Obama, again with the cheap insults

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

Cute ... And you lumped in the Christian's too . Very Obama like ����
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"showing Muslims to be both tolerant and intolerant, as one could do for Christianity just as easily"

Yep, naturally he has to throw in some moral relativism. Because Christians, in the world today, are blowing people up, stoning women, and slaughtering fellow Christians by the thousands, gassing each other, etc. Christians also want to eradicate the Jews, etc...

Can't make this up. I dare you to try.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Yep, naturally he has to throw in some moral relativism. Because Christians, in the world today, are blowing people up, stoning women, and slaughtering fellow Christians by the thousands, gassing each other, etc. Christians also want to eradicate the Jews, etc...

Can't make this up. I dare you to try.

The context for the discussion was about tolerance, not violence. When you look a the religions over time I don't think any one can claim the violence title either.

Violence tends to also be relative to politics.

You should read Karen Armstrong's "Fields of Blood."

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

The context for the discussion was about tolerance, not violence. When you look a the religions over time I don't think any one can claim the violence title either.

Violence tends to also be relative to politics.

You should read Karen Armstrong's "Fields of Blood."

"The context for the discussion was about tolerance, not violence"

Doesn't systemic violence against a targeted group, imply a lack of tolerance towards that group?

Spence, most Muslim nations are absolutely barbaric in their treatment of women, homosexuals, Jews, Christians, and drug addicts. Those are all groups that liberals sure claim to care a lof about (except Christians, of course, but we'll save that for later).


"When you look a the religions over time I don't think any one can claim the violence title either"

When you look at the last 100 years, I think there is a very, very clear winner in the "religious violence reality show challenge".

Do you really deny that? Honestly?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"The context for the discussion was about tolerance, not violence"

Doesn't systemic violence against a targeted group, imply a lack of tolerance towards that group?

That must be like when my Old Man would say "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" just before I got spanked.....

Then again I'm pretty sure I got that ass whooping because he wasn't going to tolerate the way I was behaving

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

When you look at the last 100 years, I think there is a very, very clear winner in the "religious violence reality show challenge".

Do you really deny that? Honestly?

Is the root of the violence religion or politics? That's the question you should be asking.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Is the root of the violence religion or politics? That's the question you should be asking.

Boy, that's a real head-scratcher. Hmmm, let's see. Let me answer that question by asking you a quaetion. When the jihadists are about to slaughter their victims, or about to detonate a suicide vest, what do they cry out?

(1) Allahu Akhbar (God is great), or
(2) <insert name of any politician> is great?

Which is it?

Spence, just for laughs...if they aren't motivated by religion, but rather by politics, please tell us exactly which political ideology they are fighting for?

A terrorist is identified by th ecause he is killing for. Timothy McVeigh was Irish, that doesn't mean he was in the IRA. He was a political terrorist, an anti-government terrorist.

The jihadists are religious terrorists. That's the cause they are fighting for. If I am wrong, by all means, please tell me what they are fighting for? They want a world-wide secular parliamentary system? Are they all national socialists? No, I got it, they are all libertarians, they want everyone to be able to do whatever they want with no one else telling them what to do. That's it, isn't it?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

That must be like when my Old Man would say "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" just before I got spanked.....

Then again I'm pretty sure I got that ass whooping because he wasn't going to tolerate the way I was behaving

True.

But I got spanked, and every time I got spanked, I absolutely had it coming. You spank your kid to teah them a lesson. Tough love is still love. Not the same as blowing him up because he doesn't want to wear his beard the way you command, or because he is willing to let his wife drive a car and learn to read.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Is the root of the violence religion or politics? That's the question you should be asking.

That's the question you would ask if you don't want it to be about religion . Funny how a lot of the stuff the GOP does in politics,is blamed on religion
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

That's the question you would ask if you don't want it to be about religion .
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Ok, that makes a lot of sense

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Is the root of the violence religion or politics? That's the question you should be asking.

the root of the violence is culture.... cultivated, shaped and defined by both religion and politics

http://www.politico.eu/article/molen...entrification/

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by scottw

the root of the violence is culture.... cultivated, shaped and defined by both religion and politics

http://www.politico.eu/article/molen...entrification/

I thought the root was all the bombs we drop on them and the random drone strikes. Wouldn't you want to kill someone if your house was bombed ? It's a vicious cycle
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I thought the root was all the bombs we drop on them and the random drone strikes. Wouldn't you want to kill someone if your house was bombed ? It's a vicious cycle
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Bernie says it's climate change
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Is the root of the violence religion or politics? That's the question you should be asking.

In the case of so-called radical Islam, the answer is both. Fundamental Islam is both religion and government. There is no separation between those "roots" in jihadism.

That's why I have more confidence that Latino immigrants and their progeny could embrace the foundational American governmental system. The vast majority of them who are religious are Christian. There is a basis for a theological separation of church and state in the foundation of Christianity. Christ said to render unto Caesar (the state) what is "Caesar's and render unto God which is God's. It was exactly that basis which was one of the driving forces of the American Revolution and the constitutional founding of this country. It was that Judeo-Christian ethic which allowed secular and religious freedom to exist together under the over-arching principal of individual freedom.

That's why I have much less, if any, confidence that truly Muslim immigrants and their progeny who remain truly Muslim could embrace our constitutional principals of government. The basis, the foundation, the fundamental principle of Islam is the joining of politics and religion. For a true Muslim they are one and the same, and that juncture is not compatible with our foundational principles.

