Increase in commercial quota for next year

[striperman36]

I agree with Clammer and with the current management I do not think you'll ever get a change to gamefish status
Most of that runoff into the Bay is from the poultry business, Purdue makes their contract growers deal the crap. = to about an additional 4.5 million people flushing raw sewage into Cheasapeake Bay.
Manure becomes pollutant as its volume grows unmanageable

[The Dad Fisherman]

This thread is the Prime example of what the real problem is....nobody can get there %$%$%$%$e together and get on the same page.

These threads pop up every few months and they always follow the same Template..

"My way is the Right way, your way is the wrong way, and its the other guys fault"

Maybe if you guys changed the template to read...

"I have some ideas that with the addition of your ideas, and if we both accept responsibilty for the issue, may be able to fix this"

In all honesty the only way to make sure that Striped Bass thrive....is to take up golf.

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by piemma

I am just amazed at the level of stupidity being displayed by ASMFC



"on November 9th the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission will vote on on the proposal to expand the coastal commercial quota for striped bass. Stripers Forever is strongly opposed to this idea on all grounds. Here are the states that voted in favor of this commercial expansion in past meetings:


North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Rhode Island, Connecticut


The vote in favor was 10 to 6, so we need to change two votes in order for the increase to be denied - other districts and organizations have votes also.

I've been following this closely, and have stayed in direct contact with Nichola Meserve, the Fisheries Management Plan Coordinator for striped bass, since the hearings on this subject which I know some of you attended.

Despite which side of the table you're on, I think it's important to point out that what you read above is not exactly true. On November 9th, the ASMFC Management Board will be reviewing the public comment received (which I'll touch on below), and make their descision. Individual states have no vote in their decision. The states mentioned above simply voted in favor of sending the proposed Ammendment II to Article 6 to the ASMFC Technical Committe, Management board, and public comment.

If the ASMFC decides to allow commercial increase (which is only one of the issues on the table here), THEN each state will have the option of either implementing the allowed increase or not.

In other words, if they DO decide to allow an increase in the coastal commercial quota, there will then be work to be done on a state by state level as each state will have to decide if they will change their regulations to use the allowed increase or not.

Here is Ms. Meserve's email to me, after the close of the public comment period, when I asked for her feelings of the general consensus of the public comments received.

SubjectRe: Question - Striped Bass Draft Addendum II
Sendernmeserve@asmfc.org
Recipientjake@stripercoastsurfcasters.us
Date15.10.2010 11:29

Hi Jacob,

You have excellent timing, as I just finished summarizing the comments yesterday. Including comments received at hearings and via mail/email/fax, the total count is over 2200 comments. The vast majority of comments supported Option 1- Status Quo for Issue 1- Coastal Commercial Quotas, and Option 2- Revise the Definition for Issue 2 - Recruitment Failure Definition. A public comment summary with the tally by state and in total, along with the reasons given in support of the options will be included in the Management Board's briefing materials, which should be available on the ASMFC website within 1-2 weeks. The Management Board will meet on November 9 to review the comment and vote on the options in the draft addendum.

Regards,
Nichola

Nichola Meserve
Fisheries Management Plan Coordinator
Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission
ph: (202) 289-6400 f: (202) 289-6051

[Mr. Sandman]

I think the bass is in a lot more trouble (on several fronts than the scientists think.

Personally I have given this a lot of thought and my own view is that we should

a) reduce rec to 1 fish (any length...simple effective, min kill)
b) no comm activity.
c) push hard to replenish bait stocks coast-wide.

I really think this would rebuild the fishery and maintain the economic strength that rec fishing produces.

Basically I am in support of game-fish status because it basically does this minimal fuss, granted game fish does nothing to improve bait stocks but at least it addresses a and b.

[Saltheart]

Any solution that affects only coms or recs is just not smart. It will get beaten down as selfish by the opposite group. You have to include both in any solution.

To me , a reduction to 1 fish a day for recs would be fair. You can play around with the size but 1 fish a day is enough. You go fishing , you get to take one home if you catch it. That satisfies a lot of issues for recs.

Commercial also needs to give. I think its crazy that any form of fishing does not have to keep and sell anyfinfish they get as a bicatch. If you catch it in a net , it is almost 100 percent sure to die so you must find a home for it. This means a big difference in wasted dead fish and also a big difference in what's reported towards the commercial quota.

