Vetting refugees

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

I'd think vetting citizens is probably a lot harder.

U.S. Citizen:

Birth Certificate = Verify Age
Social Security Card = Verify Employment History
Drivers License = Driving Record/Insurance Issues/Infractions
Credit Cards = Credit History/Shopping History
Bank Accounts = Financial History/Transactions/

Interview Employers, Neighbors, Known Associates.
Check Facebook, Twitter, and other Social Media footprints


Syrian Refugee:

No Birth Certificate = Can't verify Age
No Social Security Card = Can't verify Identity
No Drivers License = Can't verify Identity
No Credit Cards
No Bank Accounts
No Way to verify Work History
No Way to interview Employers, Neighbors, or Known Associates

But he can say his name is Bob and he promises to behave....you're right, that is sooooo much easier.

I'll just google Bob and see if I can find his facebook account....

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I posted a link that details the entire vetting process.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

There is no doubt that we have had a significant increase in the amount of immigrants allowed to come into this country wether on work visas or as refugees . Not to mention the illegal immigrants that are allowed to stay and continue coming .
My question is why and how does it benefit this country ?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I posted a link that details the entire vetting process.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You also posted a link saying that this was the act of a jilted lover, not terrorism.

Let's dive into that a bit. We have the shooter's own words, HIS OWN WORDS, saying that he did what he did, for Allah. Not god enough for you.

We have a 3rd party who says it was a romantic squabble. And that 3rd party declaration, in your mind, has more credibility than what the shooter himself confessed.

Cue the 'twilight zone' music.

You always choose politics over facts and common sense. Always, always, always. Anything that shields your beloved from criticism.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

U.S. Citizen:

Birth Certificate = Verify Age
Social Security Card = Verify Employment History
Drivers License = Driving Record/Insurance Issues/Infractions
Credit Cards = Credit History/Shopping History
Bank Accounts = Financial History/Transactions/

Interview Employers, Neighbors, Known Associates.
Check Facebook, Twitter, and other Social Media footprints


Syrian Refugee:

No Birth Certificate = Can't verify Age
No Social Security Card = Can't verify Identity
No Drivers License = Can't verify Identity
No Credit Cards
No Bank Accounts
No Way to verify Work History
No Way to interview Employers, Neighbors, or Known Associates

But he can say his name is Bob and he promises to behave....you're right, that is sooooo much easier.

I'll just google Bob and see if I can find his facebook account....

Gee, when you put it that way...

[fishbones]

It's kind of fun watching Spence unravel between this thread and the caterpillar one.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by fishbones

It's kind of fun watching Spence unravel between this thread and the caterpillar one.
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Maybe we should reopen the Bengazi thread
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[The Dad Fisherman]

....or the E-Mail server thread

[fishbones]

Right now he's locked in the bathroom sitting in the shower, clutching his knees to his chest and rocking back and forth while his wife is banging on the door and yelling at him.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

U.S. Citizen:

Birth Certificate = Verify Age
Social Security Card = Verify Employment History
Drivers License = Driving Record/Insurance Issues/Infractions
Credit Cards = Credit History/Shopping History
Bank Accounts = Financial History/Transactions/

Interview Employers, Neighbors, Known Associates.
Check Facebook, Twitter, and other Social Media footprints


Syrian Refugee:

No Birth Certificate = Can't verify Age
No Social Security Card = Can't verify Identity
No Drivers License = Can't verify Identity
No Credit Cards
No Bank Accounts
No Way to verify Work History
No Way to interview Employers, Neighbors, or Known Associates

But he can say his name is Bob and he promises to behave....you're right, that is sooooo much easier.

I'll just google Bob and see if I can find his facebook account....

You're missing the point. The FBI can't access most of that without a warrant. You also make it sound like the vetting process is totally open, it's not...read up.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Maybe we should reopen the Bengazi thread
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sure, I'd like to hear your thoughts about Trey Gowdy spending 7 million taxpayer dollars to uncover essentially no new information.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You also posted a link saying that this was the act of a jilted lover, not terrorism.

Let's dive into that a bit. We have the shooter's own words, HIS OWN WORDS, saying that he did what he did, for Allah. Not god enough for you.

