Manufactured Crisis

[wdmso]

I get it Trump is worried about mass rapes so his solution is build a wall so they can’t get to the United States and that will prevent the rapes ... because they will stop trying to get here to be raped along the way ... brilliant
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I get it Trump is worried about mass rapes so his solution is build a wall so they can’t get to the United States and that will prevent the rapes ... because they will stop trying to get here to be raped along the way ... brilliant
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Try to follow me here...

If our border is actually secure, they will know they can't get in, so less of them will try to make the trip, so less will get raped.

I agree with you, it's not brilliant, it's too simple to be brilliant.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Try to follow me here...

If our border is actually secure, they will know they can't get in, so less of them will try to make the trip, so less will get raped.

I agree with you, it's not brilliant, it's too simple to be brilliant.

The wall the fence the minefield none of it’s going to matter people who live in desperate situations are going to continually come to America no matter how hard it is and till the situations in their home countries are stable and can put food on the table and they don’t live in fear And until any of that happens they are still going to be coming to try to better themselves in United States ..

You got a love Trump there is no global warming humans didn’t cause it ... but a wall Is going to fix all of Americas immigration problems simple solutions for simple minds
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Try to follow me here...

If our border is actually secure, they will know they can't get in, so less of them will try to make the trip, so less will get raped.

I agree with you, it's not brilliant, it's too simple to be brilliant.

You do realize they’re fleeing murder and rape in their home countries right? You do realize most want to seek asylum at legal entry points rights.

Hope that wasn’t too simple to be brilliant.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

You do realize they’re fleeing murder and rape in their home countries right? You do realize most want to seek asylum at legal entry points rights.

Hope that wasn’t too simple to be brilliant.
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You do know that if they come through legal entry points legally there is no problem, right?

Hope that wasn't to brilliantly simple for you

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You do know that if they come through legal entry points legally there is no problem, right?

Hope that wasn't to brilliantly simple for you

this is correct...it is the ILLEGAL entries that are the problem...why is this so hard for stupid liberals to understand?

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You do know that if they come through legal entry points legally there is no problem, right?

Hope that wasn't to brilliantly simple for you

Read the post I was responding to.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You do know that if they come through legal entry points legally there is no problem, right?

Hope that wasn't to brilliantly simple for you

Face: meet egg
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You do know that if they come through legal entry points legally there is no problem, right?

Hope that wasn't to brilliantly simple for you

The federal asylum statute specifically says that anyone who arrives in the United States “whether or not at a designated port of arrival…may apply for asylum.”

Why they bypass the POE from DHS
Office of Inspector General's report dated 9/27/18

DHS was not fully prepared to implement
the Administration’s Zero Tolerance Policy
or to deal with some of its after-effects.
Faced with resource limitations and other
challenges, DHS regulated the number of
asylum-seekers entering the country
through ports of entry at the same time that
it encouraged asylum-seekers to come to
the ports. During Zero Tolerance, CBP also
held alien children separated from their
parents for extended periods in facilities
intended solely for short-term detention.
DHS also struggled to identify, track, and
reunify families separated under Zero
Tolerance due to limitations with its
information technology systems, including
a lack of integration between systems.
Finally, DHS provided inconsistent
information to aliens who arrived with
children during Zero Tolerance, which
resulted in some parents not
understanding that they would be
separated from their children, and being
unable to communicate with their children
after separation.

Feel free to read the whole report
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/defaul...8-84-Sep18.pdf

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

You do realize they’re fleeing murder and rape in their home countries right? You do realize most want to seek asylum at legal entry points rights.

Hope that wasn’t too simple to be brilliant.
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Fear of being raped is not a valid reason for seeking asylum under the accords that the US signed. Neither is fear of being murdered, unless their government is mass murdering its citizens or is illegitimately trying to execute the asylum seeker.

The vast majority of illegal migrants are coming here for economic reasons, also which are not legitimate reasons for seeking asylum.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Fear of being raped is not a valid reason for seeking asylum under the accords that the US signed. Neither is fear of being murdered, unless their government is mass murdering its citizens or is illegitimately trying to execute the asylum seeker.

The vast majority of illegal migrants are coming here for economic reasons, also which are not legitimate reasons for seeking asylum.

This isn’t really true. Fear of being killed or raped by a gang because of your social group certainly could qualify.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You do realize they’re fleeing murder and rape in their home countries right? You do realize most want to seek asylum at legal entry points rights.

