Kerry - Swift Boats - Page 3 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

beachwalker · 08-08-2004, 07:42 AM

looks like more distortion of the facts by the junior. Just look at the choice of words, etc.

I love it. THIS GUY SCARES THE PISS OUT OF YOU FOLKS

Now Georgie, he is one of the most HONEST men we have had in the WHouse in ages.

what a joke finger pointing is. From both sides

Nebe · 08-08-2004, 09:19 AM

You live on an island...

beachwalker · 08-08-2004, 09:45 PM

ya so.......

spence · 08-08-2004, 09:59 PM

Did this guy say GW = honest

-spence

Nebe · 08-08-2004, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beachwalker
ya so.......

Do you live on an eeeevil Island?

RIJIMMY · 08-09-2004, 08:34 AM

Spence, I find it hard to use the "most Americans think" or " 55% of Americans think".
Personally, I think most Americans are morons. 60% of Americans are overweight, many smoke cigarettes, many believe what they see on the evening news as 100% and unbiased. Most live their lives in front of the TV. I don't take public opinion as meaning any thing. Neither did our founding fathers, thats why its not the populare vote that elects our president, its the electoral college.

Eb, as far as further "invasions" ....Iraq attacked Kuwait 13 years ago, as part of their "surrender", there where mandatory inspections, mandatory no-fly zones. Iraq kicked out inspectors and randomly shot at US planes enforcing the no-fly zones. Is it okay to shoot at Americas' enforcing the UN negotiated surrender? Think about it, they shot at AMericans, that alone is justification for war in my book. Iraq then let inspectors back in, then failed to comply with the requests. There were 3 UN security council resolutions demanding Iraq comply and promising severe consequences.
All 3 times they did not meet the requirements and all 3 times no country did ANYTHING, nor did the UN. Did you guys forget about all that?
Iran and N. Korea have not invaded their neighbors nor have they violated UN resolutions. N. Korea scares me and I think its a tricky situtation.

I'm not saying Bush is the best president ever, I just believe in the path he has taken. I do not believe he has misled the country I believe he acted in what he thougt was the best course of action. I believe 9/11 is a direct result of Clinton's presidency, and the Democrats cuts in intelligence and defense spending. John Kerry is not a good candidate for President, all he does is play the Vietnam card. He is a mediocre senator with no major initiatives under his belt.
I am not a republican many of my views - pro choice, funding for the arts and familes - side with the Dems. I wish Rudy Giullani was running, I'd vote for him. He also supports Bush.
Im shutting my mouth on this topic. I cannot say I agree at all with most of your arguments but thankfully we live in a country that allows us to discuss.

Big Vern · 08-09-2004, 11:09 AM

Sign up another person for Bush's "Scared Right" program.

If you think this country will be any less safe under Kerry, you are only lying to yourself and you have also bought into Bush's campaign startegy of scare tactics. Bush is not the sole provider of proctection from terrorism. Bush has merely seen advent of a new stance on terrorism brought about by 9/11. Previously, it was not okay to just go kill potential terrorists. You could watch them hang out in desert via satellite; however, you could not go into a foreign country to kill these terrorists without that country's explicit permission. After 9/11 it has been open season on terrorists - no questions asked. This change in doctrine is the only difference between Bush and his predecessors. The Bush camp realizes this is the only "achievement" they can campaign on. Accordingly, we have terror alerts over nothing; we are constantly put in a state of fear; we are told that only Bush can calm these threats; we are told the John Kerry can not curtail these threats. Get real. This country will be just as safe with John Kerry as it would be with Bush. So, voting for Bush SOLELY on the grounds of protection from terrorism is illogical at best.

What is more, isn't a war on terrorism just as arbritrary as a war on car accidents or a war on cancer? Wouldn't a potential war on cancer save many, many more lives than a war on terrorism? After all, isn't 200 billion dollars is a hefty pricetag to protect against such a rare way to die as death by terrorism?

Lastly, I am fiercely independent with more of a conservative lean, and I understand and feel that Kerry is not the perfect candidate, but I can't believe people are even considering voting for Bush. He is the epidomy of what's wrong with American politics. He is all negative campaigning. Have you heard one message from Bush that only centerred on Bush, his accomplishments, or record? Didn't think so. Have you seen nothing but a smear campaign? Is how you think American politics should be? Ask yourself. Question your vote, and vote with the facts not some lip service and negative campaigns.

spence · 08-09-2004, 11:18 AM

Well said

-spence

beachwalker · 08-09-2004, 11:27 AM

ditto

RIJIMMY · 08-09-2004, 11:41 AM

Im not scared at all. Im confident and I have no fear. You guys are the ones that want a change, so you must be afraid of something.

dc - Wouldn't a potential war on cancer save many, many more lives than a war on terrorism? After all, isn't 200 billion dollars is a hefty pricetag to protect against such a rare way to die as death by terrorism

Stop smoking, exercise, minimize stress and avoid processed foods.
There I just saved the country billions of dollars fighting cancer. Will anyone take my advice? Not likely.

