So it has started

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

All you had to say is that you dont like a vision of the world that does not mirror your own... thats not contempt , as for discussions I have had none with you. I am sorry if you consider calling you out on your Snipes for what they .. as dictating the boundaries of the forum I guess we agree to disagree...

Feel free to carry on with your nonsense with the understanding that I may contribute on occasion.
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[Sea Dangles]

Hence, the exercise in futility
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[PaulS]

Is Pres Trump going to put an occupation force into Chicago? Seems he threatened something like that.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Is Pres Trump going to put an occupation force into Chicago? Seems he threatened something like that.

If the mayor is too incompetent to do anything, and innocent people are being slaughtered as a result, should the POTUS do nothing? Obama did nothing to help Chicago, and the data shows that didn't work out so well.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If the mayor is too incompetent to do anything, and innocent people are being slaughtered as a result, should the POTUS do nothing? Obama did nothing to help Chicago, and the data shows that didn't work out so well.

So what should the mayor do? Where do most of the guns in Chicago come from?

Can Trump send in the occupying force he seems to be threatening to send in? I woud assume it would have to be the Army as the National Guard prob. doesn't have enough men.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So what should the mayor do?.

Maybe he should ask Rudy...
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Maybe he should ask Rudy...
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Ding ding ding!!! But Rahm will watch his citizens die to the last man, before he asks Rudy for help.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Maybe he should ask Rudy...
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What would Rudy tell him?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So what should the mayor do? Where do most of the guns in Chicago come from?

Can Trump send in the occupying force he seems to be threatening to send in? I woud assume it would have to be the Army as the National Guard prob. doesn't have enough men.

"So what should the mayor do?"

Gee, I dunno Paul.

Oh wait, yes I do. How about trying what we all know, worked like a charm, in New York City, when Guilani took over? Aggressive policing, tough strict sentences for gun offenders. But that's not the liberal way. Stop-and-frisk hurts too many people's feelings, and it's racist that so many blacks are in jail. So let's leave them alone and bury a thousand innocent black people every year, sacrificed on the altar of liberalism. If we can't abort them all out of existence, we can let them kill each other off.

Rahm Emanuel tried textbook liberalism, and I don't know a single human being who would say with a straight face that it worked, especially now that Spence isn't here.

Rudy cleaned up NYC. That cannot be denied. Why can't we say that out loud, and use his tactics as a blueprint?

"Where do most of the guns in Chicago come from?"

I presume from outside of the city. So what? All that shows, is that gun laws are impotent in the face of how many guns are currently out there. So unless you have a plan to confiscate all the guns currently out there, why would you expect go-forward gun laws to have much effect?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"So what should the mayor do?"

Gee, I dunno Paul.

Oh wait, yes I do. How about trying what we all know, worked like a charm, in New York City, when Guilani took over? Aggressive policing, tough strict sentences for gun offenders. But that's not the liberal way. Stop-and-frisk hurts Wasn't that ruled unconstitutional and racially discriminating?too many people's feelings that lack of conservative empathy keeps rearing its ugly head., and it's racist that so many blacks are in jail. So let's leave them alone and bury a thousand innocent black people every yeaWow, almost every thread with you comes back to blacksr, sacrificed on the altar of liberalism. If we can't abort them all out of existence, we can let them kill each other off.

Rahm Emanuel tried textbook liberalism, and I don't know a single human being who would say with a straight face that it worked, especially now that Spence isn't here.But it has worked in other places. So pick out the aberration and apply it to all (hasn't this been a very common theme with you?

Rudy cleaned up NYC. That cannot be denied. Why can't we say that out loud, and use his tactics as a blueprint

So what tactics? Stop and Frisk?

Can you post any studies that showed it was effective?

Why did crime start going down in other states and countries that didn't do the unconstitutional stop and frisk?

When did crime start going down and when did Rudy implement stop and frisk?

Did the crime rate go back up after they stopped stop and frisk?

