TWO BASS FOR RI CHARTER AND PARTY BOATS?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

Legal (or not), while you argue 1 vs 2:

They have their quota based on the same science as the rec quota.
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[Piscator]

Originally Posted by buckman

They have their quota based on the same science as the rec quota.
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As much as that picture might make you want to puke, their (comm) quota is actually documented...rec quota isn't...we have no clue how much the recreational sector take is...all guess work but no actual count and that's a problem...
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[DZ]

Rhode Island update: This is all second hand from someone who attended. Meeting was held on Tuesday and attended by ASMFC RI state commissioners and a limited amount of representatives from RISAA, RI Party & Charter Association, and state fisheries biologists. Discussion revolved around CE (Conservation Equivalency). Although it was supposed to be a small meeting of just a few reps from each group the word got out to RIPCA and they “filled the room” with their members, not my words.

For hires are convinced 1 fish bag will severely impact their business and are pushing for a 2 fish bag. Majority of other rec groups are pushing to maintain a 1 fish bag. State Biologists seem to prefer 1 fish.

What will probably happen next: Rhode Island and other states will hold public hearings in January on the issue of CE. These meetings must be completed by the mid-winter (Feb 3-5) meeting of ASMFC where the issue of Conservation Equivalency will be discussed. These state hearings will obviously be very important. If you have an interest in the future of striped bass it is imperative that you show up at these meetings or write letters to your state commissioners.
A link to state commissioners:
http://www.asmfc.org/about-us/commissioners

[bobber]

Originally Posted by DZ

Rhode Island update: .

For hires are convinced 1 fish bag will severely impact their business and are pushing for a 2 fish bag. Majority of other rec groups are pushing to maintain a 1 fish bag. State Biologists seem to prefer 1 fish.

What will probably happen next: Rhode Island and other states will hold public hearings in January on the issue of CE. These meetings must be completed by the mid-winter (Feb 3-5) meeting of ASMFC where the issue of Conservation Equivalency will be discussed. These state hearings will obviously be very important. If you have an interest in the future of striped bass it is imperative that you show up at these meetings or write letters to your state commissioners.
A link to state commissioners:
http://www.asmfc.org/about-us/commissioners

I cannot emphasize how important this is.......

the battle was not won back in October- ASMFC left the door open (obviously- we've been talking about it here for weeks) to continued over-exploitation despite the appearance of making meaningful reductions. (in this case, the only ones taking any true reductions are the commercial guys.....)

SO KEEP PAYING ATTENTION.... the fun is yet to come

[Mike P]

Actually, the presence of two huge schools in localized areas, and little to none everywhere else, is as good a sign of being on the brink as there is.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Actually, the presence of two huge schools in localized areas, and little to none everywhere else, is as good a sign of being on the brink as there is.

Exactly. Same thing happened in the late 80s except it was more a shore thing at the Block. Ask DZ. He wrote a book about the huge fish in the late 80s at the Block. At the same time, if you read any of Frank Daignault's books you will see the Back Beaches were devoid of fish.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Actually, the presence of two huge schools in localized areas, and little to none everywhere else, is as good a sign of being on the brink as there is.

Who said 2 ? That's pretty dismissive .
To be honest ,you guys have spent more time on this then I . We tuna fish a lot and the damn stripers just become a nuisance
My concern is that an emotional overreaction is going to hurt families
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[bobber]

I don't think the decreased traffic on here has anything to do with "the masses believing the same thing" at all.....

this place has evolved. a lot of topics have been covered (many have been repeated and repeated again....) in full detail.



that- and the fishiing really kinda sucks. not much to talk about there.

and I disagree with you that there is no room for dissent on here- this is by far the most reasonable site for open discussion that I've found. are most of the folk on here like-minded, conservation-motivated types? Sure. but the comm guys still have a voice and their opinion is respected (at least from my standpoint......)

