PTSD

[Sea Dangles]

The name of the killer is Robert Bales. He had seen his buddies leg blown off the previous day and decided to jump into a bottle for solace. Family guy with two kids on his third tour in the Mideast.Sad for everyone and an embarrassment for the country. There must be a very fine line in being a soldier where you have to be cold enough to kill yet disciplined enough to show restraint.

[spence]

I believe this was this fourth deployment, three in Iraq and then Afghanistan. The report was he thought he was done and really didn't want to go...at 38 years old and with two young kids I don't blame him.

It's a sad situation and just sucks all around, but for years many have been saying we're pushing our troops too far.

I hope they don't go after the death penalty, it just doesn't seem right even considering how brutal his crime appears to have been. My guess is his leadership will be scrutinized significantly.

-spence

[likwid]

The base has a history of dismissing PTSD cases based on keeping expenses down. (resulting in suicides and shootings)
2 headshrinkers were canned for (basically) ignoring PTSD
He had a history of (minor in this case) incidents in the past
He was stop lossed

Recipe for disaster.

[nightfighter]

When the combatants cannot be distiguished from the non-combatants, you are going to have this reaction manifest itself. Going to put this back on the enemy who continues to hide among the civilan population, using women, children and animals to wage war against our uniformed troops.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

When the combatants cannot be distiguished from the non-combatants, you are going to have this reaction manifest itself. Going to put this back on the enemy who continues to hide among the civilan population, using women, children and animals to wage war against our uniformed troops.

If this had happened at 1pm in a skirmish, absolutely. When you walk a mile at night solo and open fire (and then burn the bodies of some of the kids) it is not on the enemy.

I heard an interview with the IAVA head who was very cautious to put this on PTSD as he said there are lots of folks suffering from it w/o going on a rampage...

regardless it is a tragedy for the victims and the family of the perpetrator...

[likwid]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

When the combatants cannot be distiguished from the non-combatants, you are going to have this reaction manifest itself. Going to put this back on the enemy who continues to hide among the civilan population, using women, children and animals to wage war against our uniformed troops.

This has nothing to do with what the combatants look like. Its the stress every/any soldier goes through and how its handled/dealt with.

Friend of mine came back from Sadir City, Iraq after the height of it being a complete hell hole of bombings/attacks. They were shelled multiple times a day, shot at on patrol constantly. Saw kids playing in the streets in the middle of fire fights completely oblivious.

He called saying he wasn't sure if he was going to shoot himself or shoot other people and needed help. The base pretty much told him he was "eligible for 4 meetings with the shrink but thats it".

Very thankful that Wounded Warrior (and Nick of Soldier Ride, a friend) is picking up where the military/VA is completely failing.

You should watch this some time. HBO: Wartorn 1861-2010: Home

You'll realize what the enemy looks like has nothing to do with how people handle war.

[nightfighter]

My point is that the entire deployment becomes a "skirmish", 24/7. This is not like the Civil War when both sides retired for the night. The fact that the enemy lives among the population and kills from the safety of hiding in plain view is what manifests this reaction. The kids might be oblivious to the threat, but our troops are not. I would liken it to spending an entire tour in a sniper's scope. Takes a toll....

[spence]

Just the other day you were attacking Obama for his apology...why the change in heart?

More importantly, it's a serious thread. I think your experiences in Iraq and with military leadership could be interesting and insightful. Curious what you've experienced in this context.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Just the other day you were attacking Obama for his apology...why the change in heart?

More importantly, it's a serious thread. I think your experiences in Iraq and with military leadership could be interesting and insightful. Curious what you've experienced in this context.

-spence

I attacked Obama because hespent more energy apologizing for burning a Koran than he expended condemning the subsequent slaughter of innocent Americans.

In this case, an apology is clearly warranted. That would have been the perfect time to remind the Muslim world that that millions of Muslims have been liberated from other, monstrous Muslims, thanks to the US military.

That's all I said, and there's nothing illogical about it.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I attacked Obama because hespent more energy apologizing for burning a Koran than he expended condemning the subsequent slaughter of innocent Americans.

The interesting thing though is that from your perspective the murders were deserving of the apology, yet to many people of Afghanistan the burnings was a worse offense.

Where do you draw the line?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

The interesting thing though is that from your perspective the murders were deserving of the apology, yet to many people of Afghanistan the burnings was a worse offense.

Where do you draw the line?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Are you saying murder is no big deal to many people in Afghanistan?

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Are you saying murder is no big deal to many people in Afghanistan?