There is the hope that Islam will be reformed, and that might have the best chance of happening in our multi-cultural society with all of its supposedly superior benefits in the quality of life and freedom of choice. We hope that Islam can be seduced into reformation. The problem is that if you remove the joining of politics and religion from Islam, it is no longer Islam. The founder of Islam, Mohammed, specifically made religion and state the same entity. If you remove either from Islam, it is no longer the same thing.

Obviously, if Islam were to be compatible with our constitutional system and could be made so by removing either religion or politics from it, it would have to be the politics. But then what would be left? If the statist aspect is removed from Islam, it becomes a gutted shadow of what made it "great" and what was the driving force and principle in its foundation and growth. And its guiding rules embodied in the Quran and the Hadith would have to be so greatly revised as to become a different entity--maybe some offshoot or sect of its original ties to Judaism or the twelve tribes. I doubt that such a contradictory reformation can happen.

I think that so long as Muslims remain a small, relatively powerless group in the broad national sense, they can be a productive, cooperative, and "very nice" people with sporadic or unreported incidences of honor killings or other various gruesome doings that are part of their culture. When they become a majority the good, "nice", things begin to fall apart.

And, so long as Islam where it is the ruling power, is at war with the West, especially the great Satan America, there is that emotional, spiritual attachment to it and its war in the hearts and souls of faithful Muslims, even here in the U.S. And therein lies the potential, the probability, that young idealistic, truly Muslim, minds will be "radicalized."

And Islam's greatest friend here, ironically, is secular progressivism. It is the progressive/socialist hope that religion of all sorts will become hypocritical shadows of "faith" and fade away by force of strictly humanistic values of fairness, equality, and elimination of class disparities. It sees success in the marginalization of and perceived irrelevance of Christianity (so can let it wither and be destroyed in Muslim countries without protesting or doing much to help, and chastising Christians here reminding them of their past sins). And it sees the necessity of helping Muslim dissidents, refugees, and "moderates" in the hope that they too will weaken the fundamentals of their faith so that Islam is slowly "reformed"--and fades away.

There is also an indirect, "relative," tie between the progressives and the Muslims. Both share the principle of the "benevolent" all-powerful State. And both are incompatible with our founding constitutional structure. And both, at their true fundamental core, are (or can be re Islam) the enemy within that corrupts and destroys the character and foundation of this country. On the other hand, both would like to see the other disappear. But, in the meantime, each can be a tool of the other.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

Bernie says it's climate change
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He does and it's a very good argument.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

He does and it's a very good argument.
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How was Osama Bin Laden negatively impacted by climate change? Or the Ft Hood shooter? Or the mastermind of the Paris attacks, who went to a prestigious high school?

[Nebe]

The issues in Syria Jim. The issues in Syria.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The issues in Syria Jim. The issues in Syria.
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if only that were true

[Nebe]

That's what he said during the debate.
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[Nebe]

Climate change leads to crop failure leads to hunger leads to uprising leads to terrorism
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[Doover]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Climate change leads to crop failure leads to hunger leads to uprising leads to terrorism
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Ah, the hysterical ravings of the edumacated Democrap mind.

Classic!

[Fly Rod]

Nebe....now I know Y Jessi James robbed banks, the dust bowl of the thirties that reached to DC...yup it was climate change that made him do it or was it the locust......LOL....

[buckman]

[QUOTE=Nebe;1086862]Climate change leads to crop failure leads to hunger leads to uprising leads to terrorism
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Seems reasonable 😜
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[Nebe]

Google it.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Climate change leads to crop failure leads to hunger leads to uprising leads to terrorism
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Bernie should have explained that to Obama or Bush long ago. They could have suppressed uprising and terrorism simply by sending boatloads of grains to make up for crop failures.

But wait . . . don't the folks who breed terrorism live in the lands that produce the oil that is used to create climate change. Dang . . . they could stop pumping oil; which would prevent climate change; which would save their crops; which would remove the need for uprising and terrorism . . .

[Nebe]

Is it the only reason? No.. But it is has a lot to do with it.
I can understand that you guys can't grasp complex issues.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Is it the only reason? No.. But it is has a lot to do with it.
I can understand that you guys can't grasp complex issues.
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Oh crap . . . there are other reasons too? Does sound rather complex . . . and hopeless . . . it's tough enough to prevent climate change . . . But other reasons too . . . ahh man that's too much for simple mortals to fix. Gotta give Obama and Hillary some slack on that one. Maybe even Bush.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

. . . they could stop pumping oil; which would prevent climate change; . . .

oh my........

[scottw]

hey Eben, you know that Assad is a Socialist...right?....maybe you should consider Syria...I hear there's plenty of room opening up and they have tons of raw material for your glass blowing...

[Fly Rod]

NEBE U may B right....could B too complex for me....Y R they not rioting in Northern Kentucky, there is hunger,there is no uprising, no terrorism,your president has taken away their livelihood, most coal mines R closed..... people in them towns R....

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

NEBE U may B right....could B too complex for me....Y R they not rioting in Northern Kentucky, there is hunger,there is no uprising, no terrorism,your president has taken away their livelihood, most coal mines R closed..... people in them towns R....

Kentucky is the third largest coal producer in the USA just behind West Virginia. Overall US coal production is still around all-time high levels.