ATLANTIC STRIPED BASS ASSESSMENT SUMMARY FOR 2013

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

LOL. He never uses that type of language when we fish. Guess I am going to have to start using some 5 and 6 letter words instead of my usual 4 letter ones when we fish. I must be boring him to tears.

Lol or hyphenate and combine the four letter ones
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[Jackbass]

If we can not maintain the SSB target threshold maybe the MSY needs to be altered to reflect maintaining the target.
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[WESTPORTMAFIA]

This thread is worst than any of my urban dictionary posts. Delete or move to the political forum. This thread happens every year. It's older than Eve's TIIIT'S.
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[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by WESTPORTMAFIA

This thread is worst than any of my urban dictionary posts. Delete or move to the political forum. This thread happens every year. It's older than Eve's TIIIT'S.
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Sad but true. It shouldn't have to be a conversation.
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[WESTPORTMAFIA]

I'll refrain a little as I was only joking. But I think its a dead horse that belongs in the political forum
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[piemma]

WPM, you're right. It happens every year and we get no where. I am resolved to the fact that I will see the second moratorium of my life time for stripers. It is inevitable with the level of slaughter that is going on. I am not blaming anyone as the recs are as guilty as the comms with over harvesting what should be a game fish. But this IS a dead horse.

[Nebe]

It's not a dead horse. It's a horse you go out into a field every night and try to beat with a stick, but its never there. There used to be lots of horses in the field though..
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[l.i.fish.in.vt]

and some feilds that never had horses have more horses than ever.if the horses were distributed over all the feilds like years ago i would bet the number of horses has gone down slightly since there all time high some years back.not saying that measures shouldn't be taken to insure that there are horses in the future,but there are quite a few cowboys who speak out both sides of their mouths

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt

and some feilds that never had horses have more horses than ever.if the horses were distributed over all the feilds like years ago i would bet the number of horses has gone down slightly since there all time high some years back.not saying that measures shouldn't be taken to insure that there are horses in the future,but there are quite a few cowboys who speak out both sides of their mouths

Most of the time I talk out of my a&$. 😉
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[numbskull]

Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt

...............but there are quite a few cowboys who speak out both sides of their mouths

And quite a few money loving ranchers with their heads in a hole and pleased with the view.

[N.ShoreFisher]

in my young and inexperienced opinion, this is EXACTLY the type of thread that belongs here. I thought the main forum was for just these types of conversations. Does it involve politics? Yes, but anything that is organized will always have politics at play. The issue, at least as it seems to me, is that no matter what side you're on, the bass are "property" of people. The fisheries management, the recs, the state, the fed....everyone THINKS they know the best way to manage the stock. If people looked towards the future without regard to their own interest, I have a feeling that there wouldn't need to be these discussions. But, as we're talking about humans, there will always be people who are in it just for themselves. Maybe someday I will win the powerball, then lobby for a senior level fisheries management position so I could change from the inside out!

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

lets not forget the wealthy egotistical ranchers who have their noses so far up in the air they can't see whats in front of them.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by l.i.fish.in.vt

lets not forget the wealthy egotistical ranchers who have their noses so far up in the air they can't see whats in front of them.

You're wrong there, my smug vituperative friend.

My nose is in the air because I wear bifocals and that is the only way I can see what is left the pathetic striped bass population you are so eager to accept is healthy.

Yes, yes, I understand, there are plenty of striped bass...... it is just that they all live over the horizon now so lets just keep killing all the ones we can still reach and things will be fine. After all, the only good bass is a dead bass.

Alas, although you don't seem to realize it, you are right. There are plenty of striped bass if the 2011 YOY is correct. Soon we will be crawling in 16" fish again. And in 10-15 years they will even be worth catching. So in the meantime any remaining fish are expendable and under the law, as MakoMike so gleefully trumpets, they should be killed.

True, that will leave nothing but small fish to catch, but so what? With the help of fishery managers the commercial size limit can always be adjusted downward to take advantage of the bonanza of small fish and business can go on without any threat to sustainability.

What's not to like? Other than me, of course.

[chrisjoe13]

Originally Posted by numbskull

You're wrong there, my smug vituperative friend.

My nose is in the air because I wear bifocals and that is the only way I can see what is left the pathetic striped bass population you are so eager to accept is healthy.

Yes, yes, I understand, there are plenty of striped bass...... it is just that they all live over the horizon now so lets just keep killing all the ones we can still reach and things will be fine. After all, the only good bass is a dead bass.

Alas, although you don't seem to realize it, you are right. There are plenty of striped bass if the 2011 YOY is correct. Soon we will be crawling in 16" fish again. And in 10-15 years they will even be worth catching. So in the meantime any remaining fish are expendable and under the law, as MakoMike so gleefully trumpets, they should be killed.

