Civil Rights

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Wayne: https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/05/us/de...rnd/index.html

yes but they did not ban guns now did they .. they banned assault rifles well with in their right to do so not all guns

Pete: http://www.reformer.com/stories/will...ictions,536718




Nahhhh, hold my beer ; )




No Eben - in order to purchase a gun in Mass you must already have a gun permit (FID Card) - which means you have gone trough all the forms, background checks, and processes plus have waited one to two months (or more) in order to get the card.



Interesting list. Missed your point - you want your kids to be able to do whatever drugs they want? Eat your dog?

but nice try

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

You are talking about a handgun. :moon:
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No, I am talking about any gun.
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[Nebe]

your splitting hairs... i can walk into a gun store and buy a shot gun or a long gun no questions asked.. no? I know in RI if i want a hand gun i need to pass a gun safety test. but a shotgun... no problem.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Nebe

your splitting hairs... i can walk into a gun store and buy a shot gun or a long gun no questions asked.. no? I know in RI if i want a hand gun i need to pass a gun safety test. but a shotgun... no problem.

No Eben, if you want to buy a shot gun in RI you go to your LGS, buy it, fill out a bunch of forms, have your personal information floated by your local PD (yes) where they run your info against the national back ground system with the Feds and see if there is anything disqualifying there. Then you get to wait 7 days.

Besides, if you walked into your LGS you might need to lie on the form (ATF Form 4473) about partaking in certain, umm, substances .

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/44...53009/download

The only way you can go into a LGS and buy a gun and walk out with it that day is if you have a Concealed Carry License, and you have already jumped through more hoops.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Nebe

your splitting hairs... i can walk into a gun store and buy a shot gun or a long gun no questions asked.. no? I know in RI if i want a hand gun i need to pass a gun safety test. but a shotgun... no problem.

uh, NO

there are questions asked

[Pete F.]

In Vermont I can walk into a gun shop and after a phone call to ATF and a payment walk out with any legal firearm. Is that bad? More than 1 suicide happened last year the day a gun was bought, you decide.
Our rights come at a cost to society paid by individuals.
I’m concerned that choosing a hard line may preserve the status quo for now but will end with the repeal of the second amendment.
Time will tell
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I’m concerned that choosing a hard line may preserve the status quo for now but will end with the repeal of the second amendment.
Time will tell
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Good luck with that - getting 2/3rds of both houses to repeal. Then ratified by the states.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

In Vermont I can walk into a gun shop and after a phone call to ATF and a payment walk out with any legal firearm. Is that bad? More than 1 suicide happened last year the day a gun was bought, you decide.

I see your point. You had a suicide there last year. That should be enough reason for the other 300+ million of us to decide to give up our rights. God . . . the horror . . . what if you had two suicides?!! What on earth could we give up to make up for that?

Our rights come at a cost to society paid by individuals.

Now I understand why Progressives don't like us to have rights not approved of by the government. They come at a cost to society paid by individuals. Very logical. The Founders should have thought of that. Karl Marx and Putin are obviously wiser than they were.

I’m concerned that choosing a hard line may preserve the status quo for now but will end with the repeal of the second amendment.
Time will tell
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Why are you concerned? It would obviously be a good thing to get rid of those pesky rights thingies. They come at a cost to society. Imagine how rich society would be if rights, except those "reasonable" ones that government allows us to have, were eliminated. Probly could wipe out that unsustainable debt we've created as a result of us having too many rights.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Why are you concerned? It would obviously be a good thing to get rid of those pesky rights thingies. They come at a cost to society. Imagine how rich society would be if rights, except those "reasonable" ones that government allows us to have, were eliminated. Probly could wipe out that unsustainable debt we've created as a result of us having too many rights.

