OTW "Striper Cup Tourney" Format is Irresponsible to the Fishery

[Saltheart]

The big difference here is the cumulative poundage format. It encourages large quantities of fish be killed to make points.

I got no problem with tournaments and think they are fun. I got no problem with taking fish home to eat. I got a problem with killing fish to accumulate points in a tourney. The format of this tourney is what I'm protesting , not the tourney concept.

I'm really surprised at the number of posts that say something to the affect that ...."well we already do this wrong and that wrong. Why get upset about doing this tourney wrong?"

Its like saying...."I already cheated on my wife last year. I did it again last Christmas , what's wrong with cheating on her again tomorrow?" Just ask your wife if she goes for that logic??

[Slipknot]

OK Saltheart, I guess you've convinced me to sign up as an individual then. That way none ,if any, of the fish I weigh in will go to that club poundage most people are complaining about. I can't see myself keeping more than the usual amount of fish this year anyway. I'm with bigfish did I just say that?

Cranium, nope, you didn't miss anything, that's how it's written.

[nightfighter]

First time weighing in on this thread. So here goes;

1. I will enter and fish for S-B, if it enters as a club.

2. I will weigh in fish ONLY if they meet the 30, 40, 50 lb. slots, qualifying for pins, and maybe weekly/monthly prize. If I should be so lucky to catch and weigh in a fish in a particular slot, I do not intend to weigh another for that slot, but will rather target another, as yet unattained slot.

3. I will go to the festival in the hope that I can have a shot at a prize, and more importantly, see all you jamokes.

I disagree with a number of things stated in this thread so far. Among them, the high mortality rate of released fish (what the hell are they doing to them????) and the statement that someone without 10 to 15 years of this addiction can't grasp thaeoverall big picture. Forums like this, books, and insights from folks like Capesams and Flap can give great insight into the history, for those who care to read and think. (hell I've learned a great deal from your musings, Steve)

Have I gotten snobby over striper fishing? Hell yes. We who are concerned over a 'Kill' should be happy that the great majority of the yacht club set and surf/boat fishermen couldn't put 2 keepers in their boat on a weekly basis if their life depended on it. And how many googans do you go by on an average outing???? I don't want to be seen as a fishing snob, nor as being unaware of the conservation issues we have seen in the past. It's a fishing thing.......

[Saltheart]

Don't put words in my mouth Flaptail. I don't appreciate it any more than you did when someone questioned your motives for your comments here.

I simply said ...."Bob Pond had a vision , not a magic wand". The fact that he had a vision is fact not conjecture and is based on many times I talked with him at his Atom factory which is about 10 minutes from my house. He had a vision and acted on it and did good for the fishery despite fighting an uphill battle.

Reread what I said and if there's anything there you don't like , lets discuss it but don't put words in my mouth.

[Krispy]

In the schaefer clubs were allowed to enter only the ten top fish caught for each eligible species ( Bass, Bluefish, Cod and Weakfish, which were on the list, then off, then on again) per month. Therefore, the fish had to be big in order to garner the points and surf fish were worth two points as opposed to boat fish at one point.

Why didnt OTW follow that format, makes more sense.
Since there arent other species, they should seperate boat and surf into 2 fields.
I look forward to grabbing some pins

[BigFish]

Krispy....that is exactly what I am trying to say....you should go ahead and fish the tourney, ignore the club poundage portion of the tourney and just weigh your best fish should the fish merit keeping in your view! Thats all I am doing....not entering as a club member because I do not like the "kill for points" portion of the rules. If I am blessed with a 30, 40, 50 or even a 60 pound fish (like that might happen ) I will weigh it in accordingly.

[Krispy]

Worlds are colliding, I agree w/ BigFish, Flaptail and Saltheart in the same thread

[Saltheart]

Flap ,I don't want to highjack what has turned into a most excellent discussion and I don't know about ...Invariably leading people or ....what they might reasonably infer or ...what someone might have supported.

I can tell you three things that I know for sure Bob Pond was concerned about

he was definitely concerned about the run off of fertilizer into the Chesapeake Bay system and in particular that that run off extended way up into Cental Pennsylvania and Lancaster County where he could make little headway in convincing people concerned about their religion and culture that they should reduce their potential crop sizes by using less ferilizer to save some fish with stripes.

He was also concerned with possibly relocating fish to try to establish spawning areas in other places besides the Chesepeake bay and Hudson River ( I believe he actually transported fish to the CT river but I'm a little fuzzy on that memory)

He also was in favor of Catch and Release as evidenced by the fact that he would always let me know that his people would be glad to rig my poppers with single tail hooks instead of the standard trebles (if I wanted) to make it easier to practice Catch and Release .

These are facts from which people can invariably be lead or reasonably infer whayever they want.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

Flap ,I don't want to highjack what has turned into a most excellent discussion and I don't know about ...Invariably leading people or ....what they might reasonably infer or ...what someone might have supported.

