charges dropped against Flynn

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If Flynn committed a crime, he should be punished. But law enforcement has to go about it the right way, they can't be motivated by politics, and they can't entrap him. DO you agree with that?

The FBI knew Flynn had lied before the interview. Getting him to continue his dishonesty on the record isn't entrapment, it's good police work. Think about it, Obama slaps sanctions on Russia for election interference, Flynn talks to Russia about it, then lies to cover it up. The FBI didn't engineer this...it is the facts from the case.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Then flynn some how Obama's hold overs going after poor old flynn
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Did you read what the assistant director of the FBI wrote, before the first conversation with Flynn? Yes or no?

[Pete F.]

An important point to remember in why Flynn is being rewarded: He never gave up the missing piece of the puzzle which is whether Trump knew about or directed the call to Kislyak. Mueller said he couldn't get to bottom of it, because Flynn and McFarland claimed to not remember.

[Pete F.]

Glad to hear you hold Alan Underpants in such high regard. I suppose you also agree with his position on statutory rape.

Now Barr is saying Sullivan’s orders and the whole process leading up to Flynn’s conviction and sentencing was illegitimate. At least if Trump were to pardon Flynn, the basic premise that he had, in fact, lied to the FBI and pleaded guilty to it would not be up for dispute. If Barr prevails, though, the most fundamental building blocks of counterintelligence investigations — such as ensuring that the FBI can question people about contacts with hostile foreign agents and hold them accountable if they conceal them — are no longer things we can count on. Barr wants to create a twilight zone where such things can occur with legal impunity.

Apparently it is now a good thing, that the servants of the people dare not question courtiers of the King.

[scottw]

sorry about your frustration pete...try to relax over the weekend

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Glad to hear you hold Alan Underpants in such high regard. I suppose you also agree with his position on statutory rape.

Now Barr is saying Sullivan’s orders and the whole process leading up to Flynn’s conviction and sentencing was illegitimate. At least if Trump were to pardon Flynn, the basic premise that he had, in fact, lied to the FBI and pleaded guilty to it would not be up for dispute. If Barr prevails, though, the most fundamental building blocks of counterintelligence investigations — such as ensuring that the FBI can question people about contacts with hostile foreign agents and hold them accountable if they conceal them — are no longer things we can count on. Barr wants to create a twilight zone where such things can occur with legal impunity.

Apparently it is now a good thing, that the servants of the people dare not question courtiers of the King.

"Glad to hear you hold Alan Underpants in such high regard. I suppose you also agree with his position on statutory rape. "

I'm confused. Didn't you very recently post a 50,000 word article written by a former Jeb Bush staffer, to support your position that Trump is bad? Yes, you did. Does that mean you agree with every position that man has ever taken?

So why is it OK for you to support your position with words of someone who you don't agree with on other topics, but it's not valid when I do it? I'd just love to hear you attempt to explain that.

Pete, you are again and again, backing yourself into a corner from which there is no escape.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

the basic premise that he had, in fact, lied to the FBI and pleaded guilty to it would not be up for dispute. Barr wants to create a twilight zone where such things can occur with legal impunity.

Apparently it is now a good thing, that the servants of the people dare not question courtiers of the King.

"the basic premise that he had, in fact, lied to the FBI and pleaded guilty to it would not be up for dispute."

I don't dispute he lied to the FBI. But there seems to be some question about whether or not the FBI acted appropriately during the investigation. All the libs here are having trouble distinguishing between whether or not Flynn committed a crime, and whether or not the FBI broke the rules in trying to establish that he committed a crime.

"Barr wants to create a twilight zone where such things can occur with legal impunity"

Nooo...he wants to create a world where the government cannot break the rules in trying to bring criminals to justice. I have no issue with creating a world where the FBI doesn't set out "to get" someone for political reasons. They can't do that.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don't dispute he lied to the FBI. But there seems to be some question about whether or not the FBI acted appropriately during the investigation. All the libs here are having trouble distinguishing between whether or not Flynn committed a crime, and whether or not the FBI broke the rules in trying to establish that he committed a crime

You're getting distracted by the conspiracy theories Jim.

The DOJ didn’t drop the case because they thought he was manipulated into lying, they argued the FBI didn’t have the right to interview Flynn in the first place which is mind bafflingly absurd given the facts. Then they slip in a scab to do the deed because none of the career prosecutors would sign off on it.

Barr has taken us into serious thug territory with his actions, first manipulating the Mueller report, then Stone’s sentencing and now Flynn all to do Trump’s bidding and gaslight people like you into thinking it’s all a big hoax.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You're getting distracted by the conspiracy theories Jim.

The DOJ didn’t drop the case because they thought he was manipulated into lying, they argued the FBI didn’t have the right to interview Flynn in the first place which is mind bafflingly absurd given the facts. Then they slip in a scab to do the deed because none of the career prosecutors would sign off on it.