We have a 3rd party who says it was a romantic squabble. And that 3rd party declaration, in your mind, has more credibility than what the shooter himself confessed.

Cue the 'twilight zone' music.

You always choose politics over facts and common sense. Always, always, always. Anything that shields your beloved from criticism.

I think it's quite reasonable to believe someone with life or mental issues could be drawn to extremism and reach a breaking point. Looks like it happened with Hassan at Ft Hood and quite possibly here.

Think like a detective Jim...

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

You're missing the point. The FBI can't access most of that without a warrant. You also make it sound like the vetting process is totally open, it's not...read up.

No, You're missing the point(s)

A) I'm already a citizen so, yeah you need a warrant due to my constitutional rights. but since I'm already a citizen I don't need to apply to come here and/or become a citizen. That makes that entire argument moot

B) If you want to come here and become a citizen, you should be voluntarily providing me with all that information so that I can properly vet you.

C) If you can't voluntarily provide that information so we can vet you, because none of it exists or is accessible....then how do we successfully vet you? (here's a hint: You can't)

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You're missing the point. The FBI can't access most of that without a warrant. You also make it sound like the vetting process is totally open, it's not...read up.

No, you are missing the point. Because whatever the FBI can access even without a warrant, is more than anyone can access about a refugee from Syria who lived in a village with no information to even try to access.

It's obvious common sense. If we can't detect terrorists among our own citizens, only you would say it's easier to weed out terrorists from a crowd of Middle Eastern refugees, when we probably can't even confirm their identity, let alone their background, in some cases.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I think it's quite reasonable to believe someone with life or mental issues could be drawn to extremism and reach a breaking point. Looks like it happened with Hassan at Ft Hood and quite possibly here.

Think like a detective Jim...

Yes, it's possible. But what evidence is there, that's more compelling than the man's own confession?

Think like someone who isn't in love with Obama, Spence...

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Sure, I'd like to hear your thoughts about Trey Gowdy spending 7 million taxpayer dollars to uncover essentially no new information.

Think of how little we would have known without Trey . You would have liked that .
We know now that they intentionally didn't provide help . Speaks volumes unless you hold your fingers in your ears . And didn't those 4 dead Americans deserve due diligence ?
Also I believe the FBI has spent more on the email scandal , which could have been avoided if she wasn't corrupt .
7 million ? Pennies compared to a yearly Martha's Vinyard vaca for your spank buddy . 😊
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

You're missing the point. The FBI can't access most of that without a warrant. You also make it sound like the vetting process is totally open, it's not...read up.

Sooo....Lets read up...shall we. this is the procedure from your link.

Step 1: Collects identifying documents (as was mentioned, none exist)
Collect Bio Data: Name, Address, Birthday, Place of Birth (No Documents exist to VERIFY any of this information)

Collect Biometrics: Iris Scans (Newsflash, this is to help identify them for future ID in case of an issue, There is NOTHING that exists that can link them to past actions)


Step 2: Collects Identifying Documents (Huh, did these all of a sudden magically appear)

Create an Applicant File. (Ooooohhh now we mean business, we have an actual folder that has all of your supposed unverified information on it)


Step 3: US Security Agencies screen the Candidate (so they use all the unverified data collected to see if any flags pop, but since the data could be false.....everything looks good)


Step 4: The Interviews are conducted. (This is where they promise to work and play well with others)


Step 5: Fingerprints are screened (again if there is no database to bounce these against then they are good)


....and according to your link this is the end of the Security portion of the vetting process.

do I need to go on......point is....if the initial information is false, the entire process they follow is built upon false data.

But the graphic they used is a might purty....so I can see where you might be lulled into a false sense of security.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Sooo....Lets read up...shall we. this is the procedure from your link.

Step 1: Collects identifying documents (as was mentioned, none exist)
Collect Bio Data: Name, Address, Birthday, Place of Birth (No Documents exist to VERIFY any of this information)

Collect Biometrics: Iris Scans (Newsflash, this is to help identify them for future ID in case of an issue, There is NOTHING that exists that can link them to past actions)


Step 2: Collects Identifying Documents (Huh, did these all of a sudden magically appear)

Create an Applicant File. (Ooooohhh now we mean business, we have an actual folder that has all of your supposed unverified information on it)


Step 3: US Security Agencies screen the Candidate (so they use all the unverified data collected to see if any flags pop, but since the data could be false.....everything looks good)


Step 4: The Interviews are conducted. (This is where they promise to work and play well with others)


Step 5: Fingerprints are screened (again if there is no database to bounce these against then they are good)


....and according to your link this is the end of the Security portion of the vetting process.

do I need to go on......point is....if the initial information is false, the entire process they follow is built upon false data.

