Trophy fish

[Flaptail]

There are a zillion fish, trouble is they are mostly small. There is, or was, a lack of bait, big bait up around these parts ( Cape Cod) but there are signs that at least maybe, just maybe, the bunker are coming back (adult bunker), jury is still out.

The outer beach has issues. Seals eating bait and bigger seals eating fish we like to catch and occasionally the fish we are hooked up to at the moment. Work ethic was much more inspiring when there was cash to be made without all the red tape, now the fish for sport crowd for the most part doesn't put that extra little push into it, so..... the real picture is somewhat still fuzzy.

Right now the bait is thick off of the beaches (hence finbacks and Humpies close in chowing sandeels). Seals made little seals and are preoccupied with that but not for long and then they will be back patrolling the shore fom Monomoy to P-Town. Fish have a slight touch of intelligence and stay away from the beach and go to where the seals aren't and the bait is. This leaves the shore bound guy s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g wind while a mile away his boat bound buds are bailing them on Salty's needles.

What we needs to be done ( and I cannot for the life of me believe I am saying this) is a. make it a gamefish and b. install a slot limit. c. ban forever the taking of river herring and menhaden for commercial or sport purposes.

Lastly, and the tree huggers will love me for this one, we need to thin the seal herds by 2/3rds and control them to practical levels. Seal birth control would do. Just lace something in a bunch of treated baits. Don't kill them (though it would make fine sport) just make them infertile.

Lastly practice catch and release whenever your need for food fish has been met and satisfied.

( fixed the damm soapbox don't ya know)

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

There are a zillion fish, trouble is they are mostly small. There is, or was, a lack of bait, big bait up around these parts ( Cape Cod) but there are signs that at least maybe, just maybe, the bunker are coming back (adult bunker), jury is still out.

The outer beach has issues. Seals eating bait and bigger seals eating fish we like to catch and occasionally the fish we are hooked up to at the moment. Work ethic was much more inspiring when there was cash to be made without all the red tape, now the fish for sport crowd for the most part doesn't put that extra little push into it, so..... the real picture is somewhat still fuzzy.

Right now the bait is thick off of the beaches (hence finbacks and Humpies close in chowing sandeels). Seals made little seals and are preoccupied with that but not for long and then they will be back patrolling the shore fom Monomoy to P-Town. Fish have a slight touch of intelligence and stay away from the beach and go to where the seals aren't and the bait is. This leaves the shore bound guy s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g wind while a mile away his boat bound buds are bailing them on Salty's needles.

What we needs to be done ( and I cannot for the life of me believe I am saying this) is a. make it a gamefish and b. install a slot limit. c. ban forever the taking of river herring and menhaden for commercial or sport purposes.

Next, and the tree huggers will love me for this one, we need to thin the seal herds by 2/3rds and control them to practical levels. Seal birth control would do. Just lace something in a bunch of treated baits. Don't kill them (though it would make fine sport) just make them infertile.

Lastly, practice catch and release whenever your need for food fish has been met and satisfied.

( fixed the damm soapbox don't ya know)

Well said and rightly so, Flaptail, providing that the slot limit allows for ONE to be kept outside of the slot ~similar to redfish and snook in FL.

i especially agree with the ban on herring and bunker, although 'forever' seems a little extreme. if we return the premium forage of our beloved MoSax to epic numbers, then i believe that we'll see the younger ones getting bigger quicker; thereby increasing the LAHHHGE genepool and decreasing the amounts of racers. imho, there are far toooo many lean and mean Stripers gracing our shores. give them back their forage in ABUNDANCE for 7 to 10 years and then let's see where the biomass yields itself.

i will venture a guess that the COWS would triple with the combination of gamefish status, slot limits, more and plentiful protein laden bunker, and a "sensible" way to slow down the seal population. Lacing meat with chemicals of any kind sounds like a slippery slope with regards to the entirity of the seas and the food chain themselves.

more pogies certainly could not hurt our oceans and estuaries either.
something has to give, before the whole system breaks. and there is science to suggest, that it already has been broken. will our generation have the stones to at least attempt to be proactive rather than reactive? only time and good judgement will tell......................

oh yeah, thanks for trying, Steve!