Barr has taken us into serious thug territory with his actions, first manipulating the Mueller report, then Stone’s sentencing and now Flynn all to do Trump’s bidding and gaslight people like you into thinking it’s all a big hoax.
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So if the assistant director says in writing, before the very fist interview "is the goal here to get him to lie nd get him fired",
you're OK with that?

Have you seen the released transcripts from the House Intelligence committee regarding Russia? Lots of senior democrats saying very clearly under oath, that there was zero direct evidence tying anyone in the administration to Russian election interference. Yet they said very different things when on cable news.

Anything at all to see there?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So if the assistant director says in writing, before the very fist interview "is the goal here to get him to lie nd get him fired",
you're OK with that?

You’re reading fragments of someone’s thoughts as they were deliberating about their objectives and recognizing quite rationally it could have political ramifications. In the end they did the right thing.

I have no problem with doing the right thing.

Have you seen the released transcripts from the House Intelligence committee regarding Russia? Lots of senior democrats saying very clearly under oath, that there was zero direct evidence tying anyone in the administration to Russian election interference. Yet they said very different things when on cable news.

Anything at all to see there?

You’re getting off topic.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You're getting distracted by the conspiracy theories Jim.

The DOJ didn’t drop the case because they thought he was manipulated into lying, they argued the FBI didn’t have the right to interview Flynn in the first place which is mind bafflingly absurd given the facts. Then they slip in a scab to do the deed because none of the career prosecutors would sign off on it.

Barr has taken us into serious thug territory with his actions, first manipulating the Mueller report, then Stone’s sentencing and now Flynn all to do Trump’s bidding and gaslight people like you into thinking it’s all a big hoax.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the court said there was no legitimate investigate reason for the interview. That's what the "I" is supposed to stand for in FBI. It's not supposed to be a weapon to use against political adversaries.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

the court said there was no legitimate investigate reason for the interview. That's what the "I" is supposed to stand for in FBI. It's not supposed to be a weapon to use against political adversaries.

You’re starting to sound like wdmso.
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[Pete F.]

This is not the first time that Barr interfered in criminal investigations involving Trump* courtiers. He also intervened to with a sentencing memorandum for Stone, that led to the withdrawal of four career prosecutors from the case and a call from thousands of DOJ alumni for Barr’s resignation. He earlier sought to soften the sentence to be imposed on General Flynn. This time, Barr has gone a step further and moved to dismiss the Flynn case outright. So once again, the lead prosecutor has quit the case, and the government’s filing was so unpersuasive that no career prosecutor was willing to sign it. It is signed only by a political appointee—Timothy Shea, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, who was appointed by Barr—acting at the Attorney General’s direction.

Flynn was caught lying about his conversation with a foreign ambassador during a foreign-counterintelligence investigation. The lie was material when Flynn admitted it was, and nothing has changed since he did so.

Barr’s actions are so destructive—they destroy the norms of discretionary decision making. The American system of justice asks prosecutors to consider systematic questions—for example, whether the prosecution is a federal-law-enforcement priority or will have a significant deterrent effect—and issues that are specific to the individual, such as a person’s criminal history and the seriousness of the offense.

But never, until now‚ has it been acceptable to ask whether an individual has political connections to the president. Or if the prosecution would benefit his political interests.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

The FBI knew Flynn had lied before the interview. Getting him to continue his dishonesty on the record isn't entrapment, it's good police work. Think about it, Obama slaps sanctions on Russia for election interference, Flynn talks to Russia about it, then lies to cover it up. The FBI didn't engineer this...it is the facts from the case.

Before the interview, the FBI was ready to drop the case against Flynn. It did not find that he did anything wrong. Nor was his conversation with kislyak illegal or treasonous. As the incoming National Security Adviser, it was not some illegal, nefarious, "talks to Russia," it was a perfectly legal conversation in response to the Russian Ambassador calling him and questioning a policy issue. Flynn did not say anything treasonous in the call. And knew that his call had been monitored. So there was no reason to lie about it. The FBI knew what was said on the call and had no need to have Flynn regurgitate the details. The sole purpose of questioning Flynn was to entrap him in a perjury charge. If Flynn didn't remember correctly and said the wrong thing, it was not a deliberate lie, but they would have what they really wanted. What they wanted was not to convict a traitor or criminal, it was to remove an obstacle that would frustrate their intention to preserve the Trump-Russia probe, as Andy McCarthy wrote: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...-russia-probe/

If Flynn had actually done something treacherous or illegal (other than so-called lying to the FBI), he would have, and should have, been prosecuted for that. They had no evidence of him doing any of that. They had no evidentiary reason for any further investigation of him (as I noted above, they were ready to close the investigation of Flynn), but he had to be removed in order to protect the attempt to continue the bogus Trump/Russia conspiracy. McCarthy spells it out very well in the above linked article.