[Nebe]

Give everyone in Chicago guns. There will be 1 month of natural selection and then complete peace.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Give everyone in Chicago guns. There will be 1 month of natural selection and then complete peace.
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I don't know that anyone says that handing out guns is the answer. What I would say (and I think the evidence suggests that I am right), is that liberals are wrong when they claim that tough gun laws are the answer. If Chicago tells us anything, it's that gun restrictions don't always lead to less gun violence.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Give everyone in Chicago guns. There will be 1 month of natural selection and then complete peace.
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Sounds like a plan. And then he will have an excuse to send in the occupation force that PaulS mentioned to mow down whoever is left standing. With Chicago totally eliminated, the Repubs will have a good shot (pun intended) to win the Illinois electoral votes.

You guys should tweet Trump with the great suggestions, including the bombs dropping that Nebe mentioned. Then he can get to work misogynistically eliminating women, create race wars to get rid of the other blacks and (with the new expanded definition of racism) and the Mexicans and Muslims. Wow. Win bigly.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Sounds like a plan. And then he will have an excuse to send in the occupation force that PaulS mentioned to mow down whoever is left standing. With Chicago totally eliminated, the Repubs will have a good shot (pun intended) to win the Illinois electoral votes.

You guys should tweet Trump with the great suggestions, including the bombs dropping that Nebe mentioned. Then he can get to work misogynistically eliminating women, create race wars to get rid of the other blacks and (with the new expanded definition of racism) and the Mexicans and Muslims. Wow. Win bigly.

Maybe the CIA can import some cocaine and release it on the streets of Chicago so thugs can smoke more crack. Then they will start thinning the herds. Wait... they already did that.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Maybe the CIA can import some cocaine and release it on the streets of Chicago so thugs can smoke more crack. Then they will start thinning the herds. Wait... they already did that.
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Apparently the CIA plan to thin the herds didn't work. Seems like the CIA just keeps getting everything wrong. Maybe that's why Trump questions their work. Anyway, we are told that Trump and the CIA do not get along. So, I guess he won't be able to have them import more cocaine into the streets of Chicago.

[Nebe]

Right now only the non law abiding thugs own guns in Chicago. Arm em all. Then come in to clean up the mess.
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[Nebe]

Jim it's sounding like I am the conservative here.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Jim it's sounding like I am the conservative here.
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I thought you were being sarcastic. I was wrong!

I'm no right wing nut when it comes to guns. But I do like the constitution...

[Nebe]

I'm pro gun. We should all have them. Open carry for all.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I'm pro gun. We should all have them. Open carry for all.
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you look a little silly wearing a vagina hat and holding a gun

"I'ma here to take back ma reproductive rights"

"You'll shoot yer IUD out kid"

[PaulS]

What did Pres. Trump say last night about how he was gonna help Chicago? Grants to hire more police like Clinton did, an occupying army, or was he just going to browbeat the criminals into stopping?

[PaulS]

He could call Rudy but he could call a lot of other mayors since the crime rate went down all across the country (and othe countries also). I'm sure that many of the things that those cities did where and are being tried in Chicago. I think Chicago is an aberration.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

He could call Rudy but he could call a lot of other mayors since the crime rate went down all across the country (and othe countries also). I'm sure that many of the things that those cities did where and are being tried in Chicago. I think Chicago is an aberration.

You don't think the crime rate went down in NYC, any more than it did anywhere else? Are you incapable of admitting that not all Republicans are evil and stupid? Are you serious? The man saved thousands of lives, and most of the lives saved, were black. He also oversaw the prosecution and imprisonment of dozens of corrupt cops.

"I think Chicago is an aberration"

How can we know that what worked in NYC won't work in Chicago, unless we try? And if Chicago is an aberration, what does that say about, for example, the community organizers there?

"Wasn't that ruled unconstitutional and racially discriminating"

DiBlasio stopped doing it. I don't know that anyone ruled it was unconstitutional. What I do know (because I can accept facts regardless of whether or not they support my agenda) is that it worked.

"that lack of conservative empathy keeps rearing its ugly head"

Empathy? For gang bangers who made New York uninhabitable? I'll save my empathy for the innocent people trying to live there.

"it (liberalism) has worked in other places."

In poor, inner cities? In all seriousness, where? Hartford? Bridgeport? New Haven? Baltimore? Philadelphia? Chicago may be an outlier in terms of absolute numbers, it's not all by itself in terms of being an example of urban failure.

