the Trump Phenomenon

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

We've discussed this many times. Take out giving to churches and the #s are very close. My largest charity is to my church.

Agreed, it's very close, even with churches. I wasn't saying that conservatives are far more generous than liberals, so your pointing out the fact about churches, in no way responds to what I said.

YOU were the one who made th ecomment that democrats show compassion, implying to me, that you don't feel that conservatives share that compassion. That's demonstrably false. Unless I missed what you meant when you said this:

"They (Democrats) show some compassion for those that need a helping hand.

How is that?

What do Repub. do for Black people? "



The liberal policies that have been born out of that compassion, have been an abject disaster for blacks. Look at the urban areas that democrats have controled unilaterally for 40 years. Are they better, or worse, after 40 years of liberal rule, Paul?

If I asked you, or Spence, or Rockhound this question, how would you respond? Here's the question - please tell me what evidence there is, other than popular perception, that liberals care more about blacks than conservatives do? Seriously, how would you respond to that?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If I asked you, or Spence, or Rockhound this question, how would you respond? Here's the question - please tell me what evidence there is, other than popular perception, that liberals care more about blacks than conservatives do? Seriously, how would you respond to that?

I can't answer for them but the policies of the 2 parties differs greatly. The Rep. always blame the problems of blacks and the poor as being no fault of anyone but themselves and say "look at so and so. They picked themselves up from a terrrible beginning and made a success of themselves. Why can't Blacks do it". The Dems. try to help those people by funding pre-k, headstart and other social service orgs. Tough to become a success if you're going to school w/an empty stomach, dirty clothes and you haven't been read to the night before.

Studies have shown that someone raised in poverty has very little chance these days of raising out of the economic class they were born to.

I used the word compassion and you attached a link to a story about giving. Certainly you can have compassion w/o giving $ (volunteering) but a lot depends on $. People aren't going to give $ for someone else to get food stamps or fund a pre K.

Waiting for Buckman to respond. Maybe he can tell me a little about the pandering?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Waiting for Buckman to respond. Maybe he can tell me a little about the pandering?

Come on! When Hilary goes to a black precinct and she CHANGES HER DIALECT to sound more black, that's not pandering?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If I asked you, or Spence, or Rockhound this question, how would you respond? Here's the question - please tell me what evidence there is, other than popular perception, that liberals care more about blacks than conservatives do? Seriously, how would you respond to that?

Oh lookie, a political scientist studied this issue...

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s4/sh...713003733a.pdf

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Oh lookie, a political scientist studied this issue...

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s4/sh...713003733a.pdf

Your link doesn't work either
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Oh lookie, a political scientist studied this issue...

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s4/sh...713003733a.pdf

Your link doesn't work. Can you give me the cliffs notes version?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Your link doesn't work. Can you give me the cliffs notes version?

Try this one...

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s4/sh...c3e7a9ef680b41

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Oh lookie, a political scientist studied this issue...

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s4/sh...713003733a.pdf

For a minute I thought this might have been hosted on Hillarys server and she deleted it by mistake.
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[DZ]

I find this election cycle fascinating. The sheer numbers of people voting for Trump and other GOP candidates in the primaries has dwarfed the turnout numbers in the DEM primaries. Most presidential elections are won by the party who can attract most of independent voters AND in no small part, the numbers of what I call uneducated/uninformed voters. The Dems have had a monopoly on these uninformed/uneducated voters for the last two presidential elections. Trump has turned that portion of the electorate around and managed to get the vote out for the GOP.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by DZ

I find this election cycle fascinating. The sheer numbers of people voting for Trump and other GOP candidates in the primaries has dwarfed the turnout numbers in the DEM primaries. Most presidential elections are won by the party who can attract most of independent voters AND in no small part, the numbers of what I call uneducated/uninformed voters. The Dems have had a monopoly on these uninformed/uneducated voters for the last two presidential elections. Trump has turned that portion of the electorate around and managed to get the vote out for the GOP.

Sadly I agree ... will the Right blame these uninformed/uneducated voters for the last two presidential elections. when trump gets to the white house due to them or will they suddenly stop being uninformed and uneducated voters and become intelligent just because they Voted White I meant GOP???

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Sadly I agree ... will the Right blame these uninformed/uneducated voters for the last two presidential elections. when trump gets to the white house due to them or will they suddenly stop being uninformed and uneducated voters and become intelligent just because they Voted White I meant GOP???

Wait . . . Hillary is not white?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Wait . . . Hillary is not white?