[Pete F.]

On December 29, 2016 the Obama administration announced punitive sanctions on Russia.

The imminence of these sanctions triggered a flurry of communications between the Russian government and the Trump campaign. The Russian ambassador to the United States, Sergey Kislyak, reached out to Flynn on December 28. Flynn was vacationing in the Dominican Republic, but on December 29, he spoke multiple times with Kislyak.

On December 30, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that Russia would not respond to the sanctions. That same day, Trump tweeted his thanks: “Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!” Another round of calls followed between Flynn and Kislyak.

What exactly happened here? At first, Trump’s team denied that anything untoward had occurred. On January 15, 2017, Vice President–elect Mike Pence appeared on CBS’s Face the Nation to assure the country that Flynn and Kislyak had not discussed the Obama sanctions. “He had sent a text to the Russian ambassador to express not only Christmas wishes but sympathy for the loss of life in the airplane crash that took place,” Pence said, referring to a December 25, 2016, accident that had killed 92 people. “It was strictly coincidental that they had a conversation. They did not discuss anything having to do with the United States’ decision to expel diplomats or impose censure against Russia.”

Pence’s statement was not true. Flynn lied to the FBI about the calls. Back in 2017, Pence insisted that Flynn had lied to him too.

Flynn’s lies mattered because they may have concealed a deal between Trump and Russia over sanctions.

The Flynn-Kislyak call was recorded by U.S. intelligence agencies. The judge in Flynn’s case ordered that the call be released. The Department of Justice successfully resisted the order by arguing that the recording was irrelevant to Flynn’s conviction and sentencing.

And so Congress and the public remain unaware of what exactly was said to dissuade the Russians from retaliating in December 2016, and what—if anything—the Russians asked for in return. Congress and the public remain ignorant about whether Flynn acted on his own or was directed by President-elect Trump. Congress and the public remain uncertain whether Pence had himself been deceived when he delivered a false reassurance on CBS in January 2017—or whether he was part of the deceit.

[Pete F.]

Here are the predicates for the Flynn investigation and predicates are cumulative or in simple words, they add up.
Now if you look at these and you are a government official charged with national security, do you say there is a possible threat here (predicate) which makes the lies material or just walk away?
Walking away is what the DOJ leadership purports to be the correct solution.

1. A senior official with a TS/SCI (top secret/sensitive compartmented information) clearance working in the White House has ties to various Russian government entities.
2. He has traveled to Russia and taken large sums of money from a state-controlled Russian media outfit.
3. As the investigation of these matters was winding down, he has phone conversations with the Russian ambassador at a time when the United States had just imposed sanctions on Russia for interfering in the 2016 elections. In those conversations, he asked Russia to respond only in a measured fashion.
4. He subsequently lied to the vice president of the United States and other White House officials about the substance of those calls, causing the White House to issue inaccurate statements to the public.
5. The Russian government was aware of these lies, having participated in the phone calls, and the official was thus potentially subject to blackmail.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here are the predicates for the Flynn investigation and predicates are cumulative or in simple words, they add up.
Now if you look at these and you are a government official charged with national security, do you say there is a possible threat here (predicate) which makes the lies material or just walk away?
Walking away is what the DOJ leadership purports to be the correct solution.

1. A senior official with a TS/SCI (top secret/sensitive compartmented information) clearance working in the White House has ties to various Russian government entities.
2. He has traveled to Russia and taken large sums of money from a state-controlled Russian media outfit.
3. As the investigation of these matters was winding down, he has phone conversations with the Russian ambassador at a time when the United States had just imposed sanctions on Russia for interfering in the 2016 elections. In those conversations, he asked Russia to respond only in a measured fashion.
4. He subsequently lied to the vice president of the United States and other White House officials about the substance of those calls, causing the White House to issue inaccurate statements to the public.
5. The Russian government was aware of these lies, having participated in the phone calls, and the official was thus potentially subject to blackmail.

Pete, you criticized me for relying on Dershowitz's opinion. So please (for the second time), can you explain why you relied on the opinion of a Jeb Bush staffer to bolster your claim that Trump is a bad person? Do you agree with every single opinion that man has?

Boy do you have a problem answering questions.

[Pete F.]

Most, he's a good honest guy.

Dershowitz is a suckup and easily impressed, buddied up to Epstein and Trump, I'm not surprised you like him.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Most, he's a good honest guy.