[PRBuzz]

There is some, limited, justice!

http://www.wboc.com/story/27654367/t...-poaching-case

[MAKAI]

Good luck collecting the fine.
After a very short stretch in the pen.
That tobacco chewing good old boy will more than likely be kicking back with his feet up on his porch rail. Reaping the liberal benefit system courtesy of the people who put in an honest 40 to 50 per week.
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[ronfish]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Good luck collecting the fine.
After a very short stretch in the pen.
That tobacco chewing good old boy will more than likely be kicking back with his feet up on his porch rail. Reaping the liberal benefit system courtesy of the people who put in an honest 40 to 50 per week.
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And the didn't even get the ones who bought the illegally caught fish. If they bought on the black market once then they'll do it again, so until they are caught nothing will change just the names. Ron

[Cool Beans]

What I noticed this year in my corner of the bay:

Tons of spring squid
I caught stripers all season (my best year ever from kayak and shore)
Black Sea Bass (most I've seen in a while)
Fluke (was very good as well)
Tog (amazing amount of huge tog)
Large Scup (were thick and everywhere)
the only fish I saw a decline in is Blues (only caught 5 all year).
Due to pier closure was not able to see the fall squid.

On here "there are no fish" usually means the fish are biting, but now with this topic I think you guys might be serious, but I am not 100% sure.

I can't help but wonder "Is the sky really falling?"

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

Just because that is the consensus HERE, it's not a tell tale of the fishery.
This place has all but forcefully evicted anyone who dares to differ with the opinion of the masses. Just look at this thread and the negative comments. Anyone who has a different opinion is greedy, corrupt, ignorant or all of the above.
Used to be Friday nights you couldn't keep track of all the threads on here. Today your lucky if there's 2 posts over the weekend. The reason the masses here all believe the same thing is that anyone who dares to differ, doesn't even bother to post anymore.

Soon there will be 100% agreement on This board.

Amen... almost seems like a requirement when posting a picture to add "swam away to fight another day".
Killing and eating your fish is almost sure to get you the stink eye with a lot of folks here. I am thankful to what I catch and I am careful when filleting my catch to not waste any of the fish my family greatly enjoys eating.

[Got Stripers]

I have no problem with a stimulating debate and while I didn't catch a single keeper this year; doesn't mean I wouldn't bleed it and eat it. I'd prefer to eat tog or black sea bass, but have no problem with anyone taking their legal limit or posting pictures of fish coming home for the table. I also have no issue with charters, promoting trips that will allow clients to bring a legal limit home, although I would applaud those that promote catch and release.

I think we have a pretty diverse crowd in here, from NH to the South Shore of RI, with boaters, surfcasters and yakers. So when I suggest that the majority on this board seem to agree that for a number of years the bass fishing is really declining, it seems to be coming from a large sampling of fishing styles, states and age groups. Certainly there are exceptions, buckman and the freak may be fishing waters that have yet to see the decline, or possibly as piemma suggests, those waters may be some of the last strongholds of summering stripers.

We all collectively control our own fate, but when I see channel 5 highlighting the fates of the fishing community with new regulations, I question whether if we the recreational fisherman would ever be given that same voice. Seems the commercial voice gets the news spots, I have yet to see anyone questioning on TV why we continue to over fish our waters and subsidize those that can't make it a viable living.

Imagine the charter business everyone would have if we made that fish a game fish and really regulated those that would deplete the bunker or other baitfish populations they rely on. Not everyone can or wants to own a boat; there would be serious money spent to get in on that action. I know I'd love to experience it again some day, been far too long since I've been in on a big fish blitz.

[ivanputski]

So will ignoring all the warning signs and supporting 2 dead fish get me off the closed minded list?
. I'm a close minded bully because i my opinion differs from yours?
Ridiculous.
People are sticking to their position out of passion for fishing, and hopes of protecting the very source if their most treasured past time. No one is trying to mess with your paycheck... But if the stocks collapse, business wont be slow, it will be non existent.
Why fight against erring on the side of caution? Whats good for the fish is good for business... And vice versa
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[afterhours]

Originally Posted by ivanputski

People are sticking to their position out of passion for fishing, and hopes of protecting the very source if their most treasured past time. No one is trying to mess with your paycheck... But if the stocks collapse, business wont be slow, it will be non existent.
Why fight against erring on the side of caution? Whats good for the fish is good for business... And vice versa
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exactly.