I don't believe I said anything like that.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

Are you saying murder is no big deal to many people in Afghanistan?

I'll say it. Let me re-phrase, to many people there, murder is a big deal, it's a cause for celebration.

PaulS, I didn't blame all liberals for what happened at Wesleyan...please stop putting radical jibberish in my mouth. What I say is fair game, don't make stuff up please. I do blame any liberals who won't condemn as hateful intolerance the act of throwing condoms at a sitting justice of the supreme Court.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

The interesting thing though is that from your perspective the murders were deserving of the apology, yet to many people of Afghanistan the burnings was a worse offense.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Which shows you how insane those people are you're referring to. If a large group of people really believe that a piece of paper is worth more than a human life (any human life), then the president (especially one who has the Nobel Peace Prize under his belt) should recognize his obligation to set these people straight about their priorities, and to warn them what will happen if they target innocent westerners.

I'd also like him to tell the Muslim that they should be getting on their knees and thanking the US military for trying to free them from enslavement at the hands of other, monstrous Muslims. No greater love hath man than he who lays down his life for another, and many Americans have risjked precisely that in trying to bring freedom to these people. As one of those who has bled over there, it would sure be nice to hear him articulate it that way, especially to those who need to hear it.

[TheSpecialist]

I read this on another site, and after thinking about it, it is so true.

After reading the headlines about the US soldier who shot up Afghanistan civilians, I couldn't help noticing an irony. There is all this clamor to try this guy quickly and execute him, never mind his having suffered a traumatic brain injury.

Yet this Major Hasan, who shot up Fort Hood while screaming Allah akbar, still hasn't stood trial, and they are still debating whether he was insane, even with the clear evidence regarding his motive: slay as many infidels as possible.

So we have a guy in a war zone who cracks, and he must be executed immediately.
But this Muslim psychiatrist who was stateside in a nice safe office all day murders 13, wounds 29 of our own guys, and they try to argue the poor lad suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome, from listening to real soldiers who had actual battle experience. Two and a half years later, they still haven't tried the murderous bastard.

[Raven]

there's going to be a heavy price to pay whether or not
this soldier gets the death penalty or Not.

and it will be retaliatory in nature for his senseless act
with the lives of more soldiers and or civilians.

that many deployments would compromise anyone's
brain and he could have been in a support role for his last deployment.

[Raven]

that she'll stoop that low

[PaulS]

I'll give you Jimmy Carter b/c he was Pres. but at this point he ain't very influential. I don't even know who Heather Wilson, Jack Kingston, B. Lee
or Amy Holmes are. Having a sitting Pres. call into the program shows his influence. The Maher list isn't close to the Rush list.

As for Rachel - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I'll give you Jimmy Carter b/c he was Pres. but at this point he ain't very influential. I don't even know who Heather Wilson, Jack Kingston, B. Lee
or Amy Holmes are. Having a sitting Pres. call into the program shows his influence. The Maher list isn't close to the Rush list.

As for Rachel - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Rush apologized for what he said. Maher didn't.

Rush isn't known for R-rated language on the air, Maher is.

"I don't even know who Heather Wilson, Jack Kingston, B. Lee
or Amy Holmes are."

Maybe you should expand your knowledge a bit then. I could have gone on and on and on. Multiple senators, congressmen, heads of the DNC, big names in the media. But if Rush has 1 sitting president call, and Maher doesn't, that all by itself means you're right and I'm wrong?

Whatever...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Maybe you should expand your knowledge a bit then. Thanks, I'll take that under advisement I could have gone on and on and on. Multiple senators, congressmen, heads of the DNC, big names in the media. But if Rush has 1 sitting president call, and Maher doesn't, that all by itself means you're right and I'm wrong?I guess it does from looking at the lists.

Whatever..

Hey, if you don't believe that Rush has more influence than Maher, your not being realistic - Whatever

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Rush isn't known for R-rated language on the air, Maher is.

Bill Maher is on HBO you twit, he's ALLOWED.

And who the #^&#^&#^&#^&ing #^&#^&#^&#^& cares your #^&#^&#^&#^&ing #^&#^&#^&#^&?

[MotoXcowboy]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

The name of the killer is Robert Bales. He had seen his buddies leg blown off the previous day and decided to jump into a bottle for solace.

I think what people are missing is this;
Probably wouldn't have happened if he didn't drink himself into a alcohol induced coma.

Sounds like a textbook blackout.

Firearms & Booze don't mix