Black lives matter

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I get what he's saying, and I agree, my point was that most people don't really care about gang violence unless they're personally impacted. A lot of people do spend time trying to focus on the violence, but the reality is many don't want to hear about root cause drivers that don't fit their agenda.

Why do we incarcerate so many people and especially so many black men? It's not a discussion people want to have, nor is it a trick question.

"Why do we incarcerate so many people "

Because they break serious laws.

"and especially so many black men"

because black culture, more so than any other culture in our country at thi stime, embraces and celebrates a lifestyle that is a common path to prison.

There is a myth out there, and it's a myth, that prisons are full of otherwise law-abiding people who like to smoke a joint on the weekends. Almost nobody in prison is there for simple posession, and those that are, many were arrested for dealing but plead down to posession.

"It's not a discussion people want to have"

More accurately, it's not a discussion liberals want to have, because if they had the intellectual courage to be honest about what's really happening (read: tell blacks that most of their problems are 100% their own fault), they would anger the black community, who vote for Democrats 95% of the time. So instead of speaking the truth, liberals tell blacks that it's not their fault, but rather someone else's fault, preferably a white guy in a Brooks Brothers suit.

Most conservatives are happy to have the conversation. Problem is, you can't speak 10 words of truth, without being called a racist on every TV station except one.

"nor is it a trick question"

No, it most certainly is not. When I retire from the actuarial game, i want to be a life coach. Every single person who comes in, gets the same exact comment from me. "If you want to know what the problem is, look in the mirror. If you want to know what the answer is, look in the bible. That'll be $250, please. Next!"

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Why do we incarcerate so many people and especially so many black men? It's not a discussion people want to have, nor is it a trick question.

Because they break the law......

Discuss amongst yourselves....

[spence]

Very deep thinking gentlemen.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Why does it have to be such a deep thought. You break the laws you pay the consequences.....it really is that simple.

you don't break the laws you get to live your life in relative freedom.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don't think race has a lot to do with it, here's why...

Black kids born into stable, loving, 2-parent households who make good decisions and do the right things, do just fine.

White kids born into poor, unstable, chaotic, single-parent households, don't usually turn out well.

It's not race. It's all those other things. And in the huge majority of cases, all those other things can be avoided by doing the right things. Stay in school, work hard, present yourself well, don't go near drugs, don't have kids until you are ready.

To be clear - I don't mean these problems happen because they are black, or genetically inferior. Like you I have seen great black kids from good environments do just fine and I have seen white kids from rough neighborhoods do awful. Having lived on both sides of the tracks I have also seen it firsthand.

Want to see good kids of all races and color? Go to a DODDS school overseas where the parents, of all races, create a better environment for their kids. We did it together, as kids, and did not need hasthags, hug rooms, and dog whistles to do it.

Originally Posted by spence

I get what he's saying, and I agree, my point was that most people don't really care about gang violence unless they're personally impacted. A lot of people do spend time trying to focus on the violence, but the reality is many don't want to hear about root cause drivers that don't fit their agenda.

Why do we incarcerate so many people and especially so many black men? It's not a discussion people want to have, nor is it a trick question.

It is a discussion that should happen, but what is the root of the problem? Parents and opportunity - and there the cycle begins. Saving 1 kid is great but it is not enough, we have to save all of them. And yes, I saw those kids growing up, I saw them when I worked in schools, and I see them doing real well in Scouts. Want to save 50% of today's underprivileged young males? Put them in Scouting. Seriously.

40 years now we have been hearing how we are saving them but it is not happening. Trillions have been spent, free/reduced lunch (yes, I was one of those kids), breakfast, dinner, medical services at school (yes, the kids need them) but we are not creating a separation between need and dependency.

Originally Posted by spence

Very deep thinking gentlemen.

There is no money to be made and power to be wielded for community action groups and politicians, that's why. It is easy to blame others for all the problems in the world, it is harder to lace up your own shoes and do it.

And seeing that you know the nuance and the rest of us are not deep thinkers, what would you do? You are a smart guy? What is your solution??