[Skitterpop]

I for one firmly #@%^*)(%$@$$@#$^^*(^%$%$@$%&^^^**&#@#%&*%$@#%^$^%*&^^(*&()*+&^%$%#@#% #&%&()*&*%#O)($@#&@#$%$#%^$^%*(^&*_^()_+(+))^%&^*&(*)()($^&%**(*%^#%^$W#%@#^%&%^&*_(+)*%%$^&^^^%R#^%&*)()@$(*_)($ !#^$*)^@#$#Y%$%&**I&(**_)_(+*+(_+(+)+(%$#^%&*&_)*# %$*((*

and that is why I will catch the next 80 lb $#$%^%&&*(**((+_(*&%^%$%$@%$IO()(&%$#@$#%$(*_*)(&%$#%$!@#%T&*^)(O(*{)(_^*$%%$_)*^%%$#$#!@%#Y^%^%%* ^$$&Y%*&U^Y%*&^&*()*_+__+()*(&&^%^%$#576(*%^$&**(* 64&&*_)(_))&%^&*(*^%$78890(089&%$%&*^&())*(*)_)*+_ (_+)++_+_((&*&&^%%$%$#%%%$46870$#%$%&*

I rest my case

[Gunpowder]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

I for one firmly #@%^*)(%$@$$@#$^^*(^%$%$@$%&^^^**&#@#%&*%$@#%^$^%*&^^(*&()*+&^%$%#@#% #&%&()*&*%#O)($@#&@#$%$#%^$^%*(^&*_^()_+(+))^%&^*&(*)()($^&%**(*%^#%^$W#%@#^%&%^&*_(+)*%%$^&^^^%R#^%&*)()@$(*_)($ !#^$*)^@#$#Y%$%&**I&(**_)_(+*+(_+(+)+(%$#^%&*&_)*# %$*((*

and that is why I will catch the next 80 lb $#$%^%&&*(**((+_(*&%^%$%$@%$IO()(&%$#@$#%$(*_*)(&%$#%$!@#%T&*^)(O(*{)(_^*$%%$_)*^%%$#$#!@%#Y^%^%%* ^$$&Y%*&U^Y%*&^&*()*_+__+()*(&&^%^%$#576(*%^$&**(* 64&&*_)(_))&%^&*(*^%$78890(089&%$%&*^&())*(*)_)*+_ (_+)++_+_((&*&&^%%$%$#%%%$46870$#%$%&*

I rest my case

anyone have a spare decoder

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by ptmike

I have also read that larger fish, 40 lbrs and up, are not as fecund as the 15-30 lbrs.

I read just the opposite, with studies always showing that not only do older fish (of any species) yield more eggs but that those eggs are just as healthy and often more so then their younger counterparts.

Just try and find a article that says old fish produce less or less viable eggs. I dare you. Maybe there's a needle in the haystack out there but I couldn't find it. All I could find was that older = better when it comes to spawning success, fecundity, and egg viability.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Then why do they release Broodstock Salmon after they pass their prime from the fisheries as part of the stocking program?

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Then why do they release Broodstock Salmon after they pass their prime from the fisheries as part of the stocking program?

Key word..PAST their prime.... these fish are also raised in a controlled enviroment.. no seals, commerants or human beings to supply predation... it's the perfect control..

Flap nailed it dead nuts... Everyone seems to forget that large fish have already run the gauntlet, survived predation from seals and fish eating birds, there is far less waste in a 16-20" fish that there is on a large one... if you dont think so... why then, back when 16" was the legal limit for sale, did schoolies and mediums fetch a higher dollar value than their large brethren....

I've caught more than my share of trophy fish... it would be nice if there was a chance for my grandchildren to fish for the quality fish that I have been blessed to fish for and catch., I rarely keep bass anymore, when I do, most of the time it's one that is just legal, the rest are returned to the sea for someone else to enjoy, and from my own littoral scociety tagging returns, I just may be the recipiant of my own conservation.. this isnt coming from a tree hugger, I'm a former comercial fisherman, not a weekend warrior either, I earned my full paycheck from the sea for years, comercial striped bass fishing was just a cog in the wheel, I dug clams, ran a scallop dredge, gill netted cod all winter and fished for tuna inbetween.... sometimes we do learn and realize a few things as we grow older...