I'm concerned because i think that eventually my children will not have the right to have guns.
My other concern is that many of the same people who are concerned about having gun rights think that people do not have the right to:
Burn a flag
Build a house
Do any drug they want
Not pay taxes
Have a boat
Eat horses
Have or eat a dog
Have more than one wife
Distill alcohol

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

In Vermont I can walk into a gun shop and after a phone call to ATF and a payment walk out with any legal firearm. Is that bad? More than 1 suicide happened last year the day a gun was bought, you decide.
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If a person wants to kill themselves they are going to do it, regardless of whether they get a gun that day or not. the evil there is not the gun, its depression.

I've personally known 5 people that tried to commit suicide, 4 succeeded, none of them used a gun.

[Slipknot]

I did not realize an actual list was needed but in case you have not been paying attention, here you are.
1. Sen. Dianne Feinstein
2. Sen. Joe Manchin
3. Sen. Chuck Schumer
4. Sen. Chris Murphy
5. Gov. Andrew Cuomo
6. Sen. #^&#^&#^&#^& Durbin
7. Hillary Clinton
8. Obama
9. Bernie Sanders
10. Joe Biden

Let’s not forget Bloomberg, George Soros and so many others





And now for the gun-grabbing celebrity list:



Jessica Alba – Actor Suzy Amis – Actor Louis Anderson – Comedian Richard Dean Anderson – Actor Maya Angelou – Poet David Arquette – Actor Ed Asner – Actor Alec Baldwin – Actor Carol Bayer Sager – Composer

Drew Barrymore – Actor Kevin Bacon – Actor William Baldwin – Actor Candice Bergen – Actor Richard Belzer – Actor Tony Bennett – Singer Beyonce – Singer Jon Bon Jovi – Singer Peter Bogdonovich – Director Albert Brooks – Actor Beau Bridges – Actor Christie Brinkley – Model Dr. Joyce Brothers – Psychologist/Author James Brolin – Actor Mel Brooks – Actor/Director Ellen Burstyn – Actor Steve Buscemi – Actor Kate Capshaw – Actor Kim Cattrall – Actor George Clooney – Actor Jennifer Connelly – Actor Judy Collins – Singer Kevin Costner – Actor Sean Connery – Actor Sheryl Crow – Singer Billy Crystal – Actor

Matt Damon – Actor Ellen Degeneres – Actor Danny DeVito – Actor Michael Douglas – Actor Phil Donahue – Talk Show Host Richard Dreyfus – Actor David Duchovny – Actor Sandy Duncan – Actor Gloria Estefan – Singer Melissa Etheridge – Singer Mia Farrow – Actor Mike Farrell – Actor Carrie Fisher – Actor Sally Field – Actor Doug Flutie – NFL player Fannie Flagg – Actor Jane Fonda – Actor Jodie Foster – Actor Rick Fox – NBA Player Andy Garcia – Actor Art Garfunkel – Singer Geraldo Rivera – TV personality Richard Gere – Actor Kathie Lee Gifford – TV personality Elliott Gould – Actor Louis Gossett, Jr. – Actor Bryant Gumbel – TV Personality Ethan Hawke – Actor Mariette Hartley – Actor Mark Harmon – Actor Anne Heche – Actor Howard Hesseman – Actor

Marilu Henner – Actor Dustin Hoffman – Actor

Diane Keaton – Actor Chaka Khan – Singer Lenny Kravits – Singer Lisa Kudrow – Actor k.d. lang – Singer John Leguizamo – Actor Norman Lear – TV Producer

Spike Lee – Director Hal Linden – Actor Tara Lipinski – Former Olympian Keyshawn Johnson – NFL player Rob Lowe – Actor

Madonna – Singer Penny Marshall – Director John McEnroe – Athlete

Bette Midler – Singer Mary Tyler Moore – Actor Michael Moore – Film Maker Mike Nichols – Director

Rosie O’Donnell – Actor/Talk Show Host Jennifer O’Neill – Actor Julia Ormond – Actor Jane Pauley – TV Personality Sarah Jessica Parker – Actor Mandy Patinkin – Actor

Julia Roberts – Actor Meg Ryan – Actor Susan Sarandon – Actor

Will Ferrell – Actor Jamie Foxx – Actor Jennifer Garner – Actor Selena Gomez – Actor Kate Hudson – Actor

Do you also need the list of organizations?

