A Day Without Immigrants!

[stripersnipr]

Spence, I'm a little confused by your point on speeding. Using that rationale are you justifying illegal behavior because other people do it? Or is your point that if you commit small civil infractions you deserve no right to an opinion on a far more serious crime such as illegal border crossing? (yes it is far more serious than speeding) Or are you actually infering that speeding is no more serious than illegal border crossing? You make some good solid points but this doesn't seem to be one of them.

[Raider Ronnie]

In my opinion, this problem is way beyond repair now !!!
Some say there are as many as 20 million illegal imigrants in the country now from Maine to California!
How do we round up 20 million and deport them ???
Even if we did, they would just find a way to get back in the country anyway!!!
Plus,
I think there must be plenty of politicians and lawyers lining their pockets with $$$ causing this situation !!!

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

In my opinion, this problem is way beyond repair now !!!
Some say there are as many as 20 million illegal imigrants in the country now from Maine to California!
How do we round up 20 million and deport them ???
Even if we did, they would just find a way to get back in the country anyway!!!
Plus,
I think there must be plenty of politicians and lawyers lining their pockets with $$$ causing this situation !!!

I feel the same way somtimes, but you can;t allow yourself to give in to failure. Sure my ideas seem outlandish, but so far nothing else has even made a dent in the problem.

11 million illegals here is not a problem, it is an all out invaision, and I can say invaision because the Mexican government puts out a intruction manuals on how to invade with little problems. IF we did invade mexico and overthrow the government, sure it would lead to a battle, , but there are plenty of smart honest hard working mexicans here that would jump at the chance of being handed thier country. If we marketed it properly, we could make it more of a liberation than an invaision. There are enough Illegal Mexicans here that we could train to liberate their own country, they are not legal here right? so how can it be us invading? We are simply arming thier people.

[Jimbo]

Now, now, a laugh taketh away wrath. I actually thought Spence's Snake comment was pretty funny considering the solution to put a chunk of our troops on the border. Surely something has to be done there. Everyone is entitled to his own idea of what could or should be done, no matter how extreme. That's just brainstorming, but what I want to know is what incentive is there for someone to enlist or re-up if there's a good chance he or she will be standing shoulder to shoulder with another soldier for the period of that enlistment? You'd definitely be dealing with some unhappy campers who joined to see the world or learn a trade.

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Now, now, a laugh taketh away wrath. I actually thought Spence's Snake comment was pretty funny considering the solution to put a chunk of our troops on the border. Surely something has to be done there. Everyone is entitled to his own idea of what could or should be done, no matter how extreme. That's just brainstorming, but what I want to know is what incentive is there for someone to enlist or re-up if there's a good chance he or she will be standing shoulder to shoulder with another soldier for the period of that enlistment? You'd definitely be dealing with some unhappy campers who joined to see the world or learn a trade.

Who says they have to be there thier whole tour? you rotate them out, and they do not have to stand there, we build outposts. Does anyone realize how many borders we are protecting right now world wide?

I can't fathom how you think troops gaurding our borders is so outlandish, this is the very essence of what our military is based on is it not?

In Portugal, when you turn 18 you HAVE to serve a couple years mandatory. Why can't we do the same here? say when you turn 18 you have to serve just a year, after you graduate highschool. Why would that be so bad? there are plenty of options we have, but we as Americans are so spolied and detatched from the rest of the worlds reality that most would think this is ludacris as well.

[riarcher]

In light of all the above,,, I thought some of you may find this,,, interesting?


Working in Mexico


The following from a director with SW BELL in Mexico City who wants to share his experience.

I spent five years working in Mexico.

I worked under a tourist visa for three months and could legally renew it for three more months. After that you were working illegally. I was technically illegal for three weeks waiting on the FM3 approval.

During that six months our Mexican and US Attorneys were working to secure a permanent work visa called a FM3. It was in addition to my US passport that I had to show each time I entered and left the country. Barbara's was the same except hers did not permit her to work.

To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized originals
(not copies) of my:

1. Birth certificates for Barbara and me.

2. Marriage certificate.

3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.

4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of graduation.

5. Two letters of recommendation from supervisors I had worked for at least one year.

6. A letter from The St. Louis Chief of Police indicating I had no arrest record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was "a citizen in good standing."

7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated why there was no Mexican citizen with my skills and why my skills were important to Mexico. We called it our "I am the greatest person on earth" letter. It was fun to write.