[Fly Rod]

Come on people....do UUUUU really think that the group, "Black Lives Matter," really, really care?.....do UUUUUUUU CCCCC them demostrating when it is black killing black.

Spence...please tell me where they were demonstrating for justice when 9 year old in chicago was shot dead recently and or any other black person killed by a black????

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Very deep thinking gentlemen.

Once again, instead of telling us where we are wrong (because you can't), you lob an insult and scurry off. Yawn.

This problem does not require deep thought. You don't need to be Socrates to figure out that if you drop out of high school and start making babies that you have no inclination to care for, bad things will follow for you and your kids.

No deep thought required...what is required, is a speck of intellectual honesty and genuine concern for helping these people, instead of exploiting them to get votes. That's what is needed, and what we know for sure, is that is asking way too much from your side. Your post here illustrates that perfectly, as you say it's thoughtless and shallow to say to poor people "work hard and make the right decisions, and you probably won't be poor." How the hell else do you avoid poverty, unless you are born with money or marry into it?

So instead of telling poor people that the values embraced by the Tea Party are a spectacularly effective blueprint for escaping poverty, your side paints them as racist. I guess that's what passes for deep thought nowadays.

Obama was in an historically effective position to really do something about this. As usual, he failed miserably.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I get what he's saying, and I agree, my point was that most people don't really care about gang violence unless they're personally impacted.

I suppose, not sure, that the distinction you're making is that most black people perceive white police killing blacks as a racist danger to ALL black people, so most feel personally threatened. Even though white cops killing blacks is rare compared to gangs of blacks killing blacks, the latter is localized and the motivation is not racial so not seen by most blacks as a personal threat.

On the face of it, the huge disparity in numbers alone, without getting into sociology babble, is enough to make that view silly. A reality check would see the clear and present danger of black on black crime as a far more personal threat than white cop on black. I assume that's why most black neighborhoods have an abundance of houses with iron bars on doors and windows. I don't think those bars are there to keep white cops out. Or to keep out marauding whites from the suburbs.

I don't think the propositions (a)that most black people "don't really care about [relatively large numbers of] gang violence unless they're personally impacted," or (b)that white cops killing blacks in relatively small numbers is a threat to all blacks, are inherent concepts in the minds of most black people.

Most concepts are formed by experience or are taught. If the vast, vast majority of blacks do not die at the hands of white cops, and if far more die at the hands of other blacks, experience would rationally either render the above propositions (a) and (b) as irrational, or would even reverse which was the more of a personal threat.

On the other hand, one can be taught or influenced to believe those propositions. As in the media, activists, and government (all the way to the top) attention and bias weighing in heavily on the support of one concept and a relative lack of attention to the other.


A lot of people do spend time trying to focus on the violence, but the reality is many don't want to hear about root cause drivers that don't fit their agenda.

If that's so, my opinion is that it would be true of all "sides." I certainly don't see a lack of willing to discuss that stuff on this forum. Some of us have been doing that. From our perspective. Maybe you can enlighten us about yours.

Why do we incarcerate so many people and especially so many black men? It's not a discussion people want to have, nor is it a trick question.

Tell us. Discuss it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

and I see them doing real well in Scouts. Want to save 50% of today's underprivileged young males? Put them in Scouting. Seriously.

That's a very wise and astute observation, and I bet The Dad Fisherman agrees. My oldest is just getting involved in scouting, and it emphasizes EVERYTHIING that's needed to stay out of trouble. My next-door-neighbor has high schoolers who are involved in boy scouts, and when they have fellow scouts over, I am really impressed with what I see. No underwear sticking out of the top of their pants, no foul language. They are polite to my wife and I, they are happy to play with my little kids.

I would say the same thing about a high quality martial arts school. These are 2 activities that will instill a kid with a blueprint that will serve them well, for their entire lives.

[The Dad Fisherman]

The Scout Law isn't just some words to memorize for a sign off......it's a Blue Print.

