Hard Current

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

LOL Now that would be a sight. Maybe I'll get one of those little trailer things for kiddies. Your not that big
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Need that for my dog.
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[MAKAI]

I would suggest 2 sets of the duck fins the float tube guys wear for your amphibious pooch.
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[ProfessorM]

Well in the canal I usually don't crush my barbs just for the fact I want as much holding power as I can get. I usually just hold on and size the fish up and when I get a feeling about the size of the fish I then try and think if I have caught a fish in that area before and how the bottom area, structure is. This will dictate how aggressive I work the fish.
When I fish in the boat, with you, I do crush my barbs because you yell at me to do it and I allows follow my guides advice. I have kind of adopted it when fishing in my boat with plugs.
I have seen up close a few of these areas of current and several of them make the canal look like a duck pond. I think my response to fishing these areas usually goes something like I wouldn't want to catch a fish in that area or I can't imagine trying to reel a fish out of there.
Basically I got nutin for you. Fishing those areas is a crap shoot with the fish having the upper hand, but man it is super fun trying it though and when it does work you will remember it.
Heck I am still smiling about the one I did get from that area you told me to cast to and then told me I would never get it out of there and after a few laps around the boat and you pointing out all the lovely structure under us I got my hands on it, crushed barbs and all. I told you it was my best fight of the year and I had quite a few this year.

[Liv2Fish]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

LOL Now that would be a sight. Maybe I'll get one of those little trailer things for kiddies. Your not that big
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I have on you can have if you post pictures....

[OLD GOAT]

I Love fast water but not many rocks around here.
I love a dark green needle[floater] on a night outgoing tide and when it's time to retrieve I do a twenty four count for every revolution of the handle. I think a -Norris-would do the trick.
If I have a fish on heading down current I Try to wear him out as he pulls away. If the fish turns to make it's getaway easier, then I slack off on the pressure so that I can regain some line.
Someday I'll try this with rocks.
P S If Numby needs a canal special I have a walker with red tassels on the handles he can borrow .My redheaded nurse said no dice so you're on your own.


l

[stripermaineiac]

Fly fishing teaches you a lot about fishing. You have to use what you don't have.Can't horse a fish and your chasing fish that like hard current with loads of structure working agains you.The fish dictates what you can and can't do. Hard part is figuring out which is which. When they nose up against something I give them slack and pray they swim away from the structure.Slack also works when mending a fly line or dead drifting a plug or a bait.Control is what you don't have and sometimes understanding that while fighting a fish gives you a chance.

[Zeal]

This is something I had a major issue with when I trout fish (the concept is very much the same, only it's big fish on small gear). The area I go to has similar structure, except the area is where a major river dumps into a smaller one. This spot, the current is tough but I have the ultimate control for attack (I can have the current flow away from me, parallel, or towards me). I lost probably the biggest trout I ever had on the line because as soon as it ate my plug, it went right for the structure and hung my line up. I learned my lesson and caught it's big brother the year after.

I use mainly Rapala Baby Brown trout or a similar Yo Zuri plug (lipped)

http://www.amazon.com/Rapala-Flat-Fi.../dp/B005EIFICS

Just note that I use the plastic version, not this wooden version. Just to give you the idea of the plug shape and type I favor.

I actually have a single belly hook and a single tail hook on the lures I use for this hard current. You will get misses, but usually the ones that miss are the smaller fish.


The best angle of attack I found was actually standing where the current is moving away from me and also to the side where you have the border of the calm water meeting the ripping current. From there, I would cast straight ahead on the border then fan out. So standing at that area I would cast at 12 oclock through 3 o'clock (or into the calm water about 45 degrees from where my stance is). I used lures that were meant for subsurface such as what I linked above: whichever was light enough to look like it was getting batted around in the cross current and still able to dig in the water when retrieved slowly but also not so heavy that it would give off the submarine effect.

When they are hooked and start heading for their lair, I don't mess with the drag (I have my drag set to where it just passes the mark of not giving out line if I set the hook on a fish but I can still pull the line from the reel if needed), instead I give it some fast cranks and pull the rod past me to horse them away as if it were a tog and use the current against them by keeping them in the middle of the water column where the water forces them up and now they have to fight you and the current which makes them tire faster.

More often than not, if you keep them from running to their lair on their first few attempts they get discouraged and fight you more. If they manage to get to where they want, I actually move (if able) to the opposite direction. If they went to the left, I move right, etc. While moving, I keep the tension and reel the line to gain that ground back (same concept as backing down on a fish). If you can't move, its a real crapshoot. That's where a thick leader comes in, a long standing line if you can do that (a la Alberto Knie's Alberto Knot).