PS - Bush is running a negative campaign? Huh? The media (liberal media by the way) feeds you junk and you eat it up. I do not follow anyone's campaign but do my own research. I do not listen to what the candidates say, I look at what they do.
Pretty tought to do with Kerry, he never did anything but go to Vietnam.

beachwalker · 08-09-2004, 11:57 AM

RJ, you should preface your statement that Kerry "never did anything but go to Vietnam" with IN MY OPINION

as a well researched american citizen you must have loads of substantive information to support such a proclamation.

RIJIMMY · 08-09-2004, 02:02 PM

Your right BW, hows this:
In my opinion, as a US senator, John Kerry has not achieved anything significant in his position. He has been a follower and not a major leader in any senate comittee or endeavor.

"I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life does begin at conception."

- John Kerry

"If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act."

- John Kerry

spence · 08-09-2004, 02:13 PM

20 years in the US Senate isn't an accomplishment? Just because Kerry hasn't sponsored a ton of bills doesn't mean he hasn't added considerable value and provided significant service.

I happen to share nearly the same position on abortion. Am I contradictory as well?

And your quote is out of context, read the full NYTimes op-ed piece and his position is crystal clear.

-spence

beachwalker · 08-09-2004, 02:27 PM

thanks Jimmy. You are a stand up guy.

Do you have a date for the second quote ? Was that before or after the Bush WH conned Congress into thinking that there were WMD's ?

You see I am not informed enough on this issue and you just might be.

I agree with Spence.

Because one DOESN't support abortion doesn't mean that is how you vote.A representatives job is to represent his/her CONSTITUENTS and not use it as a personal position.

Big Vern · 08-09-2004, 02:43 PM

Jimmy is a very typical Bush supporter - he knows nothing besides what Karl Rove and Co. has told him to think.

He proved one of my points too. Bush and his minions only focus on attacking Kerry. They NEVER EVER try and laud Bush. Ask them a question about Bush's policy - they answer by bashing Kerry. Ask them about Bush's vision for the future - they answer by bashing Kerry. Ask them about the 420 billion dollar deficit - they answer by bashing Kerry.

Jimmy, it's time you take some information from independent sources. And no, Fox News is not objective.

RIJIMMY · 08-09-2004, 02:44 PM

On the abortion quote, how can you say you believe life begins at conception and then support abortion? That means you support ending a life which = murder. How can you rationalize ending a life?
Is a fundamental belief of pro abortion that life does not begin at conception.

Big Vern · 08-09-2004, 02:52 PM

"Is a fundamental belief of pro abortion that life does not begin at conception"

Yes, and it is a fundamental belief of pro-choice that women have a choice regardless of the conception issue. He is pro-choice which is not necessarily pro-abortion.

RIJIMMY · 08-09-2004, 03:01 PM

So he believes that life begins at conception, and he believes in the right to terminate that life? So to rephrase: I believe that baby is alive and I also believe you have a right to kill it.
If you guys don't see the absolute absurdity of that, i give up. Kerry is definitely your man!

I'm going to try and grow up and not look at this thread again, Im a big boy I can do it.....will power

spence · 08-09-2004, 03:03 PM

The difference is...do you force your religious beliefs onto others, or does society create laws that are generally accepted for the common good?

It's clear that the majority of Americans believe abortion should remain legal in some form. If that's the case then it's the individual's morality that ultimately drives their choice.

I would think republicans would admire Kerry's position. He's a man of faith and believes in the individual (not govt) making decisions.

-spence

Big Vern · 08-09-2004, 03:05 PM

Abortion is the most fickle of issues. Each side will stick to their beliefs no matter what. It is a very divisive issue, and very few people waffle on the issue. However, people have agreed to disagree, and made it an issue of choice. If you feel strongly that an abortion is murder, don't get an abortion. If you feel strongly that abortion is not murder, feel free to get an abortion. There is no right or wrong side to the argument only strong feelings.

KLMulder · 08-09-2004, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beachwalker

Because one DOESN't support abortion doesn't mean that is how you vote.A representatives job is to represent his/her CONSTITUENTS and not use it as a personal position.