"Wow, almost every thread with you comes back to blacks"

OK. So when I say it's bad that blacks are getting murdered in Chicago, that makes me a racist in your eyes. Got it. That's just brilliant Paul.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You don't think the crime rate went down in NYC, any more than it did anywhere else? It may have but it went down across the country. And that includes areas that didn't do stop and frisk.Are you incapable of admitting that not all Republicans are evil and stupid? I've frequently voted for Rs (both Bushs 1st term for example) HA HA, you're the one who constantly finds something that gets under your skin that is done by a liberal and then comes here crying about how evil all liberals are. I've just decided to do the same or to show you that conservatives are the same. Are you serious? The man saved thousands of lives, and most of the lives saved, were black. He also oversaw the prosecution and imprisonment of dozens of corrupt cops.

"I think Chicago is an aberration"

How can we know that what worked in NYC won't work in Chicago, unless we try? So you hate the constitution since it was declared unconstitutional? And if Chicago is an aberration, what does that say about, for example, the community organizers there?

"Wasn't that ruled unconstitutional and racially discriminating"

DiBlasio stopped doing it. I don't know that anyone ruled it was unconstitutionalLook it up. What I do know (because I can accept facts regardless of whether or not they support my agenda) is that it workedPls. show me a study saying the drop in crime in NY was bc of stop and frisk. I'd appreciate you showing me any study that showed no other methods would have worked. .

"that lack of conservative empathy keeps rearing its ugly head"

Empathy? For gang bangers who made New York uninhabitable? I'll save my empathy for the innocent people trying to live there.You mean like the people who get stopped and frisked for doing nothing other than being black? You don't seem to understand how being stopped repeatedly for no reason other than being black could get some pissed off.

"it (liberalism) has worked in other places."

In poor, inner cities? In all seriousness, where? Hartford? Bridgeport? New Haven? Baltimore? Philadelphia? Portland, Seattle, NY, Charlotte and many more cities. In a capitalistic society you have some poor, some middle class and some weatlhy. The liberals have policies to assist the poor so the poor support liberals. The conservatives policies are for the poor to lift himself up. Chicago may be an outlier in terms of absolute numbers, it's not all by itself in terms of being an example of urban failure.

"Wow, almost every thread with you comes back to blacks"

OK. So when I say it's bad that blacks are getting murdered in Chicago, that makes me a racist in your eyes. not at all but am I incorrect to note you do bring up blacks a lot?Got it. That's just brilliant Paul.

Any answers to the questions I had at the end of my earlier response?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Any answers to the questions I had at the end of my earlier response?

Can you re-state the questions? Not sure what you are referring to, but I don't dodge.

"You don't seem to understand how being stopped repeatedly for no reason other than being black could get some pissed off."

I absolutely understand it. But what YOU don't understand, is that it's better to deal with the occasional indignity and be alive, than to be left alone to be murdered.

A judge did deem stop and frisk to be unconstitutional. A judge once also declared slavery to not be unconstitutional. Judges make monumental mistakes. It worked.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Can you re-state the questions? Not sure what you are referring to, but I don't dodge.see below

"You don't seem to understand how being stopped repeatedly for no reason other than being black could get some pissed off."

I absolutely understand it. But what YOU don't understand, is that it's better to deal with the occasional indignity and be alive, than to be left alone to be murdered.But the people in those neighbor hoods don't want it. Frankly, you or I will never be stopped nor hopefully never have to deal with the crime in those areas. Other cities have tried other crime prevention tech. that have worked. I don't know what Chicago has or has not done but why not try the least painful for the people who just want to get up and go to work/school rather than try something those people don't want?

A judge did deem stop and frisk to be unconstitutional. A judge once also declared slavery to not be unconstitutional. Judges make monumental mistakes. It worked.

Can you post any studies that showed it was effective?

Why did crime start going down in other states and countries that didn't do the unconstitutional stop and frisk?

When did crime start going down and when did Rudy implement stop and frisk?

Did the crime rate go back up after they stopped stop and frisk?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Any answers to the questions I had at the end of my earlier response?

Assuming you mean these...

So what tactics? Stop and Frisk? yes, I mean anything that Rudy did to help bring the violent crime down.