I also think there is nothing we can do about changing the way farmers a hundred miles or more fertilize , etc. Its too bad because its a major issue but these guys are farmers , not fisherman and they will not cooperate with anything that will drop the yield from their farms , especially the relatively small farms in PN where a lot of the high nutrient run off comes from.

Anyway , there are many specifics but the surest way to make sure your opinion is not taken seriously is to try to pin the blame and burden of the solution on "the other guys". Unless your idea deals with both Comms and Recs you bring discredit to your side and you are part of the problem when trying to get both sides to use the fishery responsibly.

[RIJIMMY]

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

Right on... Where's that 'Like' button

But, when you're done looking in the mirror, then help educate others, and stand up for what you believe in.

[JohnR]

Yes, this has been covered once or twice. Short version is we can continue to yell at each other and watch a fishery get mismanaged (and / or sucked up in other battles), or we can all step up to the plate and take a meaningful cut. Otherwise we will be continuing to use the process of urination to determine wind direction and velocity.

We can continue to argue over WHO gets to the keep the fish OR we can start to plan and discuss HOW to save the fish.

[DZ]

This will be an interesting vote. In New England states "Overwhelming" public comment was against a commercial increase. Will they listen? If not I anticipate more support to "legislate" changes to striped bass management. Especially now that recs will be licensed. Just my opinion.

DZ

[Frankiesurf]

One thing about charters is that they can offer a C&R trip as opposed to everyone limiting out. All they have to do is mention it and maybe a quick explanation of why C&R is a good idea. They wouldn't have to force it down the fares throats or anything. I would bet there would be a decent response. Even one fare a year taking that option is a plus.

I have spoken to a few captains about this and the majority make no mention. Some do occasionally. The problem is that if they don't then they are pretty much looking short term. If the health of the fishery dictates the health of the business you would think a future outlook should have been in the business plan to begin with.


The problem with educating other fishermen about this is that the ones that are all over the boards are not the ones to preach to. It is the guys on the beach that don't bother with the internet or those new to the sport. The guys on here and every other site out there has seen and heard these stories already.

The fishermen you see on the beach that have short bass or two or more bass most likely know the rules and they don't care. You can tell by the way they run back to the truck each time they catch a bass or scurry away when the DEC officer comes by. Educating these people is important but they probably don't really care.

The newcomers to the sport should learn all of this from the get go. Give them the whole story and let them make up their mind. I am pretty sure that most rec guys here and all comm guys agree the recs should be taking less fish. There is a level ground starting point. After that is done we will fight over the newbies about gamefish status.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

...and don't each large scale commercially raised chicken. It isn't just runoff from dairies in PA and NY, it is the disaster of a waste problem from the chicken houses in the bay states.

as far as the bait goes... I saw more herring this spring than in 10 years in my local river. There has been tons of adult bunker in W. LI sound over the last few years. Last night I caught schoolie after schoolie in spot loaded with bait. Not that I think the bait isn't a problem.



What if the striper stocks need to be carefully culled to allow for fewer fish that are bigger and healthier? take some pressure off the herring and other bait. Or reduce competition amongst stripers.

The problem is too complicated for us mere mortals.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by zimmy

What if the striper stocks need to be carefully culled to allow for fewer fish that are bigger and healthier? take some pressure off the herring and other bait. Or reduce competition amongst stripers.

The problem is too complicated for us mere mortals.

Man, how did the striper stocks ever manage to exist before man came around to "carefully cull" them out?

I hear people mention nonsense like this a lot. "We need to kill more stripers so the bait can rebound." Nature was fine for millions of years before we came around and effed with it and it'll be fine again in another million years when we're extinct.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Man, how did the striper stocks ever manage to exist before man came around to "carefully cull" them out?

I hear people mention nonsense like this a lot. "We need to kill more stripers so the bait can rebound." Nature was fine for millions of years before we came around and effed with it and it'll be fine again in another million years when we're extinct.

I am not saying this is what needs to happen, just asking the question. As far as nonsense, I am not sure about that.

You ask how striper stocks managed to survive before humans... Stripers increase , bait decreases; stripers decrease, bait increases. Fewer stripers= more bait.More stripers less bait.