But the graphic they used is a might purty....so I can see where you might be lulled into a false sense of security.

Well I don't know about you, but that puts my mind at ease...

As you pointed out, all this presumes that (1) records exist on these people, and that (2) there is a mechanism for verifying said records.

Oh yes, that interview, that must really cut down on terror. Because as we all know, a terrorist would never fail to announce his intentions ahead of time.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

We know now that they intentionally didn't provide help . Speaks volumes unless you hold your fingers in your ears . And didn't those 4 dead Americans deserve due diligence ?

I love it, 7 investigations not including the last and there's no due diligence...amazing.

As for intentionally not providing help I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I love it, 7 investigations not including the last and there's no due diligence...amazing.

As for intentionally not providing help I have no idea what you're talking about.

How many of the 7 previous hearings, did Hilary testify at?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

How many of the 7 previous hearings, did Hilary testify at?

Truthfully ....0
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

Truthfully ....0
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And that alone, justifies the additional hearing. Whether (like me) you think that hearing showed that she was dishonest about flip-flopping between calling it a terrorist attack and calling it a response to a video, or (like Spence) you think that hearing showed that she deserves to be on Mt Rushmore.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

And that alone, justifies the additional hearing. Whether (like me) you think that hearing showed that she was dishonest about flip-flopping between calling it a terrorist attack and calling it a response to a video, or (like Spence) you think that hearing showed that she deserves to be on Mt Rushmore.

Gowdy looked like a fool at that hearing. The GOP reports on the talking points cleared State of any wrong doing...read more Jim.

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

No, You're missing the point(s)

A) I'm already a citizen so, yeah you need a warrant due to my constitutional rights. but since I'm already a citizen I don't need to apply to come here and/or become a citizen. That makes that entire argument moot

Refugees aren't applying for citizenship.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Well I don't know about you, but that puts my mind at ease...

As you pointed out, all this presumes that (1) records exist on these people, and that (2) there is a mechanism for verifying said records.

Oh yes, that interview, that must really cut down on terror. Because as we all know, a terrorist would never fail to announce his intentions ahead of time.

There are records and there is process. Even without perfect records you can learn and verify a lot through process.

Big point is that no refugee can even say they want to go to the US. The UN has to nominate them for resettlement, the refugee has no idea where they are going.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Refugees aren't applying for citizenship.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

A silly meme. Really?

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

There is no doubt that we have had a significant increase in the amount of immigrants allowed to come into this country wether on work visas or as refugees . Not to mention the illegal immigrants that are allowed to stay and continue coming .
My question is why and how does it benefit this country ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Significant since when?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

A silly meme. Really?

A five word reply was all you had....Figured that was the direction you were heading.....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Refugees aren't applying for citizenship.

Well, maybe I should have answered this with a Spencism....

You are reading it out of context.....read it again
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Gowdy looked like a fool at that hearing. The GOP reports on the talking points cleared State of any wrong doing...read more Jim.

To anyone capable of objective thought, he showed that she was dishonest about the flip-flopping of causes of the attack. He didn't get her to confess to anything, obviously, no new bombshells. Think more some Spence.

Spence, I have asked you several times, to provide SOME evidence (besides her own self-serving statements) that every time she changed her tune, she was honestly reacting to the latest intelligence (rather than covering her own ass). You never posted a thing. Gee, I wonder why that is?

And isn't it a coincidence, that just before all of her public statements, they told her that it was a response to a video. And just before her private calls with Chelsea and the president of Egypt, they just told her it was a terrorist attack. And when she got frustrated about being asked, of course, she shrieked what does it matter. As we all know, the truth doesn't matter a whole lot to her (I came under sniper fire (which somehow according to you was not a lie), Bill was framed by the GOP to make it look like he fooled around with Monica) or her husband (who is such a scumbag, that he got disbarred, which takes some doing).