All of the above were in English that had to be translated into Spanish and be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It produced a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and Spanish on the right.

Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours accompanied by a Mexican attorney touring Mexican government office locations and being photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location (and we remember at least four locations) we were instructed on Mexican tax, labor, housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their laws or face the consequences. We could not protest any of the government's actions or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand dollars in fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we could legally bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in Laredo Texas. This meant we rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our goods. There were extensive fees involved here that the company paid.

We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates and under contract and compliance with Mexican law.

We w ere required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing process. The company arranged for the licensing agency to come to our headquarters location with their photography and finger print equipment and the laminating machine. We showed our US license, were photographed and fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a six dollar fee. We did not take a written or driving test and never received instructions on the rules of the road. Our only instruction was never give a policeman your license if stopped and asked. We were instructed to hold it against the inside window away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it you would have to pay ransom to get it back.

We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number of our FM3 as our ID number. The companies Mexican accountants did this for us and we just signed what they prepared. I was about twenty legal size pages annually.

The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after paying more fees.

Leaving the country meant turning in the FM3 and certifying we were leaving no debts behind and no outstanding legal affairs (warrants, tickets or liens) before our household goods were released to customs.

It was a real adventure and If any of our senators or congressmen went through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico.

The Mexican Government uses its vast military and police forces to keep its citizens intimidated and compliant. They never protest at their White House or government offices but do protest daily in front of the United States Embassy. The US embassy looks like a strongly reinforced fortress and during most protests the Mexican Military surround the block with their men standing shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear to protect the Embassy. These pro tests are never shown on US or Mexican TV. There is a large public park across the street where they do their protesting. Anything can cause a protest such as proposed law changes in California or Texas.

Please feel free to share this with everyone who thinks we are being hard on illegal immigrants

[ScottC]

You know what guys, all this arguing tells me that most of you don't care about illegal imigration because it does not affect you directly, it doesn't affect me either, but when the day comes that an illegal takes your jobs don't come crying, after all it's only about as bad as a speeding ticket. I don't have the worry, I own and operate my one company, so I can just sit back and watch all you sympathisers cry an whine about it later.

So far none of you symapthisers has even come up witht ANY kind of idea or solution better than mine, I have come up with a bunch, sure you dont agree with them, but seriously, untill you can come up with atleast somthing , in my eyes you haven't earned the right to debate it because you have not put forth any REAL imput.

It is pretty easy to sit on the sidelines and be critical.

But if you would like to take the stance that nothing can be done, that fine, but that has already been proven as a dismal failure. Just let them be, let them come, but don't cry later, I know either way I am all set, I am in no personal danger of losing anything.

[The Dad Fisherman]

My Gawd its like working in the Dementia ward at the Old Folks Home.

[spence]

We don't care?

I'm still trying to get over the "illegals contribute nothing to our Country" line from Page 1! Have to agree on the ground rules before you can work towards a solutions.

The way some people here talk illegal workers are nothing more than sub-human leeches.

-spence

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by spence

We don't care?

I'm still trying to get over the "illegals contribute nothing to our Country" line from Page 1! Have to agree on the ground rules before you can work towards a solutions.

The way some people here talk illegal workers are nothing more than sub-human leeches.

-spence

They are not citizens and are here illegally, and they hurt the middle and lower class more then they help anything dude, just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong. Ground rules have been, and are still simple:
they are breaking the law, they need to go, how do we get rid of them.

If you don't agree with those ground rules then you have no business even debating this issue period. The little bit of money they do contribute in collected taxes can be easily consumed by the medical and other legal debt they accrue as a whole. So in the end, they are hurting more than helping.
They get into a car accident, they have no liscense, and no insurance, yeah they get deported, but the poor family who just lost there father gets the shaft. They lose their house and end up on welfare with nothing.

Bah, they are not hurting anyone right? This car accident thing was a big issue in Texas last year.


Point: When your here ilegally, no matter how good you act, because of your status you are forced to break a multitude of laws to function here, including drving a vehicle without liscense or insurance.

[spence]

Originally Posted by ScottC

They are not citizens and are here illegally, and they hurt the middle and lower class more then they help anything dude, just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong.

There are many who wouldn't agree. In 2001 Alan Greenspan cited a study before Congress indicating "Illegal workers (in Illinois) pay $547 million in taxes yearly, compared to $238 million in services used."