Nature was fine before we effed it up is true. I am not sure how that is related to the current state of fisheries, as we aren't absent from nature in the present. We (humans) harvest eels, crabs, herring, bunker, macks, lobsters, flounder etc. Our activities also make the ecosystem less habitable. Striper numbers increased to record numbers. ALL of the factors have to be considered.

People say fix the bait, which I agree with. It isn't simple. The intent of the points I made was to show there are many possible aspects to management.

JD- when you say "nonsense" do you mean you completely dismiss the idea that a reduced striper population would increase the amount of organisms preyed on by stripers? That seems hard to substantiate.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by zimmy

JD- when you say "nonsense" do you mean you completely dismiss the idea that a reduced striper population would increase the amount of organisms preyed on by stripers? That seems hard to substantiate.

When I say "nonsense", it's with regards to the whole concept of "kill more bass so the bait fish can come back" being beneficial to any fishery. Like I said before, nature did a pretty good job finding an equilibrium in the millions of years before man. I don't agree with your idea that "stripers increase, bait decreases; stripers decrease, bait increases". There are far too many factors.

Maybe instead of culling out bass to help increase the bait population we get rid of indiscriminate fishing methods like the trawlers and get stop companies like Omega Protein form decimating full populations of the bait.

[maddmatt]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

If you feel that the striped bass population is in trouble - Conservation is in YOUR hands. Release the fish that you are not taking to eat and dont participate in kill tournaments.
Look in the mirror before looking elsewhere

oooooohhhhh, good one!!

[fatcow]

I say RAISE it. CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIng

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by fatcow

I say RAISE it. CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIng

Until the stock crashes again, and no cha-ching for years or ever.
that's the mentality that drove it into the ground the last time.

fail.

[clambelly]

who here would be in support of an outright ban on all fishing for stripers for 5 years? no one targets them.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by clambelly

who here would be in support of an outright ban on all fishing for stripers for 5 years? no one targets them.

I'd be in favor of a strict catch and release fishery. No take at all.

The things are so packed with PCBs and mercury that we shouldn't be eating them anyway.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by clambelly

who here would be in support of an outright ban on all fishing for stripers for 5 years? no one targets them.

That's a completely unrealistic notion.

[fatcow]

Don't blame the new school blame the old school
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[zimmy]

JD- I think we are probably exactly on the same page. I don't think we should kill more bass either. I would like to see a 1 fish limit and reduced commercial harvest. As far as what the rec. size limit should be... I do think there is something to a slot limit which will target the take to certain ages of the population and increased male mortality, decreased female mortality, and decreased competition within certain age classes. What we know about populations is that more prey and less competition leads to healthier individuals and populations as a whole. The population in the Chesapeake is certainly exposed to terrible conditions. A smaller, but stronger and healthier population may be better able to thrive and prevent the collapse that seems imminent. It could lead to more big fish in the end. The scrawny, weak, diseased population at present seems just ripe for collapse. These aren't my personal ideas, but I have heard the arguments and I can't dismiss them.

The best evidence for 1 @36" is that it worked last time. I just wonder if it worked because the population dynamics were so different. There were hardly any fish around and few people fishing. Is it the best way with the current state of the striper population? I don't know.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by zimmy

The population in the Chesapeake is certainly exposed to terrible conditions. A smaller, but stronger and healthier population may be better able to thrive and prevent the collapse that seems imminent. It could lead to more big fish in the end. The scrawny, weak, diseased population at present seems just ripe for collapse. These aren't my personal ideas, but I have heard the arguments and I can't dismiss them.

Did you attend the ASMFC hearings? YOY numbers have been terrible relative to the number of spawning females. Up to 70% of the bass in the Chesapeake could potentially be infected with myco with an estimated lifespan of 5 years after infection.

The nice thing about nature is that only the strong survive. Without humans messing around, an equilibrium is always found. The weak die out and the strong get stronger.

[goosefish]

I feel like a child now.

[JakeF]

I have word from an inside source that the ASMFC Management Board has voted in today's meeting AGAINST increasing the coastal Commercial Striped Bass Quota. Just FYI....

[afterhours]

.....it's a start.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by JakeF

I have word from an inside source that the ASMFC Management Board has voted in today's meeting AGAINST increasing the coastal Commercial Striped Bass Quota. Just FYI....

It is a fact. The increase in the commercial quota was voted down.

[stcroixman]

good news (for once)

[BigFish]

Except in Rhode Island and New York!