I can tell you three things that I know for sure Bob Pond was concerned about

he was definitely concerned about the run off of fertilizer into the Chesapeake Bay system and in particular that that run off extended way up into Cental Pennsylvania and Lancaster County where he could make little headway in convincing people concerned about their religion and culture that they should reduce their potential crop sizes by using less ferilizer to save some fish with stripes.

He was also concerned with possibly relocating fish to try to establish spawning areas in other places besides the Chesepeake bay and Hudson River ( I believe he actually transported fish to the CT river but I'm a little fuzzy on that memory)

He also was in favor of Catch and Release as evidenced by the fact that he would always let me know that his people would be glad to rig my poppers with single tail hooks instead of the standard trebles (if I wanted) to make it easier to practice Catch and Release .

These are facts from which people can invariably be lead or reasonably infer whayever they want.

So what you are saying in this last part, if I may be so bold as to assume this, is that Bob Pond, who developed a fish catching bait as devastating on bass that he named it the Atom, was advocating C&R because he, like Robert Oppenhiemer, who developed the real A-Bomb, felt a touch shall we dare say, guilty, of creating such a powerful weapon? Hmmmm.......

Anyway, talked to the magazine today and some changes might occur. As C. M. says in his e-mail. Irresponsible they are not and will not be but as some wise old bird said before, "You can't please everybody". Human nature being what it is there will always be critics. Hopefully this will put some minds at ease. Now I got to hit the cellar cause I got loads o' plugs to finish. Two weeks and counting.

[Saltheart]

According to a letter from Chris Megan , OTW , posted elsewhere , OTW is trying to come up with a solution to the concerns raised about their tourney and the conservation issues. Good for them for listening and responding positively. Lets hope it all gets worked out to everyones satisfaction.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

According to a letter from Chris Megan , OTW , posted elsewhere , OTW is trying to come up with a solution to the concerns raised about their tourney and the conservation issues. Good for them for listening and responding positively. Lets hope it all gets worked out to everyones satisfaction.

[Cranium]

This is an email posted on another site. It is a response sent by Meghan to one of their members.

Folks,

I very much appreciate you feedback regarding concerns over fish counts
and how they relate to the Striper Cup Tournament. I especially admire
those who can respond with a level head in the hopes that some positive
change can follow. I will and do answer all emails that make sense and
don't tell me how to run OTW, but instead communicate, insightfully, how
OTW may need to address certain issues and can help with issues facing
all fishermen today.

With that said, I am looking at the possibility of tweaking the
tournament without changing the period of time. For those of you who
use words like "slaughter", "game fish", or "fish kill" to describe what
OTW is trying to achieve with the Striper Cup, I imagine nothing short
of canceling the tournament will suffice, that's not happening.

Any tweaking to the tournament will be updated on our web-site by week's
end. I ask you all to keep an open mind, as many of you already have,
and be apart of the process as OTW works through the growing pains of
reviving the once great, Schaefer Tournament, while keeping a watchful
eye on the conservation issues of today.

To that end, state biologists from CT to MA have studied this more than
many of us and have determined that two fish a day at 28" can be
harvested throughout the entire season without harming the year
classes. I don't necessarily agree with that assessment and would love
to see that number be reduced to one fish per day, which the bass stocks
can and do sustain. It is the very reason we limited the Striper Cup
catch to two fish PER WEEK or less than 15% of what the state will allow
any recreational angler during the course of a week. For those of you
not familiar with the old Schaefer Tournament, for most of the years, a
legal fish was 16" and you could take as many fish as you wanted.
Clearly, we veered from the path of the old tournament by greatly
reducing the fish that can be weighed. It may need to be further
tweaked, but blanket accusations and generalizations do nothing to
further any of your collective issues with OTW. Consider for a moment
that possibly, just possibly, the management program was so successful
that today striped bass are literally starving to death with limited
bait fish to sustain the strong stocks. I'm sure many of you have
caught 42" and 44" fish that weigh 23-25 lbs? Just 10 years ago that
was nearly a 30 + lb fish. That concerns me just as much and it is
something we at OTW look at very closely. Yes, commercial fishing has
taken it's toll on bait fish, but that is not the entire story regarding
the dangerously low bait fish counts.

Finally, consider this; I am lucky enough to work in the industry that
allows me to talk, write, speak, you name it, about fishing. My
livelihood is derived from the fact that we in New England have such a
vast and diverse fishery. If I am not a good steward of our fishery,
not only have I lost my passion, I've lost the best job I ever had.
Give me a little credit guys and let's work together. I firmly believe
there is plenty of room to run a tournament that will not adversely
impact the stocks..

Sincerely,

Chris Megan
Publisher
On The Water

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cranium

To that end, state biologists from CT to MA have studied this more than many of us and have determined that two fish a day at 28" can be harvested throughout the entire season without harming the year classes.