What is your point of asking me for specifics?
It seems to me the typical leftist tactic of arguing something with the prove me wrong nonsense
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

I did not realize an actual list was needed but in case you have not been paying attention, here you are.
1. Sen. Dianne Feinstein
2. Sen. Joe Manchin
3. Sen. Chuck Schumer
4. Sen. Chris Murphy
5. Gov. Andrew Cuomo
6. Sen. #^&#^&#^&#^& Durbin
7. Hillary Clinton
8. Obama
9. Bernie Sanders
10. Joe Biden

Let’s not forget Bloomberg, George Soros and so many others





And now for the gun-grabbing celebrity list:



Jessica Alba – Actor Suzy Amis – Actor Louis Anderson – Comedian Richard Dean Anderson – Actor Maya Angelou – Poet David Arquette – Actor Ed Asner – Actor Alec Baldwin – Actor Carol Bayer Sager – Composer

Drew Barrymore – Actor Kevin Bacon – Actor William Baldwin – Actor Candice Bergen – Actor Richard Belzer – Actor Tony Bennett – Singer Beyonce – Singer Jon Bon Jovi – Singer Peter Bogdonovich – Director Albert Brooks – Actor Beau Bridges – Actor Christie Brinkley – Model Dr. Joyce Brothers – Psychologist/Author James Brolin – Actor Mel Brooks – Actor/Director Ellen Burstyn – Actor Steve Buscemi – Actor Kate Capshaw – Actor Kim Cattrall – Actor George Clooney – Actor Jennifer Connelly – Actor Judy Collins – Singer Kevin Costner – Actor Sean Connery – Actor Sheryl Crow – Singer Billy Crystal – Actor

Matt Damon – Actor Ellen Degeneres – Actor Danny DeVito – Actor Michael Douglas – Actor Phil Donahue – Talk Show Host Richard Dreyfus – Actor David Duchovny – Actor Sandy Duncan – Actor Gloria Estefan – Singer Melissa Etheridge – Singer Mia Farrow – Actor Mike Farrell – Actor Carrie Fisher – Actor Sally Field – Actor Doug Flutie – NFL player Fannie Flagg – Actor Jane Fonda – Actor Jodie Foster – Actor Rick Fox – NBA Player Andy Garcia – Actor Art Garfunkel – Singer Geraldo Rivera – TV personality Richard Gere – Actor Kathie Lee Gifford – TV personality Elliott Gould – Actor Louis Gossett, Jr. – Actor Bryant Gumbel – TV Personality Ethan Hawke – Actor Mariette Hartley – Actor Mark Harmon – Actor Anne Heche – Actor Howard Hesseman – Actor

Marilu Henner – Actor Dustin Hoffman – Actor

Diane Keaton – Actor Chaka Khan – Singer Lenny Kravits – Singer Lisa Kudrow – Actor k.d. lang – Singer John Leguizamo – Actor Norman Lear – TV Producer

Spike Lee – Director Hal Linden – Actor Tara Lipinski – Former Olympian Keyshawn Johnson – NFL player Rob Lowe – Actor

Madonna – Singer Penny Marshall – Director John McEnroe – Athlete

Bette Midler – Singer Mary Tyler Moore – Actor Michael Moore – Film Maker Mike Nichols – Director

Rosie O’Donnell – Actor/Talk Show Host Jennifer O’Neill – Actor Julia Ormond – Actor Jane Pauley – TV Personality Sarah Jessica Parker – Actor Mandy Patinkin – Actor

Julia Roberts – Actor Meg Ryan – Actor Susan Sarandon – Actor

Will Ferrell – Actor Jamie Foxx – Actor Jennifer Garner – Actor Selena Gomez – Actor Kate Hudson – Actor

Do you also need the list of organizations?