I always tell my scouts when I do a scout masters conference with them that if they have a choice to make......bounce it against the points of the Scout Law......if their decision doesn't violate any of the points.....it's probably a good one.
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[Nebe]

What is it exactly that the black lives matter people want anyway?
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[justplugit]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The Scout Law isn't just some words to memorize for a sign off......it's a Blue Print.

I always tell my scouts when I do a scout masters conference with them that if they have a choice to make......bounce it against the points of the Scout Law......if their decision doesn't violate any of the points.....it's probably a good one.
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The Scouts Law worth repeating and always timely in life.

A Scout is:
Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind
Obedient
Cheerful
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
Reverent.

Go ahead, tell me what's wrong with that.

Still after 70 years I remember The Boy Scouts Motto:
On my honor I will do my best do my duty to God and my Country.

What not PC enough ?? pffft

[FishermanTim]

Scouting develops personal responsibility in the youth and allows them to learn and grow in a nurturing environment.

Currently most inner city youth have their responsibilities set by their absent parents, TV and the web. In other words, they have no structure or direction and follow whatever charlatans get their attention.

I agree with the analogy regarding black kids in good families compared to white kids in bad families.

When you add peer pressure (from other kids making bad choices)to the basic problems most kids are faced with, you have the problem compounded.

When families lose track of what really is important they end up having to pick up the pieces after the damage has been done.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's a very wise and astute observation, and I bet The Dad Fisherman agrees.

I have said for years if you give us 100 kids, 98 will come out better for it.I remember things to this day I learned as the longest tenured Tenderfoot in scouting.

The other great thing about scouting (and other positive organizations) is that these kids will get a better peer group in school and out of school. Plus they may be able to defeat the Zombie Apocalypse.

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The Scout Law isn't just some words to memorize for a sign off......it's a Blue Print.

I always tell my scouts when I do a scout masters conference with them that if they have a choice to make......bounce it against the points of the Scout Law......if their decision doesn't violate any of the points.....it's probably a good one.
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Go ahead, tell me what's wrong with that.

Still after 70 years I remember The Boy Scouts Motto:
On my honor I will do my best do my duty to God and my Country.

What not PC enough ?? pffft

You are in your 80s? Hahaha j/k

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The Scout Law isn't just some words to memorize for a sign off......it's a Blue Print.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Exactly correct. This is an organization whose purpose for existance, is to make childhood a little more wholesome and fun, and to give kids the "blue print" they need to be caring, generous, productive, successful, happy adults. And how does the left treat the scouts? Does it thank the scouts for all they good they do? Hell, no! Again, as usual, the left ignores what the scouts actually stand for, and paint them as hate-mongering bigots. Because if more people embraced the values instilled by the scouts, fewer people would be miserable and dependent, and therefore, fewer people would vote Democrat. The left has its own blue priunt for dealing with such groups - paint them as hatemongers.

[Jackbass]

Sounds like our urban gangs are turning into Mexican Cartels.

Just #^&#^&#^&#^&ing disgusting.
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[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnR

You are in your 80s? Hahaha j/k

3 and 1/2 years away until 80, John, no joke, I was a Cub Scout at age 7.

So kind of you to remind me.

Looks like you may be slipping yourself, you forgot to post
that freeeking dementia time clock already. LOL

[justplugit]

BTW John, another Boy Scout rule for you to think about
as YOU grow older, "Be Prepared".

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

You are in your 80s? Hahaha j/k

When I was a kid, I did cub scouts up until Weblos. For some reason, all my friends declined to continue in Boy Scouts.

When I was in elemantary school, we might have had 2 or 3 classrooms for each grade. And I bet each classroom, within each grade, had a den or pack or whatever the smaller unit was. But there were always a ton of kids at school in the uniform, because they'd go to one family's house right from school for the meeting.

In the town where I live now, which is a great town for kids to grow up in, it's FAR less popular. But fortunately it is still around. I hope all 3 of my boys love it.

As I get deeper and deeper into parenting, i am less and less interested in spending all my time getting them involved in traditional sports. If any of my kids wants to play travel baseball 6 days a week, i will support that, but I'm not bringing it up or suggesting it. I'd rather expose them to things that will provide lifelong benefits (scouting, karate), or at least expose them to sports (like tennis) that they can do forever.

