American Sniper?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I was merely stating why some people have a negative reaction to the movie, I didn't state that I agreed with them. You're just programmed to assume the worst.

I really couldn't care less what he thought of Iraqis as long as it didn't influence his behavior negatively which I don't believe it did. His service to the country was impressive and his death tragic.

I read the book and saw the movie, and for anyone to play the racism card is staggering, proof that these people have such a deep hatred for the values that this country is based on, they cannot help but besmirch a guy like this. That's deep, crazy, deranged hate.

How would anyone know how he felt about Iraqis in general? He said in the book, several times, that he was deeply hurt when innocent citizens were hurt by the enemy, which he calls savages. Back in 1945, I don't think liberals cried racism when soldiers referred to the enemy as krauts or japs. Very interesting what happened to the left since then. Any thoughts?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's deep, crazy, deranged hate.

I think it's more opportunism than hate. What's wrong is that they're trying to define his character by a few quotes of suspect context and not looking at the whole.

I think a more interesting topic is what Kyle would have thought of this movie. He spoke in the past of how feel good war movies didn't represent the realities of war. Did Eastwood really just nail the perfect compromise? Haven't seen it so I can't say.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I think it's more opportunism than hate. What's wrong is that they're trying to define his character by a few quotes of suspect context and not looking at the whole.

I think a more interesting topic is what Kyle would have thought of this movie. He spoke in the past of how feel good war movies didn't represent the realities of war. Did Eastwood really just nail the perfect compromise? Haven't seen it so I can't say.

Very fair points. Kyle knew they were making the movie, they completed the first draft of the script before he died.

I'll disagree on the hate. The reason they demonize a hero with opportunistic lies, is that they hate what he stands for. Deep, deep hatred, imho
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[iamskippy]

Just finished watching it. Being a war / millitary movie guy i enjoyed the perspective in which it was told.

To say it was the best war movie of all time i would not, but i would put it up there in my top 3.

I am sure i will be watching it again.
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[Jim in CT]

Morning joe had an NBC foreign correspondent on the show, who described kyle as a "racist" who "went on killing sprees." In other words, Kyle's actions are morally indistinguishable from what Adam Lanza did in newtown, ct.

Chris Kyle's kids are growing up without a dad, and they are enduring that because he was murdered while volunteering his time to help out a troubled vet. His kids will see these remarks one day. I can't get my arms around where the hate comes from. Chris kyle is gone, he's not running for president against Hilary...why do these people need to attack him. How can anyone capable of saying anything that stupid, be a newsman at NBC?
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[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Morning joe had an NBC foreign correspondent on the show, who described kyle as a "racist" who "went on killing sprees." In other words, Kyle's actions are morally indistinguishable from what Adam Lanza did in newtown, ct.

Chris Kyle's kids are growing up without a dad, and they are enduring that because he was murdered while volunteering his time to help out a troubled vet. His kids will see these remarks one day. I can't get my arms around where the hate comes from. Chris kyle is gone, he's not running for president against Hilary...why do these people need to attack him. How can anyone capable of saying anything that stupid, be a newsman at NBC?
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That is a fair opinion. And it sucks for his family.
The flip side of course, is that if he did the stuff claimed, both over there, and the dubious accounts on domestic soil, does he deserve to be put as high on a pedestal w/o consequence because he is dead?

It is a tragic story ultimately, the way he was killed, with a young family left behind. Doesn't mean we should white wash it either....

I'm sure it is a good film, and I'll watch it when it is released for home viewing, even as a raving liberal, you can still appreciate it.

[DZ]

What Kyle did was authorized by strict Rules of Engagement, nothing indiscriminate as far as I can tell. You want to see the horror of indiscriminate sniper targeting research sniper alley in Sarajevo.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

The flip side of course, is that if he did the stuff claimed, both over there, and the dubious accounts on domestic soil, does he deserve to be put as high on a pedestal w/o consequence because he is dead?

I'm sure many of our most valuable troop have done some less than desirable things at times. Kyle does appear to have lied about some things at home but who knows if it was just his character or perhaps the time in combat had an influence.

In the end his story is just a vehicle for a movie. It's really less about Kyle and more about the bigger message.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

That is a fair opinion. And it sucks for his family.
The flip side of course, is that if he did the stuff claimed, both over there, and the dubious accounts on domestic soil, does he deserve to be put as high on a pedestal w/o consequence because he is dead?

It is a tragic story ultimately, the way he was killed, with a young family left behind. Doesn't mean we should white wash it either....

I'm sure it is a good film, and I'll watch it when it is released for home viewing, even as a raving liberal, you can still appreciate it.

RIROCKHOUND -

Can you explain, by what logic, would you refer to his military record as a "killing spree", when there have been exactly zero charges brought against him for what he did? This is a news reporter for NBC network who said that. It's disgusting. If someone referred to Auie Murphy that way in the 1940's, they would have been mercilessly attacked by the entire nation for making that suggestion. We've come a long way...