What is your point of asking me for specifics?
It seems to me the typical leftist tactic of arguing something with the prove me wrong nonsense
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you need to understand what banning is and what gun control is

they are not the same thing

buts its a good thing you have ted nugent and scott baio on yourside

PS you haven't proved anything except you think everyones coming for your guns ... and no one on that list has or had the power to make it happen and by listing the "Actors" list you have shown how out of touch your view really is ... please provide the link to the website you got it from.. because you did not dream that up on your own

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by wdmso

you need to understand what banning is and what gun control is

they are not the same thing

buts its a good thing you have ted nugent and scott baio on yourside

PS you haven't proved anything except you think everyones coming for your guns ... and no one on that list has or had the power to make it happen and by listing the "Actors" list you have shown how out of touch your view really is ... please provide the link to the website you got it from.. because you did not dream that up on your own

"out of touch MY view is" That is your opinion based on years of your own personal life experiences. Try understanding that listing those peoples' opinions makes my point that these people are influencing all the sheep who pressure those who actually do have the power to ban guns. But I guess you needed me to point that out to you.( I can be condescending also)
And since I did not explain why I listed those, you proclaimed that you win the debate. I never said everyone is coming for my guns, those are your words.
I understand what infringements are.
It's a good thing you have all that money on your side.

So while I am back on this thread again,
here is a nice blog you will get another list for you to mock.

https://thewriterinblack.com/2017/05...e-your-guns-2/


too long to copy and paste the whole thing but here is a sample


Whenever I, or others, object to “registration” or bans on transfers, or other forms of “gun control” and firearms restrictions as steps toward an eventual complete prohibition and the confiscation that such would necessarily entail, we get told we’re paranoid and “nobody wants to take your guns.”

Well, perhaps we should consider these “nobodies”:

“A gun-control movement worthy of the name would insist that President Clinton move beyond his proposals for controls … and immediately call on Congress to pass far-reaching industry regulation like the Firearms Safety and Consumer Protection Act … [which] would give the Treasury Department health and safety authority over the gun industry, and any rational regulator with that authority would ban handguns.” Josh Sugarmann (executive director of the Violence Policy Center)

“My view of guns is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns would be banned.” Deborah Prothrow-Stith (Dean of Harvard School of Public Health)

“I don’t care if you want to hunt, I don’t care if you think it’s your right. I say ‘Sorry.’ it’s 1999. We have had enough as a nation. You are not allowed to own a gun, and if you do own a gun I think you should go to prison.” Rosie O’Donnell (At about the time she said this, Rosie engaged the services of a bodyguard who applied for a gun permit.)

“Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.” Andrew Cuomo

“I do not believe in people owning guns. Guns should be owned only by [the] police and military. I am going to do everything I can to disarm this state.” Michael Dukakis

“If someone is so fearful that they are going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, it makes me very nervous that these people have weapons at all.” U.S. Rep. Henry Waxman

“In fact, the assault weapons ban will have no significant effect either on the crime rate or on personal security. Nonetheless, it is a good idea … Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic – purely symbolic – move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation.” Charles Krauthammer, columnist, 4/5/96 Washington Post

“Ban the damn things. Ban them all. You want protection? Get a dog.” Molly Ivins, columnist, 7/19/94

“[To get a] permit to own a firearm, that person should undergo an exhaustive criminal background check. In addition, an applicant should give up his right to privacy and submit his medical records for review to see if the person has ever had a problem with alcohol, drugs or mental illness . . . The Constitution doesn’t count!” John Silber, former chancellor of Boston University and candidate for Governor of Massachusetts. Speech before the Quequechan Club of Fall River, MA. August 16, 1990