Ground rules have been, and are still simple:
they are breaking the law, they need to go, how do we get rid of them.

The notion that we should get deport all illegal aliens is clearly a minority position...

According to a recent NBC News/WSJ poll only 35% of Americans favored deporting illegal workers, while 61% favored letting them stay, work and pay taxes assuming security conditions were met.

If you don't agree with those ground rules then you have no business even debating this issue period.

Bunk, the majority of the Country and nearly all of Congress doesn't agree with your ground rules.

So in the end, they are hurting more than helping.

Based on what...an anecdote?

-spence

[spence]

Same NBC/WSJ Poll with a slightly different question...

The minority is shrinking

-spence

"Which comes closest to your view about what government policy should be toward illegal immigrants currently residing in the United States? Should the government deport all illegal immigrants back to their home country, allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States in order to work but only for a limited amount of time, or allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States and become U.S. citizens but only if they meet certain requirements over a period of time?"

Deport All - 18%
Remain for Limited Time - 17%
Remain if Meet Certain Requirements - 63%
Unsure - 2%

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by spence

There are many who wouldn't agree. In 2001 Alan Greenspan cited a study before Congress indicating "Illegal workers (in Illinois) pay $547 million in taxes yearly, compared to $238 million in services used."


The notion that we should get deport all illegal aliens is clearly a minority position...

According to a recent NBC News/WSJ poll only 35% of Americans favored deporting illegal workers, while 61% favored letting them stay, work and pay taxes assuming security conditions were met.


Bunk, the majority of the Country and nearly all of Congress doesn't agree with your ground rules.


Based on what...an anecdote?

-spence

Go tell that to Texas and southern California, The non mexican citizens that are being effected the most are the ones that should be listened to I am willing to bet that the 35% you speak of is based directly in those regions. all the Google info you drum up won't discount that. My father lives is Escondido, and they are just over run with illegals, hell there are deer crossing type signs on the highways with stick figures of people running and dragging thier kids!

It is illegal, no matter how much you google it, it is still illegal and should not be tollerated. Alan greenspan can blow me, there is no difinitive way to prove how much they put it, simple because what they are doing is illegal get it everything has to be an approximation unless they have a way of tracking all thier income, which is impossible becaseu they are ILLEGAL I hope you get to deal with the impacts someday, and lose your job to one of them or another situation. As a matter of fact why don't you just move to southern cal or texas and set up a center that deals with helping them out?

They are taking jobs from Americans, they steal healthcare, and your ok with that too. You should definelty relocate, your needed there.

[Skitterpop]

If any of us really cared we wouldn`t be here on a fishing site twisting off our opinions.

We would be out there working for or against it in a viable meaningful way.

[reelecstasy]

Send em packin, cya

[stripersnipr]

I support amnesty for all speeders, after all they are just in a hurry trying to make a better life for themselves and thier families.

[Jimbo]

Not for illegal immigrants, but immigrants, did a Snopes check and found this to be true. Sound words from Teddy:
Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.

I agree with pretty much everything said....but this one is up for interpretation.

This would put a pretty big dent in clubs like the Franco-American, The Loyal order of Hibernians, PLAV and other clubs that celebrate being American AND there own heritage.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language

I agree with this to some extent but I find it kind of unreasonable for us to expect someone who just got here to instantly speak English. English is not an easy language to learn if you've never spoken it before.

I've heard people say that they go into 7-11's and Dunkin Donuts and are upset because the person behind the counter can't speak english (which isn't 100% accurate, they speak very little English)....do any of you know when this person arrived here? Could have been last month, yet you expect them to lose there accent and speak fluent english by now. It takes years to learn the language and that is with proper training.....which I doubt they can afford on a Dunkin Donuts salary. They are probably trying hard to understand the language and learn it...but they aren't going to get much help from someone who is all pissed off because he had to repeat his order a second time....because the person behind the counter can make sure they are understanding it right.

I'll tell you right now, they may not speak very good english.....But I definitely don't get the attitude from them that I get from some White Anglo-Saxon pimply faced kid that speaks perfect english and is a citizen.

Well I'm off my Soap-Box now...