True, that will leave nothing but small fish to catch, but so what? With the help of fishery managers the commercial size limit can always be adjusted downward to take advantage of the bonanza of small fish and business can go on without any threat to sustainability.

What's not to like? Other than me, of course.

Thank you for writing what many are thinking...

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by numbskull

So in the meantime any remaining fish are expendable and under the law, as MakoMike so gleefully trumpets, they should be killed.

If you don't like the law work to change it, don't blame me for it. MSA is up for renewal next year, so here is your chance.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

If you don't like the law work to change it, don't blame me for it. MSA is up for renewal next year, so here is your chance.

I don't blame you for it, Mike. It is just that your posts help highlight the problem, namely using the law as an excuse to continue hammering a fishery that is badly damaged (even if it is still sustainable).

[afterhours]

Anyone with eyes who has fished the last decade or so knows the truth. We don't need any convoluted BS slingers telling us what's happening here. Take the $ bounty off their heads and get back to 1 @36" and presto change we will once again have a world class fishery.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by afterhours

Anyone with eyes who has fished the last decade or so knows the truth. We don't need any convoluted BS slingers telling us what's happening here. Take the $ bounty off their heads and get back to 1 @36" and presto change we will once again have a world class fishery.

"Convoluted BS slingers"? It would be illegal to do what you are suggesting.

[afterhours]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

"Convoluted BS slingers"? It would be illegal to do what you are suggesting.

what did i suggest that's illegal??????? as far gov't biologists go i've had them tell me to my face that their #'s could be off by as much as 50%. and why do so many long time fishermen see what i see? denial- it ain;t just a river in egypt.

[JohnR]

Tragedy of the commons.

Originally Posted by Nebe

It's not a dead horse. It's a horse you go out into a field every night and try to beat with a stick, but its never there. There used to be lots of horses in the field though..
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[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by afterhours

what did i suggest that's illegal??????? as far gov't biologists go i've had them tell me to my face that their #'s could be off by as much as 50%. and why do so many long time fishermen see what i see? denial- it ain;t just a river in egypt.

You suggested 1) making them a gamefish and 2) raising the retention limit to 1 @ 36. Both of those actions would be illegal for the ASMFC, which is the managing authority for striped bass.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

You suggested 1) making them a gamefish and 2) raising the retention limit to 1 @ 36. Both of those actions would be illegal for the ASMFC, which is the managing authority for striped bass.

Could you point out which law ASMFC would break if it decided through amendment to change the status of sb and the limit? My understanding of the law is that ASMFC is given the authority to make those amendments. I am pretty sure what you are saying is tantamount to saying that congress would break a law by changing the law. I could be wrong...

[big jay]

MMike- if the next YOY assessment is low, will that trigger the reductions?
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[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by big jay

MMike- if the next YOY assessment is low, will that trigger the reductions?
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Maybe. The key number is the SSB, but the YOY index does affect the estimate of the SSB. But since the YOY don't recruit into the SSB for 5-6 years old, it may not have much of an effect.

[Nebe]

Once I heard that the lobsterman of southern New England and Long Island sound were blaming the lobster crash on striped bass I knew bass would never be fully protected. Bass are like zack said.. A single piece in the puzzle.
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[MAKAI]

Kinda think bass would prefer bunker....if there were any left around.
We all know lobster sucks without a pound of melted butter to drown it in.
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[MAKAI]

And then pulls out vituperative.......Fn way to go !
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[zimmy]

This diagram pretty much shows what most of us are experiencing. The rec. catch is half of what it was from the top of the mountain from about 2000-2008. It clearly isn't lower because people decided to release more fish. Half the reward for the same effort. Twice the effort doesn't even get you to what you had for those years. So now we have half of what we have yet slaughter pretty much at will. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if 2013 is at 1994 levels. Couple more years we should be back at 1992 levels. Only benefit of that is that maybe the circus will go away for a decade or so.

[zimmy]

Change to 1@36 would be easily legally defended based on MSA, although it might require another amendment by ASMFC. ASMFC reports that overfishing is likely to occur in the near future. They could use yoy and the trend in catch rates to defend its legality as a preventive measure in response to predicted overfishing or just reverse amendment 6.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Change to 1@36 would be easily legally defended based on MSA, although it might require another amendment by ASMFC. ASMFC reports that overfishing is likely to occur in the near future. They could use yoy and the trend in catch rates to defend its legality as a preventive measure in response to predicted overfishing or just reverse amendment 6.

I doubt it, but it would depend on what F factor 1 @ 36 would yield. I strongly suspect that the F factor (mortality rate) would be far less than what is required to prevent "overfishing" in the future.