So, how about our brilliant middle eastern vetting process

[Jim in CT]

So, Obama has been doing quite a bit of bragging lately about our vetting process for Middle Eastern folks who want to come here. Obama had said the vetting is so effective, that there is no valid reason to worry about refugees coming here.

Well, the female CA shooter went through that process, or a similar process, right? Does our idiot-in-chief want to claim that there's still no reason to be concerned about Muslim refugees from Syria?

He says ISIS is the JV, they grow. He says they are contained, they kill 100 in Paris. He says the vetting process will keep us safe, 14 dead people in California expose that lie. Which is likely why, amazingly, the White House is silent when it's declared this is the worst act of Islamic terror on our soil since 9/11. That, or he had a tee time somewhere or a private concert with Beyoncé to get to.

Everything this guy touches, turns to vomit. It's incredible.

[buckman]

It is uncanny, that whenever he opens his mouth and makes a statement , within days the exact opposite happens and proves him entirely out of touch with reality
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Well, the female CA shooter went through that process, or a similar process, right? Does our idiot-in-chief want to claim that there's still no reason to be concerned about Muslim refugees from Syria?

Process is quite different from what I've read. The K-1 visa is actually supposed to be pretty hard to get through. Even have to provide police records from every place you've lived since age 16. You also have no idea if she was radicalized before she came, you're just making assumptions at this point.

I'd be a lot more concerned over US passport holders and European passport holders that can just walk in if they're not being watched.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

It is uncanny, that whenever he opens his mouth and makes a statement , within days the exact opposite happens and proves him entirely out of touch with reality
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Exactly. Next time he says the terrorists are on the run, I will immediately go hide in an underground bunker until it's safe to ascend.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Process is quite different from what I've read. The K-1 visa is actually supposed to be pretty hard to get through. Even have to provide police records from every place you've lived since age 16. You also have no idea if she was radicalized before she came, you're just making assumptions at this point.

I'd be a lot more concerned over US passport holders and European passport holders that can just walk in if they're not being watched.

You think you're proving YOUR point? You are correct, the vetting process cannot stop someone from coming over and getting radicalized the next day. That's not an endorsement of the vetting, it's further proof that the vetting doesn't keep us safe. So why bother? Your point is further evidence that this religion may not be compatible with the civilized world.

We have freedom of religion. No one believes that the founding fathers meant that to provide a safe haven for Aztecs to come in and sacrifice children to the gods. It's not a suicide pact.

What would it take to admit your side is wrong on this? How many bullet-riddled, charred bodies? Or just one, if it's someone you happen to care about?

[spence]

Jim, how much time have you spent learning about either process?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, how much time have you spent learning about either process?

I was responding to what you said. You said the vetting cannot stop someone from getting in who isn't already in trouble, but who becomes radicalized the next day. So the vetting process has big holes, right?

I know the vetting process, hailed by Obama just a few days ago, came up a wee bit short for 14 families in California, and that your hero has precisely nothing to say about it. Not sure I need to know more.

[spence]

So I guess the answer is zero. Well, at least you're consistently informed.

[Fly Rod]

[QUOTE=spence;1087924]Process is quite different from what I've read. The K-1 visa is actually supposed to be pretty hard to get through. Even have to provide police records from every place you've lived since age 16. You also have no idea if she was radicalized before she came, you're just making assumptions at this point.

Spence apparently it is not hard to get.....she listed a home on the k-1 of a residence that never existed......... the K-1 visa is only good for 6 months, never kept track of her but yet she got a green card....this is not an assumption....FACT

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So I guess the answer is zero. Well, at least you're consistently informed.

I learned from what you posted. If that's the equivalent of "zero", and it may well be, then so be it. I also know that 14 Americans are dead, despite whatever vetting procedures we have in place. And that your hero is hiding under his desk, rater than admit that the vetting processes are a lot more flawed than he was making them out to be.

Here's what I know about the vetting process details...it's not nearly enough to provide us the security we deserve.

[Nebe]

Japan has a wonderful solution to Islam. It's simply not allowed to be practiced on Japan's soil.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

And we are supposed to better than that. Though in practice a lot (not all or even most) of followers / believers of Islam is incompatible with the how we live in the USA and our Constitution. I wish it were otherwise.

Unfortunately if you feel that all followers of Islam can and want to peacefully integrate into our system and our laws and our governing, you are mistaken. This is not the fault of everyday Americans or our system of Government. No objective minded thinking person can possibly believe that the major part of the problem is with us, and not the followers of Islam.