Maybe he heard her pandering to blacks by switching to a jive dialect at one of her speeches and, assuming no one could be that condescending, he assumed she really is black.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

voters and become intelligent just because they Voted White I meant GOP???

Are you feeling OK? Your side has Hilary and Bernie.

The other side has Cruz, Rubio, Ben Carson.

Which side is whiter?

I await your honest, thoughtful reply. Good lord.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Sadly I agree ... will the Right blame these uninformed/uneducated voters for the last two presidential elections. when trump gets to the white house due to them or will they suddenly stop being uninformed and uneducated voters and become intelligent just because they Voted White I meant GOP???

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/...y-affiliation/

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/...y-affiliation/

Paul, earlier i asked you this question...other than public perception, what evidence is there, that democrats care any more about blacks, than republicans? I didn't see a response.

Paul, when I see what has happened here in CT, to places like Bridgeport and Hartford, controlled by Democrats for a generation, it makes me sick. I look at these failing cities, and I feel that (1) these people deserve better, and (2) whatever the leaders are doing, it clearly isn't working, so let's try something else, anything else.

Please tell me, how that makes me racist.

I think I can make a compelling case that for ANY Dempocratic leader of these cities to say with a straight face "elect me, because I am doing a good job representing you, and what you deserve, is more of the same"...I can make a case THAT is the person who obviously doesn't care about these people.

You cannot make that wrong. You just can't. And that's the agony and irony in all of this...it's what the Tea Party endorses, which is what blacks need to embrace to not just survive, but to start climbinbg th economic ladder. It worked when Bill Clinton did it.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Paul, when I see what has happened here in CT .

http://patch.com/connecticut/ridgefi...t-skyrockets-0

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Sadly I agree ... will the Right blame these uninformed/uneducated voters for the last two presidential elections. when trump gets to the white house due to them or will they suddenly stop being uninformed and uneducated voters and become intelligent just because they Voted White I meant GOP???

I don't think when Dennis wrote "uninformed and uneducated voters", he meant they didn't go to school or weren't intelligent, I think he meant they weren't necessarily politically astute or don't spend/invest considerable time into the political process which is why so many can't make up their minds each election cycle between two candidates with polar opposite views...but we still hear demands that they all get out and vote don't we?

like Dennis I'm thoroughly enjoying this go round....I don't like Trump but he's as close as you can get to actually waterboarding a leftist or a Republican establishment type and the MSM... which is endlessly amusing

[buckman]

They can't Jim . It's a myth , like affordable health care .
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by buckman

They can't Jim . It's a myth , like affordable health care .
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But medical inflation have been decreasing recently.

Maybe the Reps. will let Medicare negotiate drugs prices directly with drug manufacturer just as the insurance companies do. You're right is not affordable but that has been a many decades long issue.

New data released today by the Kaiser Family Foundation show that premium growth in employer-sponsored coverage remained slow in 2015, extending the recent streak of unusually slow growth. Taken together with estimates of current trends in Medicare spending released this summer, these data suggest that underlying growth in per-enrollee health care costs remains low, even as the dramatic expansion in coverage since early 2014 drives a temporary uptick in the growth of aggregate health care spending.



1. Premiums in employer-based coverage continued to grow slowly in 2015. The new Kaiser survey finds that the average premium for employer-based family coverage grew 4.2 percent in 2015. While slightly faster than the record-tying 3 percent rate recorded in 2014, this reading for 2015 continues the recent pattern of unusually slow growth; the last four years account for four of the five lowest growth rates since the survey began in 1999. The Kaiser estimates corroborate earlier estimates from the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Employer Cost Index that showed that slow growth in employers’ health benefit costs continued into 2015, as well as results from a national survey released last week by the consulting firm Mercer, which found that employers have seen slow growth persist through 2015 and expect it to continue into 2016.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

But medical inflation have been decreasing recently.

Maybe the Reps. will let Medicare negotiate drugs prices directly with drug manufacturer just as the insurance companies do. You're right is not affordable but that has been a many decades long issue.

New data released today by the Kaiser Family Foundation show that premium growth in employer-sponsored coverage remained slow in 2015, extending the recent streak of unusually slow growth. Taken together with estimates of current trends in Medicare spending released this summer, these data suggest that underlying growth in per-enrollee health care costs remains low, even as the dramatic expansion in coverage since early 2014 drives a temporary uptick in the growth of aggregate health care spending.



