Ferguson

[buckman]

12 businesses burnt to the ground including the community outreach center.
I'm not sure what you call the people that did this and looted the businesses but they have no place in our society. I have no use for people like this if they didn't exist , the world would be a better place.
No excuses
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

12 businesses burnt to the ground including the community outreach center.
I'm not sure what you call the people that did this and looted the businesses but they have no place in our society. I have no use for people like this if they didn't exist , the world would be a better place.
No excuses
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

They're called criminals Buck.

No excuse for their actions but also there should be no excuse for how the local PD and government have really exacerbated the tensions in this whole affair from the start.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

They're called criminals Buck.

Yet - they are getting the majority of the free pass compared to everyone else.

Originally Posted by spence

No excuse for their actions but also there should be no excuse for how the local PD and government have really exacerbated the tensions in this whole affair from the start.

I hate seeing the "militarization" of local law enforcement but what happened last night was what they feared would happen in August. They deserve some of the blame but I think the lion's share does go to the unruly mob AND the "Activists" that are riling them up.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Yet - they are getting the majority of the free pass compared to everyone else.

I think people will question the law enforcement's apparent decision to let the fires burn. They got burnt with over-reaction before but can't be absent.

I hate seeing the "militarization" of local law enforcement but what happened last night was what they feared would happen in August. They deserve some of the blame but I think the lion's share does go to the unruly mob AND the "Activists" that are riling them up.

And many elements of the media as well.

What I'm not hearing much of is the bigger issue. A police force in need of rehab, a poor community disenfranchised, a lot of confused and contradictory information and a decision made behind closed doors with a promise of evidence being released...then taken away.

The officer may well have been 100% in the right but considering how tortured this case has been to make a decision behind closed doors, call a state of emergency well in advance, continuously call for calm and then release a lengthy explanation at 9pm...WTF are they thinking?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

What I'm not hearing much of is the bigger issue. A police force in need of rehab, a poor community disenfranchised, a lot of confused and contradictory information and a decision made behind closed doors with a promise of evidence being released...then taken away.

Yes, this is the "bigger" issue. It is another niche issue in the plethora of issues in our country which must not rest with the people of a community, or state to sort out. All the "issues" that plague us as a country of "diverse" cultures must not be left to local cultures to evolve and sort out their problems. Only the hand of a disinterested central power is capable of molding us into a unitary society with "correct" values and principles. And those values and principles must not be left to some national vote by people who have little in common, other, perhaps, than to be free to practice their own values and principles. Even that would be too chaotic, un-resolute, and unjust to some "minority." And there will always be a minority or minorities.

So local police forces, communities (disenfranchised or otherwise), must step aside and let the central power with its superior experts step in and sort things out in the correct way. Which is what the so-called "disenfranchised" community in Ferguson and in the rest of the country are requesting in the wake of the verdict.

Do not let a crisis go to waste.

The ultimate "issue" of "social justice" must not be left up to the whims of stupid Americans.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I think people will question the law enforcement's apparent decision to let the fires burn. They got burnt with over-reaction before but can't be absent.


And many elements of the media as well.

What I'm not hearing much of is the bigger issue. A police force in need of rehab, a poor community disenfranchised, a lot of confused and contradictory information and a decision made behind closed doors with a promise of evidence being released...then taken away.

The officer may well have been 100% in the right but considering how tortured this case has been to make a decision behind closed doors, call a state of emergency well in advance, continuously call for calm and then release a lengthy explanation at 9pm...WTF are they thinking?

"I think people will question the law enforcement's apparent decision to let the fires burn"

As to the first riot, it was the police's fault because they over-reacted. Last night, it's their fault because they under-reacted. Got it. How much blame do you assign to the feral rioters?

"a poor community disenfranchised"

Right. Textbook liberalism. It's not that these people need to learn new values (or go to jail to rot), they only rioted because of what society (especially white society) has inflicted upon them <sniff>. The tides are less predictable than this bullcrap.

"make a decision behind closed doors"

That's called rule of law, something not valued very highly by your side. In that state, grand jury proceedings are secret. Do we change the rules every time Al Sharpton opens his fat mouth?

Let's also mention that Obama was obviously in a unique position to bridge this divide a bit, and like everything else, he's been an abject failure, as we are far more polarized than when he took office.

Looks like there was zero evidence to support an indictment. Even if you concede that the cop was wrong to fera for his life, that shouldn't be a crime. It might be cause for dismissal from the police force.