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

I support amnesty for all speeders, after all they are just in a hurry trying to make a better life for themselves and thier families.

yea my $80 ticket should be revoked, we let illegals break the law so why cant I? Why am i, as a LEGAL citizen getting punished, and Paco who hopped the fence gets welcomed with open arms and then gets free %$%$%$%$ that i as a LEGAL have to pay for? WTF?!

Why even have imigration laws if we dont enforce them? Why go through the entire legal process if it really meens nothing? When we are rewarding people for cutting in line, why even have a process at all? Just open the borders and let all of mexico in.


The more i think about it the more pissed i get...

[spence]

Speeding isn't really enforced all that much when you think about it. How many times do you drive down the road and see other speeders and you Skip... just look the other way

-spence

[Navy Chief]

You have some serious ideas for deployment of our military forces. So I would like to quote my favorite movie Colonel.

"I have neither the time nor inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post."

Go ahead and join up, then you can be part of the solution. Then you can make a difference.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Navy Chief

You have some serious ideas for deployment of our military forces. So I would like to quote my favorite movie Colonel.

"I have neither the time nor inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post."

Nicely Said...

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by Navy Chief

You have some serious ideas for deployment of our military forces. So I would like to quote my favorite movie Colonel.

"I have neither the time nor inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post."

Go ahead and join up, then you can be part of the solution. Then you can make a difference.

\

SEMPER FI

I will accept your appology gracfully
I blew L4 out during boot in 1992. Everyday I wake up with pain you can only imagine sir. This picture is right after the my first surgery, only later to be followed my 2 more.

I don't brag about anything , nor do I feel I have to name myself anything in the internet to gain respect. I joined to go directly the the gulf, and not to sit on a boat.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Now what were you saying?

[CJ Johnson]

Letter to Senator Frist from a retired border patrol agent(NOT bull being spewed from the Senate)
David J. Stoddard

Posted on 05/03/2006 4:55:21 AM PDT by IrishMike

This letter sent to Senator Frist from a retired border patrol agent has more common sense than all the bull being spewed from the Senate, with the exception of a few sensible representatives.

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. 2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. 3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. 4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. 5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. 6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. 7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". 8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. 9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. 10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. 11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America?
TOPICS: Editorial; Mexico
KEYWORDS: ALIEN; ALIENS; BORDER; BOYCOTT; BUSH; CONGRESS; DHS; ELECTIONS; FRIST; ILLEGAL; ILLEGALIMMIGRATION; ILLEGALS; IMMIGRANTLIST; IMMIGRATION; MAYDAY; MEXICO; PROTEST; RALLY; SENATE
body of Letter............

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the Unit ed States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.

3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?

10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price?

For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here?

There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010.

We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard

U.S. Border Patrol (RET)

Hereford, Arizona

[Navy Chief]

Can I trade 100 Portugees for 100 Mexicans.
I'll throw in a draft pick to be named later.


We need some authentic mexican food in Rhode Island.
Taco Bell don't cut it. I need some Carne Asada.
I need some menudo.

I miss San Diego

[spence]

I agree...

Never been that impressed with Portugese food.

-spence

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by spence

I agree...

Never been that impressed with Portugese food.

-spence

To be honest, me either. My mother in law is full portuguese and her cooking is absolutely horrible. everything is over spiced, and I don;t mean hot, I mean just over spiced, and they over cook everything. ANd most of the time they only cook meat, not vegitables! How the hell can you only eat meat for every meal. The only thing I found good is the stews.

Mexican food is by far the best, it is also considers the international food of choice.

[spence]

My best guess (never having gone to mainland Portugal or the islands) is that what we get around here is more akin to the blah Italian American cuisine so popular around these parts as well...basically Southern Italian inspired hard wheat pasta and too much tomato sauce, dumbed down during the war for a more frugal and straightforward US patron.

-spence

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by spence

My best guess (never having gone to mainland Portugal or the islands) is that what we get around here is more akin to the blah Italian American cuisine so popular around these parts as well...basically Southern Italian inspired hard wheat pasta and too much tomato sauce, dumbed down during the war for a more frugal and straightforward US patron.

-spence

My inlaws are from st Micheal in the Aszores, so they cook what they grew up on, and it is nasty. They don;t do pasta at all, pasta is not considers Portuguese food at all.

[ScottC]

Originally Posted by Navy Chief

We need more mexican food in Rhode Island.
I miss San Diego

Dad lives in Escondido, the little mexican girls go door to door selling tamalies