John and TDF, I think you really nailed it by bringing up scouting. No one wants to hear that there is an almost sure-fired solution, but that solution involves discipline and work. Liberalism is based more on the philosophy of "if it feels good, do it, and don't expect me to face the consequences".

I wonder how many families that are heavily involved in scouting, are truly dysfunctional. Not nearly as much dysfunctionality as the average family, I am certain of that.

[Rockport24]

The other key thing about scouting is that it probably provides positive role models for these kids. Unfortunately the culture in a lot of these inner cities values athletes or rappers, that is the only way "out" to a lot of these kids and that's sad because its nearly impossible to make it in either one of those fields.
There is a lot of good work going on in these areas, but obviously not enough. For all the resources Obama wants to put into more free housing and more EBT cards and other handouts, why not invest in more programs (like scouting) or other boys and girls club types things that keeps these kids off the streets? why don't more of these black lives matter people put their energy towards things like that instead of showing their kids that police are to blame for all of their problems.

[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

why don't more of these black lives matter people put their energy towards things like that instead of showing their kids that police are to blame for all of their problems.

Because we as a society have failed. They have been told it is someone elses fault, there is no accountability anymore, especially by the BLM clowns. The" poor little kid was just turning his life around" Criminals are the victims, forced into that life. That is liberal logic right there.

[Nebe]

What if I told you that black anger has been fueled by the music industry who's ceo's have heavily invested in privately owned prisons ?

More anger... More crime... More profits !

http://raprehab.com/facts-about-hip-...on-for-profit/


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[basswipe]

HANDS UP!!!

Its all BS,the movement should be called Black Lies Matter.Their only agenda is to promote hatred among the black community towards whites and in particular white police officers.To the point that this group has called for killings of police and has success in this calling.

Domestic terrorist org as far as I'm concerned.

Have at it boys.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by basswipe

HANDS UP!!!

Its all BS,the movement should be called Black Lies Matter.Their only agenda is to promote hatred among the black community towards whites and in particular white police officers.To the point that this group has called for killings of police and has success in this calling. Which will send more blacks to prison, since in recent times Marajuana laws have been relaxed.

Domestic terrorist org as far as I'm concerned.

Have at it boys.

I fixed it for you.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

John and TDF, I think you really nailed it by bringing up scouting. No one wants to hear that there is an almost sure-fired solution, but that solution involves discipline and work. Liberalism is based more on the philosophy of "if it feels good, do it, and don't expect me to face the consequences".

I wonder how many families that are heavily involved in scouting, are truly dysfunctional. Not nearly as much dysfunctionality as the average family, I am certain of that.

A lot of it is about being good role models to kids - particularly the bigger kids to the younger kids, and showing the kids how a little training and doing can be great tools in life. This is particularly beneficial to the kids with single / divorced parents. I was one of those kids and that and (believe it or not) a good environment with other good kids helped me a lot.

Originally Posted by justplugit

BTW John, another Boy Scout rule for you to think about
as YOU grow older, "Be Prepared".

Originally Posted by justplugit

3 and 1/2 years away until 80, John, no joke, I was a Cub Scout at age 7.

See - I thought you were just failing a little at math but rounding up (slightly) is acceptable

Originally Posted by Nebe

What if I told you that black anger has been fueled by the music industry who's ceo's have heavily invested in privately owned prisons ?

More anger... More crime... More profits !

Hip Hop and the music industry, bastions of right wingers.

[Fly Rod]

Fishing has come to an end here and most have pulled their boats....small whale spotted just of the shore feeding causing traffic jam on the roadway....lot of whales reported on the northwest corner of the bank.....

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I fixed it for you.

Which will send more blacks to prison, since in recent times Marajuana laws have been relaxed.

See......you get it man.

Though you did spell marijuana wrong.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by basswipe

See......you get it man.

Though you did spell marijuana wrong.

Sheeeeeet man. No weed for me!
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