“I think you have to do it a step at a time and I think that is what the NRA is most concerned about. Is that it will happen one very small step at a time so that by the time, um, people have woken up, quote, to what’s happened, it’s gone farther than what they feel the consensus of American citizens would be. But it does have to go one step at a time and the banning of semiassault military weapons that are military weapons, not household weapons, is the first step.” Mayor Barbara Fass, Stockton, CA

“Handguns should be outlawed. Our organization will probably take this stand in time but we are not anxious to rouse the opposition before we get the other legislation passed.” Elliot Corbett, Secretary, National Council For A Responsible Firearms Policy (interview appeared in the Washington Evening Star on September 19, 1969)

“Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe.” Senator Diane Feinstein, 1993

[Slipknot]

truth

[spence]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Whenever I, or others, object to “registration” or bans on transfers, or other forms of “gun control” and firearms restrictions as steps toward an eventual complete prohibition and the confiscation that such would necessarily entail, we get told we’re paranoid and “nobody wants to take your guns.”

The number of influential people who want to ban "all" guns seems to be extremely small. Most of the quotes on that page are talking about prohibitions on specific weapons only.

There's almost zero public support for the idea of banning "all" guns. Yet, the percentage of the population in favor of tighter restrictions is overwhelming. Politicians are left hamstrung by special interest money over the will of their constituents.

I'll bet you do look good in a weskit and tricorn when you go to church though

[Slipknot]

The following organizations have lent monetary, grassroots or some other type of direct support to anti-gun organizations. In many instances, these organizations lent their name in support of specific campaigns to pass anti-gun legislation such as the March 1995 HCI “Campaign to Protect Sane Gun Laws.” Many of these organizations were listed as “Campaign Partners,” for having pledged to fight any efforts to repeal the Brady Act and the Clinton “assault weapons” ban. All have officially endorsed anti-gun positions.

AARP AFL-CIO Ambulatory Pediatric Association American Academy of Pediatrics American Civil Liberties Union American Academy of Ambulatory Care Nursing American Medical Women’s Association American Medical Student Association American Medical Association American Association for the Surgery of Trauma American Trauma Society American Federation of Teachers



American Association of School Administrators American Alliance for Rights and Responsibilities American Medical Association American Counseling Association American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry American Academy of Pediatrics American Association for World Health American Ethical Union American Nurses Association American Association of Neurological Surgeons American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences American Firearms Association American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry

American Jewish Committee American Trauma Society American Psychological Association American Jewish Congress American Public Health Association Americans for Democratic Action Anti-Defamation League Black Mental Health Alliance B’nai B’rith Central Conference of American Rabbis Children’s Defense Fund Church of the Brethren Coalition for Peace Action Coalition to Stop Gun Violence College Democrats of America Committee for the Study of Handgun Misuse & World Peace Common Cause Congress of National Black Churches, Inc. Congress of Neurological Surgeons Consumer Federation of America Council of the Great City Schools Council of Chief State School Officers Disarm Educational Fund Environmental Action Foundation Episcopal Church-Washington Office Friends Committee on National Legislation General Federation of Women’s Clubs Gray Panthers H.M. Strong Foundation Hadassah Harris Foundation Hechinger Foundation Interfaith Neighbors Int’l Ladies’ Garment Workers’ Union Int’l Association of Educators for World Peace Jewish Labor Committee Joyce Foundation Lauder Foundation Lawrence Foundation League of Women Voters of the United States* Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Manhattan Project II Mennonite Central Committee-Washington Office National Safe Kids Campaign National Association of Police Organizations National Coalition Against Domestic Violence National Black Nurses’ Association National Association of Chain Drug Stores National Network for Youth National Assembly of National Voluntary Health & Social Welfare Organizations National Association for the Advancement of Colored People National Association of School Psychologists National Association of Pediatric Nurse Associates & Practitioners National Association of School Safety and Law Enforcement Officers National Education Association National Association of Public Hospitals National Coalition Against Domestic Violence National Association of Secondary School Principals National Association of Social Workers National Association of Children’s Hospitals and Related Institutions National Association of School Psychologists National Council of La Raza National Center to Rehabilitate Violent Youth National Commission for Economic Conversion & Disarmament National Council of the Chur ches of Christ in the USA National Council of Negro Women National Association of Community Health Centers National People’s Action National Education Association National League of Cities National Council on Family Relations National Council of Jewish Women National Organization for Women National Political Congress of Black Women National Parks and Conservation Association National Peace Foundation National Urban League, Inc. National Parent, Teachers Association National Urban Coalition National SAFE KIDS Campaign National Organization on Disability NETWORK: A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby Peace Action People for the American Way Physicians for Social Responsibility Project on Demilitarization and Democracy Society of Critical Care Medicine Southern Christian Leadership Conference The Council of the Great City Schools The Synergetic Society 20/20 Vision U.S. Catholic Conference, Dept. of Social Development Union of American Hebrew Congregations Unitarian Universalist Association United States Catholic Conference United Methodist Church, General Board & Church Society United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society* United States Conference of Mayors War and Peace Foundation Women Strike for Peace Women’s National Democratic Club Women’s Action for New Directions (WAND) Women’s Int’l League for Peace and Freedom World Spiritual Assembly, Inc. YWCA of the U.S.A.
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[Slipknot]