[DZ]

I find the debate constructive but this is probably why it seems one sided on this site. It mirrors the big picture during the ASMFC hearings:

92% of all public comments favored one year implementation
87% of all public comments favored a one fish bag limit option (Option B)
The great majority of public that attended the ASMFC public comment hearing came out in support of one fish bag limit
Fishing groups representing perhaps tens of thousands of anglers came out in support of a one fish bag limit:
RFA came out in support of one fish bag limit
NY Sportfishing Federation came out in support of one fish bag limit
NYCRF came out in support of one fish bag limit
Numerous surfcasting clubs and organizations came out in support of one fish bag limit.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by DZ

I find the debate constructive but this is probably why it seems one sided on this site. It mirrors the big picture during the ASMFC hearings:

92% of all public comments favored one year implementation
87% of all public comments favored a one fish bag limit option (Option B)
The great majority of public that attended the ASMFC public comment hearing came out in support of one fish bag limit
Fishing groups representing perhaps tens of thousands of anglers came out in support of a one fish bag limit:
RFA came out in support of one fish bag limit
NY Sportfishing Federation came out in support of one fish bag limit
NYCRF came out in support of one fish bag limit
Numerous surfcasting clubs and organizations came out in support of one fish bag limit.

And don't forget that if you disagree with someone who wants a special exception and different rules so it benefits themselves, "you're jealous".
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[Sea Dangles]

It is nice that a few dissenting voices are able to state their opinion and receive feedback in a respectful manner. They certainly exhibited the courage and fortitude that will enable them to drive the species to the brink. It is a shame that hurt feelings will make these brave souls go elsewhere to seek acceptance and agreement. I saw no name calling,nobody getting shouted down,just differing opinions. What does one expect when an unpopular stance is taken in a passionate topic like this? People don't have to agree,I think if it is taken personally then it is time to walk away for a bit without any drama. It is not the fault of anyone here that the alleged facts were not able to sway the opinion of the masses.
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[ivanputski]

"My concern is that an emotional overreaction is going to hurt families"


And my concern is that regulations based on what is finacially best for charters will hurt the remaining fish population.
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[bobber]

I think DZ makes the most telling point-

the reason "the masses" on here are in favor of a one fish limit is that THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE FISHING PUBLIC also support a one fish limit.....

again- I'm sympathetic to the guys that may feel some hardship if their business suffers as a result of bad reductions.


But- this is a democracy, right?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by bobber

I think DZ makes the most telling point-

the reason "the masses" on here are in favor of a one fish limit is that THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE FISHING PUBLIC also support a one fish limit.....

again- I'm sympathetic to the guys that may feel some hardship if their business suffers as a result of bad reductions.


But- this is a democracy, right?

Well that's a good sign that that many Rec fisherman and shore fishermen are so involved. After all they are responsible for the majority of dead stripers. Both harvested and dead discards .
I'd be willing to bet some of you guys that fish every day and release the majority of your fish still kill more than we do on our boat in a year.
Perhaps you should change species
We are all in agreement that striped bass could use a little help. But we don't agree on is whether the math that is been calculated will achieve the same result.
I believe it does . Even in a democracy sometimes the majority does not get to drive the minority out of business over pettiness .
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[piemma]

Originally Posted by buckman

Even in a democracy sometimes the majority does not get to drive the minority out of business over pettiness .
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I really think you have missed the point.

No one is advocating driving anyone out of business. Look at it this way, if the charter boats don't buy into 1 fish per angler per day, they will put themselves out of business because, eventually, there will be no bass left to catch.

[Got Stripers]

If it gets to a moratorium, the charters would then be losing more than a little business, I would think they would see the writing on the wall and agree that while this might hurt some; it's better than the alternative in a year or two.

[JFigliuolo]

Originally Posted by buckman

...SNIPPED But we don't agree on is whether the math that is been calculated will achieve the same result.
I believe it does . Even in a democracy sometimes the majority does not get to drive the minority out of business over pettiness .
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Please go back and either READ or RE-READ my post and tell me you still believe that the math makes sense when you apply 2 VERY different rules to 2 VERY different populations. That is the lynchpin you have consistently avoided to address.

And just for the record: I AM IN FAVOR OF 1 FISH.

HOWEVER: I accept that IF I believe the math for A, then I accept it for B. So I ACCEPT either option will work IF APPLIED EQUALLY ACROSS THE POPULATION.