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Japan has a wonderful solution to Islam. It's simply not allowed to be practiced on Japan's soil.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That and if they legalize...I'm there!

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Unfortunately if you feel that all followers of Islam can and want to peacefully integrate into our system and our laws and our governing, you are mistaken. This is not the fault of everyday Americans or our system of Government. No objective minded thinking person can possibly believe that the major part of the problem is with us, and not the followers of Islam.

This is pretty empty rhetoric. Nobody believes all Muslims can integrate into our system of government, though I'd note that of the hundreds of thousands that have only a handful have engaged in religiously motivated criminal behavior.

Really at the heart of this issue is if the issue is about Islam or politics. I'd say more often than not it's about power and religion is used as a tool to consolidate it.

Also, what is it that the regions producing Islamic extremists have in common? Hmmm, let me think...

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

This is pretty empty rhetoric. Nobody believes all Muslims can integrate into our system of government, though I'd note that of the hundreds of thousands that have only a handful have engaged in religiously motivated criminal behavior.

The issue, simplified, is that their are immigrants (legal, illegal, radical, not radical) coming here and committing crime or worse injury and death. That is the issue. The vast, vast majority of immigrants come here and want to grow into the fabric of our land.

Now, our options are to keep them and have them assimilate into productive, lawful members of our society, not allow them to come, or to suffer an increase of reprisals against citizens here in his country.

I would have like to see them assimilate into productive, lawful members of our society. I do not realistically see how that will be done without a lot of death and turmoil. Hope is not a plan.

"Give me your poor tired huddled masses yearning to be free", not take advantage of our charity and protection, and maybe wage jihad.

Originally Posted by spence

Really at the heart of this issue is if the issue is about Islam or politics. I'd say more often than not it's about power and religion is used as a tool to consolidate it.

Also, what is it that the regions producing Islamic extremists have in common? Hmmm, let me think...

No, the heart of the issue is that we are a generally open and generally peaceful society, that (used to) want people to excel and do better than our ancestors. An improving, if imperfect, civilization. There are some that want to just kill in the name of their god.

What do they have in common? They are not in South America? or Japan?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

This is pretty empty rhetoric. Nobody believes all Muslims can integrate into our system of government, though I'd note that of the hundreds of thousands that have only a handful have engaged in religiously motivated criminal behavior.

Really at the heart of this issue is if the issue is about Islam or politics. I'd say more often than not it's about power and religion is used as a tool to consolidate it.

Also, what is it that the regions producing Islamic extremists have in common? Hmmm, let me think...

"what is it that the regions producing Islamic extremists have in common? Hmmm, let me think."

The man in the CA shooting was born here. A couple of the terrorists from France were Belgian nationals, right? Obviously most are from the Middle East, but not all. People Muslims from all countries are getting radicalized.

So tell me, what do all those countries have in common? Seems to me that the only common thread, is that they allow Islam. And quite possibly they shouldn't.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Japan has a wonderful solution to Islam. It's simply not allowed to be practiced on Japan's soil.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

And that is where many nations will end up, eventually. Bill Maher, for once, was right. That religion is the "mother load of bad ideas right now". The only question, is how many innocents will be slaughtered before we decide enough is enough.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

And we are supposed to better than that. Though in practice a lot (not all or even most) of followers / believers of Islam is incompatible with the how we live in the USA and our Constitution. I wish it were otherwise.

Unfortunately if you feel that all followers of Islam can and want to peacefully integrate into our system and our laws and our governing, you are mistaken. This is not the fault of everyday Americans or our system of Government. No objective minded thinking person can possibly believe that the major part of the problem is with us, and not the followers of Islam.

"And we are supposed to better than that"

We are better than that. Right now, at this moment, the USA is by far, the best country on Earth to be a Muslim. We are trying to welcome them. It's not working. There isn't a country on the planet where Muslim immigrants aren't causing huge problems.

They have a cancer in their midst, and either they can't or won't deal with it. I think they, the peaceful Muslims, are running out of time. More countries will follow Japan's lead, they have no choice. Our way of life is many things, but I hope it's not a suicide pact.

[Nebe]

Imagine for a moment a world with no religion. A world where morals were taught and love was encouraged over hate.

Wouldn't that be nice ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"And we are supposed to better than that"

We are better than that. Right now, at this moment, the USA is by far, the best country on Earth to be a Muslim. We are trying to welcome them. It's not working. There isn't a country on the planet where Muslim immigrants aren't causing huge problems.

Thank you for making my point

Originally Posted by Nebe

Imagine for a moment a world with no religion. A world where morals were taught and love was encouraged over hate.