8 lies used by gun grabbers

https://www.libertyblock.com/single-...y-Gun-Grabbers

Read this
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

8 lies used by gun grabbers

https://www.libertyblock.com/single-...y-Gun-Grabbers

Read this
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This is some grade A conspiracy, paranoid misinformation right here.

I heard stuff like this existed but I didn't think anyone really believed it???

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

This is some grade A conspiracy, paranoid misinformation right here.

I heard stuff like this existed but I didn't think anyone really believed it???

apparently you believe it

[Slipknot]

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Are you joining that cult?
Or are you trying to say you can have many wives or concubines here?

[Slipknot]

Minnesota Bill Introduced 2018: “Expand the definition of an “assault weapon” to include many semiautomatic pistols, rifles or shotguns and makes possessing them a felony, with the exception of some that were legally registered before February 2018. Those owning a grandfathered assault weapon must undergo a background check, renew their registration annually, and use them only on their property or at a shooting range. Such weapons could not be sold or transferred, only surrendered to law enforcement for destruction.” Even ignoring the “possessing” part the inability to transfer makes it a ban with delayed enforcement.

East Lansing School District has made an official resolution which includes: “Whereas, no civilian should ever be allowed to purchase, possess or use a weapon of mass destruction, including but not limited to automatic and semi-automatic guns, nor be allowed to purchase, possess or use any magazine, clip or other tool designed to deliver rapid-fire ammunition without the need to reload;” (That’s the vast majority of all firearms in American and pretty much anything but single-shot firearms.)

“Kerry Picket, Sirius XM Patriot: ‘Now some would argue that then guns and ammunition would only be available to those with money, those who are wealthy. And that those who are in the lower classes as far as financial terms are concerned would not be able to afford such weapons. Tell me about that.’

“Congressman Danny Davis (D-Ill.): ‘Well I would be just as pleased if neither group were able to get them [guns]. So what I am saying is it doesn’t pose an issue for me because I would like to outlaw them altogether. I am saying I would like to make it where nobody except military personnel would ever have access to these weapons. So it wouldn’t bother me that one category of people couldn’t get them even if the other one was willing to pay the high price for them. Then we use that money for services that are needed and people could make use of them.’
“Picket: ‘So rich people only could own firearms?’
“Congressman Davis: ‘So if rich people could only get firearms then only rich people would be able to pay the price. And if that could prevent some people from getting them, I would want to prevent all people from getting them. But if rich people were willing, and would continue to pay the high price then I’d be happy that we kept the other group from getting them.'” Audio of interview included at this link.

