safer place since we fishied it... even if there were no keepers and the intelegence was faulty, narraganset is safer

[spence]

Originally posted by Eben
no wait.. the keepers were there acording to the intellegence givin to me at that time.. but rest assured the narragansett coastline is a safer place since we fishied it... even if there were no keepers and the intelegence was faulty, narraganset is safer [/B]

Eben, we are one

-spence

[Nebe]

Wait a minute...I must spend trillions of my baby diaper budget trying to find these keepers that dont exist.. You see, my buddy who ownes the tackleshop is going to make a killing off me, and when I retire from fishing, he's going to take real good care of me

Even though there really are keepers at block island.... I'm still staying the course