Wouldn't that be nice ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

A lot of religion is benevolent and not the cause for strife. I am not very religious but I appreciate a lot of people that are - and many that are not.

BUT, for a lot of people, the STATE is the religion and is treated as such and those that oppose the State are the heretics to be squashed.

That is the beauty of this country (moreso in the past) where your freedom and your liberty was above religion and the state. Today, nossomuch

[Nebe]

I worship beer
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

I'd be a lot more concerned over US passport holders and European passport holders that can just walk in if they're not being watched.

Have to agree with you there, Spence, so I would awesome you'd be in favor
of Rubio's idea to put a temporary hold on visas from mid east countries
and send back those who have overstayed their visa's and vet those who are
left in the US legally. ?????


BTW- have one eye on thr Michigan/Iowa game , Hawkeyes looking
pretty good. Only the 4th Qtr though.
See I can still walk and chew gum at the same time.

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Imagine for a moment a world with no religion. A world where morals were taught and love was encouraged over hate.

Wouldn't that be nice ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What RRRRRRR UUUUU smoking?....pass it around.....

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

What RRRRRRR UUUUU smoking?....pass it around.....

considering we are pretty much in a holy war right now.... Consider the medication to the sickness
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Have to agree with you there, Spence, so I would awesome you'd be in favor
of Rubio's idea to put a temporary hold on visas from mid east countries
and send back those who have overstayed their visa's and vet those who are
left in the US legally. ?????

I believe the visa process is already being firmed up to some degree. There probably is a legal avenue to further vet people here under new regulations, but does the government have the resources?

Regardless it should be rational and not part of a national freak out. God help us if Trump got elected and made good on 10% of his inflammatory rhetoric...you'll see the issue explode.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

considering we are pretty much in a holy war right now....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

how is it that we are in a "holy war" if the islamic terrrorists and radicals represent only a tiny percentage of the religion of peace and, we are told, don't actually represent islam at all?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I believe the visa process is already being firmed up to some degree. There probably is a legal avenue to further vet people here under new regulations, but does the government have the resources?

Regardless it should be rational and not part of a national freak out. God help us if Trump got elected and made good on 10% of his inflammatory rhetoric...you'll see the issue explode.

"you'll see the issue explode"

Funny, I thought the issue exploded on 09/11.

Spence, it is now reported that the female shooter had attended not one, but two Islamic schools in Pakistan, that are being investigated by the Pakistanis because the schools radicalize their students. The schools are so alarming, that the Pakistanis are investigating them. That's the same Pakistan that harbored Bin Laden and still imprisons the doctor who helped us find him. This is not an ally of ours, they aren't likely to share this info with us.

Therefore, the vetting process cannot begin to keep us safe. There is no computer database we can access that will tell us if these people have been radicalized., is there?

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, because I would like to be able to welcome peaceful Muslims who are willing to assimmilate. But I don't see how you can begin to differentiate them from the radicals.

This woman was NOT radicalized here. She was radicalized before she got here, and we didn't come close to catching that, even though she wasn't exactly getting radicalized under the radar.

Unless this vetting process can be significantly improved, and I don't see how it can when these people often come from places that don't have paperwork or computer records, it's a waste of time to try. If there are holes in the vetting process, it stands to reason that the jihadists will intentionally exploit them.

Not good enough.

The one thing you have said that makes any sense, is that Trump cannot get elected.

But we are going to have the conversation, before you and I are gone, about whether or not this religion is compatible with the western way of life. I no longer think it is. And I do not say that lightly, never thought I could ever say that out loud.

[buckman]

We will see more of an uproar from the Muslums in this country over what Donald Trump has said, then we will see from them over the people that have been killed in the name of their religion.
We are seeing the same divisive approach by our president that he used against policeman in this country . Americans are now the bad people, and Muslims the victims .
By the way I think with Donald Trump said was idiotic .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

We will see more of an uproar from the Muslums in this country over what Donald Trump has said, then we will see from them over the people that have been killed in the name of their religion.
We are seeing the same divisive approach by our president that he used against policeman in this country . Americans are now the bad people, and Muslims the victims .
By the way I think with Donald Trump said was idiotic .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"We will see more of an uproar from the Muslums in this country over what Donald Trump has said"

Tough crap. Their feelings are getting hurt, our people are getting murdered.

"I think with Donald Trump said was idiotic "

I don't know anymore, I just don't.

[Nebe]

Anyone notice that the 'message' has been that background checks don't work when you want a buy a gun, and ironically that the background checks will work just fine for the migrants???

just an observation