Look, either way, some groups are going to get hit harder than others. It sucks, but that's the way it is. I have ZERO sympathy for the "My job is going away" argument. A few years ago, my industry went mostly to india. I saw the writing on the wall and adapted. Was I happy? no. But I adapted. If charter guys don't see that they are in for a tough haul and make changes them they will not survive. period. Does it suck? sure. Would I be happy? no. Your position IS no different than mine WAS. Did I cause outsourcing? nope. Did the gov't help me? nope.
Was i PISSED? you better believe it. But you adapt. I hope you can do the same.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JFigliuolo

Please go back and either READ or RE-READ my post and tell me you still believe that the math makes sense when you apply 2 VERY different rules to 2 VERY different populations. That is the lynchpin you have consistently avoided to address.

And just for the record: I AM IN FAVOR OF 1 FISH.

HOWEVER: I accept that IF I believe the math for A, then I accept it for B. So I ACCEPT either option will work IF APPLIED EQUALLY ACROSS THE POPULATION.

Look, either way, some groups are going to get hit harder than others. It sucks, but that's the way it is. I have ZERO sympathy for the "My job is going away" argument. A few years ago, my industry went mostly to india. I saw the writing on the wall and adapted. Was I happy? no. But I adapted. If charter guys don't see that they are in for a tough haul and make changes them they will not survive. period. Does it suck? sure. Would I be happy? no. Your position IS no different than mine WAS. Did I cause outsourcing? nope. Did the gov't help me? nope.
Was i PISSED? you better believe it. But you adapt. I hope you can do the same.

Of course it works .
2@33 for charters and 1@ 28 for recs will absolutely reduce overall mortality by at least 25%.over last year . Most here I believe feel it's not enough.
We differ on your last statement . It's not about me BTW.
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[JFigliuolo]

Originally Posted by buckman

Of course it works .
2@33 for charters and 1@ 28 for recs will absolutely reduce overall mortality by at least 25%.over last year .
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please explain to me how this will work given the different catch percentages between the two groups. An example would be great. How does "of course it works" address the following issues:

A. Charters (as a population) catch MORE/BIGGER fish per capita. (otherwise they would quickly be out of business).

B. NON-charters (as a population) catch smaller/less fish per capita.

You are giving group A the choice that will in aggregate kill more fish FOR THAT GROUP.
You are giving group B the choice that in aggregate will kill more fish FOR THAT GROUP.

explain to me how this will hit the 25% target?

Here's an EXTREME example to prove my point:
Group A - no one catches fish > 30 No one catches 2 fish"
Group B - No one catches fish < 33"

1. LIMIT coast wide 1@28. group one goes unpahsed. group 2 takes a hit. NET RESULTS -REDUCTION in KILL
2. LIMIT coast wide 2@33 group 1 gets screwed. Group2 is unphased - NET RESULT - REDUCTION in KILL
3. Limit for group 1 1@28, group 2 2@33 .... BOTH GROUPS ARE UNAFFECTED NO REDUCTION IN KILL.

Now that is an extreme example to prove a point. But it in UNDENIABLE that the 2 different limits you ask for will have LESS affect than either limit enforced across the entire population. There is currently NO science that has been presented that quantifies what that difference is. If you have it, I'd LOVE to see it.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

Even in a democracy sometimes the majority does not get to drive the minority out of business over pettiness .
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Especially when the elected officials ignore what the will of the people is and do what the lobbyists are telling them to do.
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[afterhours]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Especially when the elected officials ignore what the will of the people is and do what the lobbyists are telling them to do.
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like x 1000.

[afterhours]

I'm starting to think that THOSE who vehemently oppose 1 @ 28" may more concerned about the bass they won't be able to keep and sell than sending joe sport home with one more 28" fish.....am I wrong thinking like this?

[MAKAI]

I can understand your angst. I've been a commercial electrician for almost 35 years. There's been good times and bad times for the industry over that stretch, due to factors out of our control.
When it's slow it sure sucks, the dog would eat better than me.
But that's when you either put on the big boy pants and buckle up and do whatever it takes to get by or go on the dole.
Going on the dole ain't in this punk from Southies blood. Kinda wish it was. I know enough people on it, every day is Sunday.
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