This thug (that's right, "thug", I said it) strong arms an elderly clerk to steal cigars, somthing that 99.99% of the population woulk dnever think of doing. Then he's walking down the middle of the street, the cop tellls them to get out of the street and walk on the sidewalk, he refuses. Instead of complying, there is a struggle inside the police car?

You want to struggle with a cop who has a gun, you takes your chances.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

I think people will question the law enforcement's apparent decision to let the fires burn. They got burnt with over-reaction before but can't be absent.

Few issues: They only have so much resources so they have to triage to protect themselvers, the "City Square", and to protect the lawful protestors and arrest the "thugs".

They cannot get fire personnel safely into fight fires in areas that are not safe and then maintain that safety corridor. There was gunfire going off in addition to brick throwing, looting, and burning.

If they go in very heavy handed they may exacerbate an already deteriorating & fluid situation and have a bigger issue they are unable to control.

Originally Posted by spence

And many elements of the media as well.

Many elements of the media did a major disservice to the situation on he ground. I watched CNN until midnight and their crack staff weere more than happy to run opinion rather than sticking to the a Joe Friday.

Originally Posted by spence

What I'm not hearing much of is the bigger issue. A police force in need of rehab, a poor community disenfranchised, a lot of confused and contradictory information and a decision made behind closed doors with a promise of evidence being released...then taken away.

So how do you round out that circle? Turn the police department into a diversity formula reflecting the racial makeup of the community? Quotas?

Originally Posted by spence

The officer may well have been 100% in the right but considering how tortured this case has been to make a decision behind closed doors, call a state of emergency well in advance, continuously call for calm and then release a lengthy explanation at 9pm...WTF are they thinking?

So what to do here? Change the laws to fit the wishes of the residents of Ferguson? Or ignore the laws and provide a "sentence" that appeases a community outrage at the expense of the officers civil rights?

Instead, the applied US law and when the prosecutor felt there was not enough evidence to indict the officer, a Grand Jury was formed to have a group of CITIZENS of the community hear the testimony, review the facts, and inspect forensics to see if the case warranted ELEVATION to press criminal charges. The Grand Jury did not feel there was sufifcient evidence to elevate the case.

The vocal community, the agitators that went to Ferguson, and the media that beat the drums of sensationalism had already made up their mind on rumor and hearsay that the officer was guilty and demanded "justice" for Michael Brown.

The law ain't perfect but it is pretty good & when fairly applied it is color blind.

Grand Jury: A grand jury is a legal body that is empowered to conduct official proceedings to investigate potential criminal conduct and to determine whether criminal charges should be brought. A grand jury may compel the production of documents and may compel the sworn testimony of witnesses to appear before it. A grand jury is separate from the courts, which do not preside over its functioning.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

They're called criminals Buck.

No excuse for their actions but also there should be no excuse for how the local PD and government have really exacerbated the tensions in this whole affair from the start.

You blame the police department and the government???
By government I assume you mean the Obama administration. That I agree with.
CNN, The Al Sharpton's of the world, the Black Panthers, the black caucus, And just about anybody who wants to make the divide between blacks and whites larger ...that is who I blame
But mostly I blame Michael Brown
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

You blame the police department and the government???
By government I assume you mean the Obama administration. That I agree with.
CNN, The Al Sharpton's of the world, the Black Panthers, the black caucus, And just about anybody who wants to make the divide between blacks and whites larger ...that is who I blame
But mostly I blame Michael Brown
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"You blame the police department and the government???"

Of course he does. That's Liberalism 101, the lack of personal responsinbility. You see, these people have been anointed by liberals with "victim" status, and so anointed, NOTHING they do is ever their fault. It's always someone else'e fault, preferably the fault of someone with lighter skin pigmentation.

"By government I assume you mean the Obama administration"

i'm sure that's excatly what he means...

"The Al Sharpton's of the world, the Black Panthers, the black caucus, And just about anybody who wants to make the divide between blacks and whites larger ...that is who I blame
But mostly I blame Michael Brown"

There it is, summed up almost perfect. I'd say the police botched certain aspects of the investigation (left his body on the street for a long time, kept changing the official story of what happened). I'd also be leaning towards faulting the police/National Guard for letting the riots happen. In my opinion, the best way to prevent something like that is an overt display of overwhelming force, THAT'S a deterrent to people like this, you just need sufficient numbers, and the government has the responsibiity to the law-abiding citizens to do anything that's required to prevent this. Those store owners who lost everything should never have to pay a cent in taxes again as long as they live, and send the bill for repairs to MSNBC and tax cheat Al Sharpton.
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