My .02
Roc

[2na]

Thank you Dad -

Steve, nice points: however, as much as we would like it to in our perfect world, the real world does not revolve around our fishing agenda and we are in the minority, so a snowball's chance. If there were enough motivated people with the money behind them then you could make waves to get some changes made. Like the seal problem, there is no choice except to roll with the punches and hope the breaks go our way. Hey, look how fast things change - could you ever believe 7-8 years ago that seals would become such an issue? Maybe the law of unintended consequences will rear its ugly head to the benefit of the fish stock.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Then why do they release Broodstock Salmon after they pass their prime from the fisheries as part of the stocking program?

Couldn't tell you, I'm not a scientist. Just relaying what I see anytime I put the words "fecundity, age, striped bass" or similar into Google. Interestingly though a search for "fecundity, age, salmon" immediately returns reports that some salmon DO have reduced fecundity with age while other salmon don't.

One of the first reports I came across though for Atlantic Salmon in that search concluded "Benefit of the body size was not only quantitative but also qualitative in reproduction success of River Teno Atlantic Salmon. Total number of eggs was higher in large females than in smaller ones but when the number of eggs was related to body weight there was no difference amongst females of different sizes. Instead of producing more eggs per unit of body weight, large females invest more in the egg quality than small females."

I'm sure with more digging something that counters that could be found, but again, it's easy to find articles that big (not necessarily old) Atlantic Salmon are better breeders.

[Skitterpop]

I to have heard more than a few times that very large female Striped Bass carry more eggs and are the top breeders. Don`t remember where I`ve read that. Any icthyologists here?

[2na]

I've read (somewhere) that yes, the larger bass have more eggs, but as they age the eggs are not as fertile. Wish I could put my finger on it.

[Skitterpop]

After about 3 years, at the juvenile stage, the females begin to migrate to the ocean where they mature. The males tend to remain in the estuary longer than the females. After 5 to 7 years, females return to spawn for the first time. It takes several years for spawning females to reach full productivity.

[ **** An average 6 year old female produces half a million eggs while a 15 year old can produce three million. ]

[numbskull]

Older fish produce eggs with more lipid energy (larger lipid globules), which in turn gives their larvae a survival advantage when food is scarce.
Older fish have exponentially more eggs per pound of body mass. That means a 40 lb fish carries tens of times more eggs than a 10 lb fish. Killing a single 40 lb fish has the same spawning effect as killing tens of 10 lb fish.
Older fish spawn earlier in the season than smaller fish, which broadens the likelihood of the species total spawning success (some years larvae survival conditions are better early, some years late.....therefore the chances of a good year class are better when spawning is spread out)

Here is another link that has some very pertinent (although not species specific) information on the value of large spawning fish (about 1/2 way thru the article). http://hmsc.oregonstate.edu/HsO/PDF/...0Fisheries.pdf

Plan for the future, guys. Eat the 28" fish, brag about the big ones you let go, but killing a big one just to "prove" you caught it and build your reputation as a stud fisherman is shortsighted and selfish in this day and age.........even if once upon a time it was the sign of a fisherman worth admiring.

[2na]

Thank you for enlightening me George -

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Plan for the future, guys. Eat the 28" fish,

When a keeper was 36" and I used to go to fish meetings.. ,They told us the female Striped Bass does not spawn until about 30". It was explained to me the reason the size limit was 36",,, they would be assured the fish had spawned at least once .. Is this true .. and if so why are we taking pre spawn 28" fish . Doesn't make sense ..

[zimmy]

what numbskull said

[Flaptail]

Best idea yet....carry a camera w/ you & take a picture of it if you need to brag (of course you need to get a memory stick bigger than the 16 shot one that comes with the camera George, just in case you have a big night or more likely still, I have a big night and need someone to take my picture(s))

That solves everything you get to release the fish to fight another day and you get proof of your prowess!

"I like it, simple and easy to follow" Jack Sparrow

[justfishin]

I think that Flaptail addressed most of the points that we should be concerned with. The only thing that yet needs to be addressed is the pre-spawn slaughter of COWS staging to enter the rivers off of Virginia, which has been growing exponentially the past few years and the Spring fishing in the major spawning rivers while the females are bedding. Until these things are made illegal or brought under strict control, the Large Bass will remain scarce in the East Coast migrations. They are simply culling too high of a percentage of LARGE from the otherwise"healthy" population.