Ok I try to stay away from these discussions but I do have to say a few things. 1. If Kerry was voting the way his constituents want he would vote against abortion. Every poll done on this issue says the vast majority of Americans do not want abortion to be legal.

2. Allot of Kerry ( lib's dem's etc etc ) supporters like to run around and say that Bush is only attacking Kerry and not telling us why he is the best candidate. Well from where I stand BOTH of them are doing that NOT just Bush.

3. As for Bush trying to scare everyone into voting for him on the terror issue well the Dem's have been doing that for a long time, Scare the old people, scare the blacks, scare the Hispanics, scare the poor, scare the middle class. What's the difference?

4. Personally I am very tired of the Dem's telling everyone else that they are closed mind. They need to learn that by there criteria they are closed minded as well.

5. Kerry keep's telling us about these wonderful programs HE will institute and that HE will pay for them by repealing the Bush tax cuts, well an economist took all of HIS numbers and matched them up to what HE say's the Govt will get by repealing the tax cut's. Well by HIS numbers HE will spend 4 times as much as the tax cut's HE will repeal.

This is just a small list of problems I have with the Dem's. Someday if I feel the need to do so I will go into some of the problems I have with the Rep's.

Just so you know I WAS a registered independent until the second term of Clinton/Gore. They pushed me over the line to register as an Rep, Gore and now Kerry have done nothing but push me farther to the right.

NUFF SAID!!!

RIJIMMY · 08-09-2004, 03:21 PM

DC, view all these previous quotes, I've never bashed anyones' post nor their beliefs, I focused on the points not the people, yet you twice have steroetyped me and seem to have me all figured out.

You said I never laud Bush, Can you read? Below are quotes from my previous posting. Can you somehow dispute that I that I did not post the following:

1. "I'm not saying Bush is the best president ever, I just believe in the path he has taken. I do not believe he has misled the country I believe he acted in what he thougt was the best course of action"
2. "I'm employed, my company is growing, the economy survived a stock market crash and a terror attack and - we've had NO terrortist attacks on US soil ince 9/11. BUSH - 2004, I hope the next 4 years are as good as this."

I have no clue who Karl Rove is, I never watch network TV news, so stick your stereotypes up your arse.
I have NEVER insulted Kerry supporters in any of my postings. I have stated my opinion about Kerry only. I think Bush is a good president. Its so easy to sit on the sidelines and say all the things Bush did wrong. We'll never know what might have happened if things went differently.
Funny, I dont see any stupid pictures of Kerry on these postings? Looks like the Kerry supporters need childish pictures to make a point. I guess thats becasue Kerry supporters are wussy, uneducated, right wing liberals, most likely all social workers.
How do YOU like being sterotyped Jerk.

spence · 08-09-2004, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KLMulder
Every poll done on this issue says the vast majority of Americans do not want abortion to be legal.

Name one.

-spence

Big Vern · 08-09-2004, 03:34 PM

Whoa there...Settle down Jimmy...

I never stereotyped you other than saying your responses sound like the canned ones from the Bush campaign. And I'm the one being a jerk...

RIJIMMY · 08-09-2004, 03:39 PM

Your quote exactly:

"he knows nothing besides what Karl Rove and Co. has told him to think."

You never "sounds like canned responses"

What you said was wrong and now you deny saying it. Once again, Kerry is your man!

spence · 08-09-2004, 03:41 PM

Busted

-spence

Big Vern · 08-09-2004, 03:45 PM

Karl Rove is Bush's campaign manager. Everything you had said sounded like the stuff he puts out. I intended no offense. I certainly didn't call you a wussy or a jerk, and still haven't.

beachwalker · 08-09-2004, 04:12 PM

Let us get something VERY clear here

JOHN KERRY'S CONSTITUENTS ARE THE RESIDENTS OF MASSACHUSETTS. PERIOD

why is it so hard to understand somethings sometimes. comments flying off on wild tangents. Stop blaming people and start being substantively critical.

THAT is how people learn things (IMO) and become better informed.

likwid · 08-09-2004, 05:04 PM

Not like any of this matters, you all can argue about Bush and Kerry and Nader and whoever else you damn well and blow alot of smoke, huff puff, and generally piss each other off and make asses of yourselves when all the president is, is a FIGUREHEAD, he dosen't do crap anymore.

He just looks pretty and listens to the people in the back and what they tell him to say and do.

Skip N · 08-09-2004, 07:57 PM

Do you have a date for the second quote ? Was that before or after the Bush WH conned Congress into thinking that there were WMD's ?

In case you didnt know British and Russian intellegince also confirmed to Bush that Iraq had WMD...Not to mention Clinton and just about everyone thought Iraq had them....How did he con them???