An article at VOX.COM: “Realistically, a gun control plan that has any hope of getting us down to European levels of violence is going to mean taking a huge number of guns away from a huge number of gun owners.”

House Bill effectively a delayed ban on the vast majority of firearms in the US: “The bill prohibits the ‘sale, transfer, production, and importation’ of semi-automatic rifles and pistols that can hold a detachable magazine, as well as semi-automatic rifles with a magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds. Additionally, the legislation bans the sale, transfer, production, and importation of semi-automatic shotguns with features such as a pistol grip or detachable stock, and ammunition feeding devices that can hold more than 10 rounds.” By banning the transfer they are, in effect, creating a delayed ban. As soon as the current owner of a covered firearm (most of those in the US) dies or otherwise is unable to keep the firearm it cannot be passed on to someone else–like ones heirs. That gun is then gone and no more can replace it.

Daryl Fisher (A Democrat candidate for Sheriff in Buncombe County NC): “Any weapon that is designed for use by the military I think we should ban. You’ve heard people say you have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands. [shrugs] OK.” (Up front about willing to kill to take people’s guns.) What is interesting to note is that while my 1893 Argentine Bolt Action (an antique, old enough that it’s not even regulated by the ATF), my Mosin Nagant rifle, and various other bolt actions, including the extremely popular Remingtin 700 have been used by the US and other militaries, that AR-15 is not (the similar appearing M-16 and M-4, both having full auto or “burst” fire that the AR-15 lacks, are different beasts).

Going back in time a bit, to a bill Senator Diane Feinstein introduced in 2013. “‘The purpose is to dry up the supply of these weapons over time,’ Feinstein said. ‘Therefore, there is no sunset on this bill.'” After all, ending transfer of the firearms means that when, for whatever reason (including eventual death) a person cannot own their existing weapon it has to be surrendered. A slow confiscation over time is still a confiscation.

“But nobody wants to take our guns?”

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by ReelinRod

And that's what the left just doesn't get.

Redefining, reworking and remolding the original, fundamental, pre-existing, never surrendered right to arms is not within the purview of any court or legislature.


Scalia expands on this principle multiple times in Heller:

"The very enumeration of the right takes out of the hands of government—even the Third Branch of Government—the power to decide on a case-by-case basis whether the right is really worth insisting upon. A constitutional guarantee subject to future judges’ assessments of its usefulness is no constitutional guarantee at all. Constitutional rights are enshrined with the scope they were understood to have when the people adopted them, whether or not future legislatures or (yes) even future judges think that scope too broad."

And that scope of protection, of prohibiting government gaining a foothold to restrain the right, is not diminished with time, technological advancements or especially, the aggrandizing opinion of liberals about being enlightened and unburdened by the framer's intent.

"Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, . . . and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, . . . the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding."
(internal citations removed)

"Undoubtedly some think that the Second Amendment is outmoded in a society where our standing army is the pride of our Nation, where well-trained police forces provide personal security, and where gun violence is a serious problem. That is perhaps debatable, but what is not debatable is that it is not the role of this Court to pronounce the Second Amendment extinct."

While the right to arms is not an "unlimited" right, that doesn't mean that government's constitutional ability to restrain the right is limitless:

" . . . the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table."

.

The unqualified notion that constitutional rights are not absolute opens the door to limiting those rights. And it does so in a way that infers there need not be any end to further limitations.

Without specifically delineating how those rights are limited, and in what way they do have a claim to being absolute, leaves the uninformed with the impression that there are no limits to abridging any right so long as there is a compelling government interest to do so.

As Scalia said "A constitutional guarantee subject to future judges’ assessments of its usefulness is no constitutional guarantee at all." And yet we have this widespread acceptance of Progressive jurisprudence which thrives on the judicial practice of "interpreting" the Constitution via a Judge's opinion of what the text "should" mean in the light of his view of what is "just" in present circumstance. Which essentially concedes that there are no constitutional guarantees. That there are only rights promulgated by judicial opinion.