1. Premiums in employer-based coverage continued to grow slowly in 2015. The new Kaiser survey finds that the average premium for employer-based family coverage grew 4.2 percent in 2015. While slightly faster than the record-tying 3 percent rate recorded in 2014, this reading for 2015 continues the recent pattern of unusually slow growth; the last four years account for four of the five lowest growth rates since the survey began in 1999. The Kaiser estimates corroborate earlier estimates from the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Employer Cost Index that showed that slow growth in employers’ health benefit costs continued into 2015, as well as results from a national survey released last week by the consulting firm Mercer, which found that employers have seen slow growth persist through 2015 and expect it to continue into 2016.

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Premium growth is slow because the product is worse . Look at your deductible compared to before the ACA . Your out of pocket is way up .... Unless of course you get it subsidized .

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by buckman

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Premium growth is slow because the product is worse . Look at your deductible compared to before the ACA . Your out of pocket is way up .... Unless of course you get it subsidized .

You're right that prem. growth has slowed bc of that. Companies are pushing more of the cost of the insurance onto the ee. either through higher deductibles or making the ee pay a higher % of the costs. However, the overall costs of health care inflation (called Trend) has been decreasing. The following was from the 2nd part of what I posted.

The Kaiser estimates corroborate earlier estimates from the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Employer Cost Index that showed that slow growth in employers’ health benefit costs continued into 2015, as well as results from a national survey released last week by the consulting firm Mercer, which found that employers have seen slow growth persist through 2015 and expect it to continue into 2016.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

However, the overall costs of health care inflation (called Trend) has been decreasing.

Healthcare costs are not decreasing, though...they are just increasing at a slower rate. The trends are positive, but they are smaller positive than they have been in the past. Which hopefully is a start.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

New data released today by the Kaiser Family Foundation show that premium growth in employer-sponsored coverage remained slow in 2015,

Looking at premium changes, without considering what's covered, is very misleading. For example, if my new policy requires me to pay a huge deductible before the insurance kicks in, yet my premium doesn't change, that's still a huge rate increase to me. I'm not saying that your study is manipulating that, but you have to compare the premium charged, with how exttensive the coverage is.

And Obama didn't promise that premiums would increase at a slower pace. What he promised, is that the average family would see a $2500 annual decrease in cost.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

They show some compassion for those that need a helping hand.

How is that?

What do Repub. do for Black people?

For government, law, to be dispensed equally, it must be dispassionate. Compassion is a fellow feeling of people for other people. Dispassionate government is not "other" in relation to a free people. It is, at least it's supposed to be in our system, The People. The government doing things for people is people doing it for themselves. That is not compassion. That is self-reliance.

True compassion, person to person, is not a guaranteed, permanent relationship. True compassion does not reduce the beneficiary to dependence.

When government acts, as it does in dictatorial or tyrannical systems, as a separate person in relation to other persons (outside the government), those other persons are no longer beneficiaries of the kindness of other persons, on whom they cannot permanently depend. Instead, they are reduced to dependents. And when government has the power to reduce the people to the status of dependents, it derives and maintains its power as a dictator or as a ruling class of people who dole out favors (contrived compassion) to those who choose to depend on it and withholds favors from those who oppose it.

[PaulS]

Look at the 2nd page of the link for other cost deflators.

and since you mention the Cadillac tax (the implementatin was delayed):

It is a tax on the most expensive insurance plans to slow people's’ use of health care. It will lesson the employer sponsored tax subsidy that the vast majority of healthcare economists think cause the overuse of healthcare. It will hit a larger and larger % of premiums over time.

Business, ees and insurers won’t like that so insurers will be forced develop ways to reduce health care costs and drive harder bargains with providers. This will also likely mean that more health care costs are shifted from premiums to out-of-pocket expenses. That should encourage lower utilization and/or lower prices too.

[The Dad Fisherman]

I think we traded for Micheal Jackson and gave them a "Player to be Named Later"........so we are in the process of completing the trade. Hillary is "Dat Playah"
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[scottw]

ha..ha..ha...stupid MSNBC talking heads...when things don't go the way you planned

[scottw]

Obamacare...here's a shocker

http://freebeacon.com/issues/officia...-on-the-brink/

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

ha..ha..ha...stupid MSNBC talking heads...when things don't go the way you planned

Oh, that restored my belief in a benign God!

Of course, she had to say "of course, a majority of trump's supporters are not African Americans".

I have news for that MENSA candidate...neither are a majority of Barack Obama's supporters.

When you cannot win the debate on the merits of your ideas (and liberals rarely can), ALWAYS resort to the race card. Always.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

ha..ha..ha...stupid MSNBC talking heads...when things don't go the way you planned

In a related story, The Narrative was rushed to the hospital via LifeStar helicopter, but was pronounced dead on arrival.