Dershowitz is a suckup and easily impressed, buddied up to Epstein and Trump, I'm not surprised you like him.

there’s the baby i’ve been missing. you got called out for having weak arguments, and instead of admitting anyone else is right, or could even have a point, you go on the attack.

that’s what makes you a bore. that’s what makes you a bitch slapped pussy.

so Dershowitz doesn’t know
much about the law, despite spending his career at Harvard.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

there’s the baby i’ve been missing. you got called out for having weak arguments, and instead of admitting anyone else is right, or could even have a point, you go on the attack.

that’s what makes you a bore. that’s what makes you a bitch slapped pussy.

so Dershowitz doesn’t know
much about the law, despite spending his career at Harvard.
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Is this the point at which to praise liberal educational institutions, that you otherwise denigrate?
Really are you that much of a hypocrite?
Is Alan stealing money from you like Liz Warren or is his excessive salary OK because he said something you like?
Quite the hypocrite you are, guess you didn’t listen to the Jesuits you claim to have been educated by.
Maybe you should have gone to summer school
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Is this the point at which to praise liberal educational institutions, that you otherwise denigrate?
Really are you that much of a hypocrite?
Is Alan stealing money from you like Liz Warren or is his excessive salary OK because he said something you like?
Quite the hypocrite you are, guess you didn’t listen to the Jesuits you claim to have been educated by.
Maybe you should have gone to summer school
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again, it’s ok for you to rely on opposition opinion when it suits you, but wrong when i do it. I see.
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[Suburban]

Test. Test. Test. When it takes way to long to get tested and way to long to get the results How can we move forward ?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Suburban

Test. Test. Test. When it takes way to long to get tested and way to long to get the results How can we move forward ?
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if, and this is a big if, it’s more contagious than we thought, but far less lethal ( lots of evidence suggesting fatality rates under 0.5%), then we probably didn’t need to do this. but you nailed it, we need waaaaaay more testing.
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[Suburban]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if, and this is a big if, it’s more contagious than we thought, but far less lethal ( lots of evidence suggesting fatality rates under 0.5%), then we probably didn’t need to do this. but you nailed it, we need waaaaaay more testing.
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Lethal = risk category. Age , health, obesity, preexisting conditions will put you into a higher rate than 0.5%. I understand that more time is required to sort things out but if there is a plan other than sending people into harms way from our government why don't we know about it? Because there isn't one.
The disinformation campaign from this administration is pathetic.
Our country needs a real leader. DT is not it and is in way over his head. Dont we deserve better???

[Suburban]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if, and this is a big if, it’s more contagious than we thought, but far less lethal ( lots of evidence suggesting fatality rates under 0.5%), then we probably didn’t need to do this. but you nailed it, we need waaaaaay more testing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Lethal = risk category. Age , health, obesity, preexisting conditions will put you into a higher rate than 0.5%. I understand that more time is required to sort things out but if there is a plan other than sending people into harms way from our government why don't we know about it? Because there isn't one.
The disinformation campaign from this administration is pathetic.
Our country needs a real leader. DT is not it and is in way over his head. Dont we deserve better???

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Suburban

Lethal = risk category. Age , health, obesity, preexisting conditions will put you into a higher rate than 0.5%. I understand that more time is required to sort things out but if there is a plan other than sending people into harms way from our government why don't we know about it? Because there isn't one.
The disinformation campaign from this administration is pathetic.
Our country needs a real leader. DT is not it and is in way over his head. Dont we deserve better???

of course there are other plans. there are countries that didn’t destroy their economies, and they are doing ok, like taiwan and sweden.

the alternative plan would have been a strict lockdown on the at risk groups you mention, and let everyone else continue to live their lives. there’s evidence we could have done that.

if the goal is always to reduce deaths, let’s set the speed limit at 5 mph. or do away with cars entirely. that would save lives. but we don’t do that.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Suburban

Test. Test. Test. When it takes way to long to get tested and way to long to get the results How can we move forward ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

How many times do you think the staff in and around Trump and pence get tested


Yet the administration doesn't want to test Americans at 50% of the rate they test at in the WH

And those around Trump should get tested often it's a national security issues hes the POTUS ...

But I can't get tested unless I am symptomatic or work some place that does testing like nursing homes or prison or hospital, try to get an antibody test that's even harder..

But some see him as the best thing to happen to America in a long time .. minus examples of how of course LOL

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

How many times do you think the staff in and around Trump and pence get tested


Yet the administration doesn't want to test Americans at 50% of the rate they test at in the WH

And those around Trump should get tested often it's a national security issues hes the POTUS ...

But I can't get tested unless I am symptomatic or work some place that does testing like nursing homes or prison or hospital, try to get an antibody test that's even harder..

But some see him as the best thing to happen to America in a long time .. minus examples of how of course LOL

you could get tested if you were an actor or basketball player. is that trumps fault?
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you could get tested if you were an actor or basketball player. is that trumps fault?
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Good question

My brother got tested yesterday as a heart problem has him going through some procedures. He said the test was agonizing and held at a drive through at St Elizabeth inBoston.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Good question

My brother got tested yesterday as a heart problem has him going through some procedures. He said the test was agonizing and held at a drive through at St Elizabeth inBoston.
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hope hes ok.