I'd love someone to find a source for this. I simply can't believe that's how they estimate the rec quota as he states. Mathmatically it simply does not compute.

-spence

[stiff tip]

girls all has been said ...u got the nod from otw,s publisher and staff about tweekin the rules + regs hope everybodys good w/ that ...now ladies lets put up or shut up ,,in or out ???yea or nae..lets put the baby to bed ....but if your out your opinion means $hit to me ...and if your in ,, may the better fisherman win....good luck ...dave

[spence]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

girls all has been said ...u got the nod from otw,s publisher and staff about tweekin the rules + regs hope everybodys good w/ that ...now ladies lets put up or shut up ,,in or out ???yea or nae..lets put the baby to bed ....but if your out your opinion means $hit to me ...and if your in ,, may the better fisherman win....good luck ...dave

It's pretty clear that you simply didn't show up for finishing school.

-spence

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

girls all has been said ...u got the nod from otw,s publisher and staff about tweekin the rules + regs hope everybodys good w/ that ...now ladies lets put up or shut up ,,in or out ???yea or nae..lets put the baby to bed ....but if your out your opinion means $hit to me ...and if your in ,, may the better fisherman win....good luck ...dave

NO, it's not "put up or shut up" and leming on over to the sign up sheet. Scuttlebutt has an announcement later this week on OTW's website, a lot of us will wait to see what that is and make a decision afterward. Some people already made up their mind one way or another.

but if your out your opinion means $hit to me ...and if your in ,, may the better fisherman win....good luck ...dave

That's just priceless. I just don't know what to say. Damn world is gonna end if people don't agree with you...

[stiff tip]

thanks for noticing spence...how could tell ??? i just think some of the squirrels have lost too many of there nuts..back to yooooou spence ?

[stiff tip]

john ,,,stick it ....your diaper ,been changed .... now go play with the rest of the childern.....john listening to your opininon truely means $hit to me ....go hug a tree..or better yet kiss my b-ass.... luv ya....

[LeCounts1099]

John R-- thank you, for having some balls & conviction as you run this great Site! If anything I thought you were very gracious & bending over backward on this thread, even to be understanding & encouraging to OTW & this poorly- conceived Tourney. No more Tourney- bound truck-loads of Fishers Is. Bass necessary in this World/ 2006!

Funny part about Stiff Tip is not that he missed Finishing school... (We figured that already)... But, rather: that he is a Writer??

Seems any Sixth grade English teacher would fail him! He must have one heck of an Editor over there!

Enough of trying to recruit John R & leading his flock to a very insensitively- designed Tourney, S.T.! Let OTW make the sensible changes necessary, and then you'll have to "sell" & cajole us much less! We here care about encouraging the needless killing of Stripers for man- hood purposes here on this Site-- titled "Striped-Bass.com" last I checked!!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

john ,,,stick it ....your diaper ,been changed .... now go play with the rest of the childern.....john listening to your opininon truely means $hit to me ....go hug a tree..or better yet kiss my b-ass.... luv ya....

Real good, just continuing to impress here Stiffy. If you don't like it, chose the exit door. Are you done?

[PNG]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

john ,,,stick it ....your diaper ,been changed .... now go play with the rest of the childern.....john listening to your opininon truely means $hit to me ....go hug a tree..or better yet kiss my b-ass.... luv ya....

WoW!

And as always John you have taken the high road

LeCounts mentioned the editor. The editor finally got around to addressing the spots issue, timely for sure. How many months after?

[Skitterpop]

Dave?

[Sea Dangles]

ST ,don't candy-coat it.Tell us what you REALLY mean

[Mike P]

Geez Dave--to think your publisher said that I'm the knucklehead in these parts

[Saltheart]

We are anxious to hear the revised , fish friendly rules. I hope the new rules will enable us to participate without reservation. I hope nobody minds that we actually read the old rules and will read the new rules too before committing. Seems like a reasonable approach.

Anyway , I'm surprised at the tone towards John. You should be thanking him for the chance you had to express yourself freely on this subject.

[stiff tip]

john wake up i,m pullin your chain....but the truth will set you free...its a fishin derby ment for the pleasure of fishing,,and friendship of the striper cup enteries

[spence]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

john wake up i,m pullin your chain....but the truth will set you free...

Yea John, if you wern't so uninformed you would have gotten the joke.

-spence

[stiff tip]

guys i got to go back to the home now ,, the doctor said i,ve been out long enouph ,and i need my meds,,,,cause i,m going to attack Russia ,,tomorrow .......

[BigFish]

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

guys i got to go back to the home now ,, the doctor said i,ve been out long enouph ,and i need my meds,,,,cause i,m going to attack Russia ,,tomorrow .......

For that, I HAVE A PLAN

Stiffy - with the possible exceptions of Slip & Flap, I don't think anyone read that as jest - but if so, OK with me. Somethings do not translate well over the Interfriekinnet...

Thanks