"does he deserve to be put as high on a pedestal w/o consequence because he is dead? "

He chose to write a book, so it's fair to discuss these things. And no, I don't think we should necessarily halt criticism of someone after they are dead. But I do think that there shoud be some basis for the criticism. As for the "killing spree" reference, Kyle was never charged with anything, so that pretty much puts that to rest. As to charges of racism? One of Kyle's pallbearers was black. I'm not sure what evidence there is that he was racist, other than referring to the enemy (not all Iraquis, but the enemy) as "savages", which is hardly racist. Kyle routinely put his life at risk to help Iraqis that were allied with us, so I don't see how you can say he was racist against them, either. In all wars, out troops come up with derogatory nicknames for the enemy. Are we shunning that now, since it's not politically correct? Are we supposed to call the enemy "those fine fellows with whom we seem to have a slight disagreement"? That's not real life...

"Doesn't mean we should white wash it either"

I agree. But whitewash WHAT? Maybe he lied about the incident with Ventura (it's being appealed). What else has he done? Is the left reacting to stuff that wasn't in the book? I read the book twice. OK, the guy got in a few bar fights (unbelievably common in the military, I discouraged it among my kids, but had zero success, I simply could not stop it).

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm sure many of our most valuable troop have done some less than desirable things at times. Kyle does appear to have lied about some things at home but who knows if it was just his character or perhaps the time in combat had an influence.

In the end his story is just a vehicle for a movie. It's really less about Kyle and more about the bigger message.

"Kyle does appear to have lied about some things at home"

Like what? Anything besides the Ventura thing?

"It's really less about Kyle and more about the bigger message"

First, I think you're wrong that it's not largely about Kyle's specific story. Second, even if yo a re correct, that's even less reason for people to attack him for his actions.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Like what? Anything besides the Ventura thing?

He talked about killing someone who tried to carjack him at a gas station which has been investigated with no evidence. He also claimed that he and another guy sneaked into NO after Katrina and were shooting looters from the roof of the superdome which was denied by the military officer running security. They just seem like silly boasts.

First, I think you're wrong that it's not largely about Kyle's specific story. Second, even if yo a re correct, that's even less reason for people to attack him for his actions.

I said his story was a vehicle for the movie. Yes, it's about him but from what I've seen the message is more human than about hero worship.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

He talked about killing someone who tried to carjack him at a gas station which has been investigated with no evidence. He also claimed that he and another guy sneaked into NO after Katrina and were shooting looters from the roof of the superdome which was denied by the military officer running security. They just seem like silly boasts.


I said his story was a vehicle for the movie. Yes, it's about him but from what I've seen the message is more human than about hero worship.

"They just seem like silly boasts"

They sure do, don't they...but that doesn't explain the comments I'm seeing. If someone wants to say he was dishonestly boastful, they might have a point. That's not what I hear the liberal elite saying, although it's not fair for me to hold you accountable for what Howard Dean and Bill Maher say, either.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

RIROCKHOUND -

Can you explain, by what logic, would you refer to his military record as a "killing spree", when there have been exactly zero charges brought against him for what he did? This is a news reporter for NBC network who said that. It's disgusting. If someone referred to Auie Murphy that way in the 1940's, they would have been mercilessly attacked by the entire nation for making that suggestion. We've come a long way...

"does he deserve to be put as high on a pedestal w/o consequence because he is dead? "

He chose to write a book, so it's fair to discuss these things. And no, I don't think we should necessarily halt criticism of someone after they are dead. But I do think that there shoud be some basis for the criticism. As for the "killing spree" reference, Kyle was never charged with anything, so that pretty much puts that to rest. As to charges of racism? One of Kyle's pallbearers was black. I'm not sure what evidence there is that he was racist, other than referring to the enemy (not all Iraquis, but the enemy) as "savages", which is hardly racist. Kyle routinely put his life at risk to help Iraqis that were allied with us, so I don't see how you can say he was racist against them, either. In all wars, out troops come up with derogatory nicknames for the enemy. Are we shunning that now, since it's not politically correct? Are we supposed to call the enemy "those fine fellows with whom we seem to have a slight disagreement"? That's not real life...

"Doesn't mean we should white wash it either"

I agree. But whitewash WHAT? Maybe he lied about the incident with Ventura (it's being appealed). What else has he done? Is the left reacting to stuff that wasn't in the book? I read the book twice. OK, the guy got in a few bar fights (unbelievably common in the military, I discouraged it among my kids, but had zero success, I simply could not stop it).

I am agreeing that you have a fair opinion, and what the host was saying was not appropriate. But then again I'm a liberal, so we all think exactly what MSNBC tells us to think....

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

They sure do, don't they...but that doesn't explain the comments I'm seeing. If someone wants to say he was dishonestly boastful, they might have a point. That's not what I hear the liberal elite saying, although it's not fair for me to hold you accountable for what Howard Dean and Bill Maher say, either.

You can't hold me accountable because I don't agree with what they said.

[Moron_Saxatilis]

Was disappointing. Too much cliche crap, military inaccuracies. I'm a vet so I tend to nit-pick. Eastwood is over-rated. He has done some good films and a lot of sub par. "Flags of Our Father's"- Horrible