I do also cast down the middle of the water and retrieve back to me as well but I find that angle gives it more action.

99% of the time, the fish crush the lure in very close proximity. Namely, at the feet. I've never had much luck in drifting a plug.

Hope this helps and makes sense

[numbskull]

Good post.

When you say single hooks on the belly, do you mean a single treble or a single single? I've not experimented much with singles as belly hooks, but have a feeling I should. Have others? How's it work?

The other thing that intrigues me is the idea of fishing down current, i.e. retrieving with the current. There is a spot I fish where there is a sentinel rock (the first rock the current hits as it approaches a point......and usually the best rock to target) uptide of my only access. Sometimes I can get hits swimming a darter fast by this, and sometimes I think they follow the plug and hit it as it turns near my feet, but my sense is I'm not fishing very effectively.

Does anyone have experience bridge fishing? From reading the book about Billy the Greek (an interesting but poorly written one) I get the sense he swims bucktails back downtide straight at the fish and they will hit it if it is close enough. Pichney also made plugs to do this, but how he used them I've no idea.

How about you canal guys? You ever cast straight uptide and fish back towards you? With a jig or plug?

[ProfessorM]

Most of those large Sebile canal fish I caught, and the ones I lost this year, were caught reeling with the current if that helps. I fan cast the whole area and that direction was the best.
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[piemma]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

Most of those large Sebile canal fish I caught, and the ones I lost this year, were caught reeling with the current if that helps. I fan cast the whole area and that direction was the best.
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Makes sense Paul. I think the fish in the canal swim WITH the current most of the time so the bait does the same I would imagine

[piemma]

I have a place in Narr Bay when I only get fish if I drift with the current and correspondingly, my bait/plug does the same.

[Nebe]

I like to fish a couple of my spots by casting uptide and retrieving with the current. My go-to setup is a wood egg with a 3" pearl shad under it and I pop the egg. Works like a charm. Without the egg, the shad will always hang up on the bottom
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[stripermaineiac]

I've found that casting jigs upcurrent works best for me as they come at the fish tail ist due the the current pushing the lighter feathery end down current. especially with some pork rind on them. I think the fish feel tey're ambushing the lure.a freind of mine often outfishes me with his cocaho's doing this.
As far as metal lips go I try upstream a few times then switch to cross current. not sure which works best as I use darters across an against the current most.

[iamskippy]

Originally Posted by Zeal

This is something I had a major issue with when I trout fish (the concept is very much the same, only it's big fish on small gear). The area I go to has similar structure, except the area is where a major river dumps into a smaller one. This spot, the current is tough but I have the ultimate control for attack (I can have the current flow away from me, parallel, or towards me). I lost probably the biggest trout I ever had on the line because as soon as it ate my plug, it went right for the structure and hung my line up. I learned my lesson and caught it's big brother the year after.

I use mainly Rapala Baby Brown trout or a similar Yo Zuri plug (lipped)

http://www.amazon.com/Rapala-Flat-Fi.../dp/B005EIFICS

Just note that I use the plastic version, not this wooden version. Just to give you the idea of the plug shape and type I favor.

I actually have a single belly hook and a single tail hook on the lures I use for this hard current. You will get misses, but usually the ones that miss are the smaller fish.


The best angle of attack I found was actually standing where the current is moving away from me and also to the side where you have the border of the calm water meeting the ripping current. From there, I would cast straight ahead on the border then fan out. So standing at that area I would cast at 12 oclock through 3 o'clock (or into the calm water about 45 degrees from where my stance is). I used lures that were meant for subsurface such as what I linked above: whichever was light enough to look like it was getting batted around in the cross current and still able to dig in the water when retrieved slowly but also not so heavy that it would give off the submarine effect.

When they are hooked and start heading for their lair, I don't mess with the drag (I have my drag set to where it just passes the mark of not giving out line if I set the hook on a fish but I can still pull the line from the reel if needed), instead I give it some fast cranks and pull the rod past me to horse them away as if it were a tog and use the current against them by keeping them in the middle of the water column where the water forces them up and now they have to fight you and the current which makes them tire faster.

More often than not, if you keep them from running to their lair on their first few attempts they get discouraged and fight you more. If they manage to get to where they want, I actually move (if able) to the opposite direction. If they went to the left, I move right, etc. While moving, I keep the tension and reel the line to gain that ground back (same concept as backing down on a fish). If you can't move, its a real crapshoot. That's where a thick leader comes in, a long standing line if you can do that (a la Alberto Knie's Alberto Knot).