Hope that wasn’t too simple to be brilliant.
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and if i ever claimed that mexico had eliminated crime, you would have a point!! but i didn’t, so you don’t.

where was your criticism, when the democrats voted to fund a wall in the last, we all wonder?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and if i ever claimed that mexico had eliminated crime, you would have a point!! but i didn’t, so you don’t.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

where was your criticism, when the democrats voted to fund a wall in the last, we all wonder?
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I don't recall democrats ever voting for Trump's wall. They've voted for various border security bills some of which have contained bits of wall or fence or barricade. Not everything is so black and white like you make it out to be.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

This isn’t really true. Fear of being killed or raped by a gang because of your social group certainly could qualify.
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Certainly could? No, it is the responsibility of the government in the country where gang rapes and murders occur to solve the problem. National sovereignty requires national responsibility. It is not the responsibility of the US to solve the gang, or rape, or murder problems of Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, or any country other than the US. Sovereignty issues is one of the reasons that the UN pact avoided diminishing the normal responsibility of nations to secure the rights of their own people. Not only would it ease a nation's responsibility to protect its people if the alien citizens had to be accepted by another nation because their government didn't do its job, it would force the burden, wanted or not, on other nations to accept the transfer of the economic and social costs of whole populations into their territory

Social group? Are the gangs comprised of a different "social group" than those they prey upon? Even if they were, it would still be the problem of their government to solve. It is the responsibility of a sovereign nation to secure the safety of its citizens. When sovereign nations fail, if they are UN members, the UN assembly can order some method to set them right. In cases of uncontrollable mass genocides, as have occurred in Africa, UN troops can be sent to stop the killing.

The latest UN migration pact, which the US, thankfully, did not sign, would have made it far easier for migrants to cross borders without having to ask for asylum to do so.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Certainly could? No, it is the responsibility of the government in the country where gang rapes and murders occur to solve the problem.

If the government in question is unwilling or unable to provide protection there historically has been the provision for asylum assuming the standards can be met. Trump has changed some of this to make it much more restrictive but I believe challenges to this are still working through the courts. That being said it doesn't look great for the Admin ... "the new credible fear policies are arbitrary, capricious, and in violation of the immigration laws."

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

If the government in question is unwilling or unable to provide protection there historically has been the provision for asylum assuming the standards can be met.

This sounds like your slick con artistry at work. What do you mean by "can be met"? Are you referring to some verbal manipulation to circumvent protocol text? Either the standards are met by the asylum claimant or they are not. Why would any provisions be necessary if the asylum standards are already met?

If a government is "unwilling" to provide protection from gangs and rapes, then the government is complicit and responsible for the persecution. In that case, asylum is met under the rubric of political persecution. It has to be proven that the government is deliberately not protecting the claimant.

Should the citizens of the South side of Chicago, under UN protocols, be granted asylum into Switzerland because of the persistent threat of gang violence?

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

This sounds like your slick con artistry at work. What do you mean by "can be met"? Are you referring to some verbal manipulation to circumvent protocol text? Either the standards are met by the asylum claimant or they are not. Why would any provisions be necessary if the asylum standards are already met?

They still have to meet the individual evidenced requirements obviously.

If a government is "unwilling" to provide protection from gangs and rapes, then the government is complicit and responsible for the persecution. In that case, asylum is met under the rubric of political persecution. It has to be proven that the government is deliberately not protecting the claimant.

Should the citizens of the South side of Chicago, under UN protocols, be granted asylum into Switzerland because of the persistent threat of gang violence?

The citizens of Chicago are under the protection of the Chicago police and the FBI. Most all the gang violence is gang on gang. If the gangs are prosecuting non-gang members or threatening prosecution of non-gang members the police will intervene.

It's an absurd comparison.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

They still have to meet the individual evidenced requirements obviously.

Then no special "provisions" as you stated are necessary.

The citizens of Chicago are under the protection of the Chicago police and the FBI. Most all the gang violence is gang on gang. If the gangs are prosecuting non-gang members or threatening prosecution of non-gang members the police will intervene.

It's an absurd comparison.

The citizens of the countries south of our border are under the protections of their police and military forces. Neither Chicago's police nor those country's police can stop gang violence, rapes and murders. The solution to local crimes is not amnesty into another country. Nor does the Un protocol say it can be.

[wdmso]

Not to worry!!!! Pompeo Says Era Of 'American Shame Is Over'

What American did he live in where he felt shameful? Or how about another Trump showing how he thinks presidents should act

Trump says China’s leaders are “more honorable” than the Democratic leaders of Congress.