Can you post any studies that showed it was effective? Crime went way down during his tenure. In your words, "look it up". I took your advice and looked up stop and frisk, and saw that you were right, a judge declared it unconstitutional.

Why did crime start going down in other states and countries that didn't do the unconstitutional stop and frisk? Probably because starting with Pres Clinton, we finally figured it would be a good idea to start locking up violent criminals instead of feeling sorry for them. I'm not a criminologist. Funny, you see no correlation between who was in charge and the results. I presume then, that you don't blame Bush for the economic crash, nor do you credit Obama for the rebound? Or are you selective with such things?

When did crime start going down and when did Rudy implement stop and frisk? Again, in your words, look it up. You didn't spoon feed it to me, I won't to you. Fair or unfair?

Did the crime rate go back up after they stopped stop and frisk? Don't know. If it didn't, that proves nothing, because crime could still be down because of the people he put away who are still behind bars.

We get it...you are opposed to proactively trying to identify people who are carrying guns in urban areas. Good for you!! Let's just wait for the day when the bad guys all turn themselves in. Until then, we'll keep burying innocent victims.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Assuming you mean these...

So what tactics? Stop and Frisk? yes, I mean anything that Rudy did to help bring the violent crime down.

Can you post any studies that showed it was effective? Crime went way down during his tenure. In your words, "look it up". I took your advice and looked up stop and frisk, and saw that you were right, a judge declared it unconstitutional.

Why did crime start going down in other states and countries that didn't do the unconstitutional stop and frisk? Probably because starting with Pres Clinton, we finally figured it would be a good idea to start locking up violent criminals instead of feeling sorry for them. I'm not a criminologist. Funny, you see no correlation between who was in charge and the resultsno, I do see correlations. Correlation is not causation. Clinton put more $ into having cops on the street and that was 1 (of prob. many) reasons crime went down.. I presume then, that you don't blame Bush for the economic crash, nor do you credit Obama for the rebound? Or are you selective with such things?

When did crime start going down and when did Rudy implement stop and frisk? Again, in your words, look it up. You didn't spoon feed it to me, I won't to you. Fair or unfair? Crime started going down nationally years before Rudy was elected Mayor.

Did the crime rate go back up after they stopped stop and frisk? Don't know. If it didn't, that proves nothing, because crime could still be down because of the people he put away who are still behind bars. for 4 of the last 5 years stops went way down (until the program was abandoned) and crime continued to go down. I believe crime went back up last year.

We get it...you are opposed to proactively trying to identify people who are carrying guns in urban areas. Good for you!! Let's just wait for the day when the bad guys all turn themselves in. Until then, we'll keep burying innocent victims.

nm

[The Dad Fisherman]

The reason race was brought into this is because we were talking about the violence in Chicago, where the majority of the victims are black.

you do know its not racist to actually try and have an adult discussion and have the races of people brought into the discussion.


"Over the Labor Day weekend, Chicago hit that tragic number: 500 homicides.

Nearly all of those killed were black men, shot to death in alleys and on street corners by other black men. It's time to have a talk with African-Americans."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...07-column.html

[detbuch]

[Quote=PaulS;1115820]Wasn't that [stop and frisk]ruled unconstitutional and racially discriminating?[QUOTE]

Actually, stop and frisk was interpreted as constitutional in the 1968 Terry v. Ohio decision. "This decision held that a limited search for weapons is permitted when an officer reasonably suspects that the stopped person could be armed. Generally, it established the constitutional practice of what we know as stop and frisk, or Terry stops, by police officers."

The unconstitutional ruling to which you refer, I believe, is that it was misusing the tactic because it was targeting mostly Blacks or Latinos. That is, it was unconstitutionally using the practice in a racially discriminating manner. But it did not rule that "stop and frisk" is unconstitutional.

Detroit can use the "broken windows" theory that Giuliani used (which incorporated stop and frisk) because the city is over 80% Black and a good portion of the rest of the population is Latino. It is difficult to prove racial bias against minorities when the population is massively "minority."

The crime rate has gone down under the present Police Chief, James Craig, who practices the "broken windows" policy. Don't know if it would have gone down if he didn't.