I do also cast down the middle of the water and retrieve back to me as well but I find that angle gives it more action.

99% of the time, the fish crush the lure in very close proximity. Namely, at the feet. I've never had much luck in drifting a plug.

Hope this helps and makes sense

Well writen Zeal thanks... One thing i stumpled upon this year with a current in my face and a rocky bottom (trout fishing) was to jig / flutter a spoon. Reeling it in strigjt or cross current was ok, but as soon as i dropped the spoon in between the rocks its was on and these brookies were agressive, some time crushing the spoon and jumping way out of the water.

This same place also had some nice bass mixed in as well, if they didnt pick up the spoon i used very small swim shads and both the trout and bass crushed them as well. I was excited to figure this out (happy accident) and i applied this in a few other spots and did very well as well for multiple species including my.PB pickeral which owned my 6#test right at the boat we were in a 10'car topper amd the fish was close to if not over 3'.

The spoon i fell im love with was the achme thunderbolt gold, they are hard to come bye.
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[MAKAI]

I would imagine fish will swim with the current or find a way to minimize it's effect when looking for food. Why waste the calories.
Analogous, I suppose to bike riding into or with the wind.
Exceptions abound , but when I fish heavy current like the canal I first try fishing the plug swimming along the edge with the current.
Takes some work to give it the appearance of life, but it has paid off.

Sight casting to breaking fish is different. The fish are active on bait and just chase it around wherever it tries to go.
Just my two depreciated cents.
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[stripermaineiac]

Like walking the surf and casting all around the arc so to speak.Something I forget to do while fishing openings an breachways.

[Zeal]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Good post.

When you say single hooks on the belly, do you mean a single treble or a single single? I've not experimented much with singles as belly hooks, but have a feeling I should. Have others? How's it work?

The Yo Zuri is treble in the belly and single hook for the tail

The Rapala I made it so it was single hook for the belly (no treble), and single hook in the tail.

Honestly, the Rapala caught just as much or more than the Yo Zuri given their hook setups.

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by piemma

Makes sense Paul. I think the fish in the canal swim WITH the current most of the time so the bait does the same I would imagine

You would think the bait would do so but many, many, times I find the bait is working against the current and moving in that direction. Back in the herring fishing days we always would want to be on the downside of the herring run. The side where the herring would have to work against the tide to get into the run. It was always way more productive and when the tide switched we would move to the other side.
I have other situations where I prefer to work against the current. I luv to work spooks and pencils when I am in the boat drifting or especially when anchored up against the current. When fishing top water in the canal you are quite often fishing them against the current unless something hits it quick out in the middle.

[MAKAI]

See that quite a bit also. Especially in real tight, assume the current isn't as strong. Get a kick out of when the bait sees me, scoots out a few yards and gets whacked. Lots of back eddies to find plugs swirling around in too.
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[Zeal]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

I would imagine fish will swim with the current or find a way to minimize it's effect when looking for food. Why waste the calories.
Analogous, I suppose to bike riding into or with the wind.
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From my experience, the fish hang under the current where they don't get swept up. When they actually attack, they go with the current and go right back down below it.

If they miss, I have seen the fish miss, stop swimming and just ride the current out until it is weak, then go under to their original place.

Spot on for you in my book!

[N.ShoreFisher]

bucktail jigs and tighten down the drag....I fish heavy current a lot. Water balsts the river mouth I fish. Sometimes need a 3 or 4 oz to keep on bottom, and when they hit, have that drag just below closed. Let the reel and rod do most of the work but def keep them up top. when they turn back into that current and start to dive, things can get pretty funky. I like to lead them right to my waiting bridge net that I have tied down and can kick in while fighting, so it's already in the water ready to go.

[rphud]

My 2 cents would be that the fly books talk in much more detail about presentation in current. Kenny Abrames foremost, Tabory and Mitchell and others as well. Check out some steelhead and other trout books too! Generally the fish are staged behind something that brakes the current for them and facing/looking upstream for something being washed their way within easy reach. That would be something cast directly upstream or being swung just in front of them across the current from a cast quartering upstream or there abouts. Want to start a real argument, debate which is more important with these guys: presentation or profile (don't even mention color if you know what is good for you). Fly fishing has made me a much better conventional fisherman! (not that is saying much, still much to learn and practice)