MAGA
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Not to worry!!!! Pompeo Says Era Of 'American Shame Is Over'

What American did he live in where he felt shameful? Or how about another Trump showing how he thinks presidents should act

Trump says China’s leaders are “more honorable” than the Democratic leaders of Congress.

MAGA
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Don’t you remember the former First Lady who was ashamed of our country? Parallel universe.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Don’t you remember the former First Lady who was ashamed of our country? Parallel universe.
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Are you speaking of this statement? That some claim means ashamed?
As true as Trump saying MAGA means he thinks America sucks

"For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country, because it feels like hope is making a comeback … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change."
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Are you speaking of this statement? That some claim means ashamed?
As true as Trump saying MAGA means he thinks America sucks

"For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country, because it feels like hope is making a comeback … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change."
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I guess that is what happens when the country is hungry for change...
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Don’t you remember the former First Lady who was ashamed of our country? Parallel universe.
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is she an a member of The administration?





"For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country, because it feels like hope is making a comeback … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change."

when did she say she was ashamed


sounds nothing like what you said she said ... not sure why I am not surprised ... it happens a lot around here... they hear one thing from one party and something else from the other .... even when they are spelled out in words .... they we tell us what they meant to say...
fake words are trending in GOP circles

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

is she an a member of The administration?





.. even when they are spelled out in words .... they we tell us what they meant to say fake words are trending

Please explain
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Are you speaking of this statement? That some claim means ashamed?
As true as Trump saying MAGA means he thinks America sucks

"For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country, because it feels like hope is making a comeback … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change."
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Quite frankly, I honestly don't know what she is trying to say in that sentence. Maybe other sentences in her statement clarifies it. Is she saying that for the first time as an adult she is truthfully proud of her country, not just the perfunctory, obligatory, but insincere show of pride she may have displayed in her adult past? And is so because her country had no hope during her adult past but now has? And that people were not hungry for change in her adult life until Barack was elected? Does she mean by "my country" that place where the special personal concerns of her adult life were for the first time being met? Because, surely there were millions who had already, before her coming of age and all along believed that "my country" gave them hope, and who, before she became an adult, either were hungry for change or didn't want any. Was she trying to tell us that her personal, particular "hope and change" materialized with the election of her husband, but before that the country was hopeless? Is that something the rest of us should applaud her for.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Quite frankly, I honestly don't know what she is trying to say in that sentence. Maybe other sentences in her statement clarifies it. Is she saying that for the first time as an adult she is truthfully proud of her country, not just the perfunctory, obligatory, but insincere show of pride she may have displayed in her adult past? And is so because her country had no hope during her adult past but now has? And that people were not hungry for change in her adult life until Barack was elected? Does she mean by "my country" that place where the special personal concerns of her adult life were for the first time being met? Because, surely there were millions who had already, before her coming of age and all along that "my country" gave them hope, and who, before she became an adult, either were hungry for change or didn't want any. Was she trying to tell us that her personal, particular "hope and change" materialized with the election of her husband? Is that something the rest of us should applaud her for.

Perhaps you try too hard.
I am typically proud of my children, sometimes they disappoint me or themselves and sometimes I am really proud of them. Does that make me ashamed of them?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Perhaps you try too hard.
I am typically proud of my children, sometimes they disappoint me or themselves and sometimes I am really proud of them. Does that make me ashamed of them?
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I wasn't talking about being ashamed, nor about you and your children. I was talking about the sentence spoken by Michelle Obama which you cited. Are you trying too hard to claim that Ms. Obama was typically proud of her country, even though it held no hope nor desire for change until, for the first time, after Barack was elected, it finally did?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I wasn't talking about being ashamed, nor about you and your children. I was talking about the sentence spoken by Michelle Obama which you cited. Are you trying too hard to claim that Ms. Obama was typically proud of her country, even though it held no hope nor desire for change until, for the first time, after Barack was elected, it finally did?

I just can't turn her statement into ashamed, sounds like you can.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I just can't turn her statement into ashamed, sounds like you can.

Why ask me? I didn't try to do that. But I can see how it could be done. Even by you if you saw it that way. Being proud of a country for finally having hope could imply being ashamed of it during the time when it had none. Are you ashamed of your children when they act despicably?

[Sea Dangles]

I am sure the cupboard is full of participation trophy’s.
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