New Presidential (HA) Recruiter

[PaulS]

He has betrayed our ideals, America does not treat human beings with such utter contempt, we’ve never had such an indifference to others’ welfare and never inflicted such needless pain and suffering. Why are the Saudi’s or UAE excluded? Trump does not have a shred of empathy or compassion. He has only an insecure ego, quick to be insulted and to insult.

[Jim in CT]

I get the whole "they will use this as a recruiting tool", but how do we stop that? Are we supposed to give ISIS everything they want, to deny them recruiting propaganda?

I have no doubt they will use this to recruit. I am sure they used the killing of Bin Laden as a recruiting tool, but I didn't hear anyone complain about that.

We don't win this war by appeasing the jihadists. I know that much.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

He has betrayed our ideals, America does not treat human beings with such utter contempt, we’ve never had such an indifference to others’ welfare and never inflicted such needless pain and suffering. Why are the Saudi’s or UAE excluded? Trump does not have a shred of empathy or compassion. He has only an insecure ego, quick to be insulted and to insult.

Paul S, WDMSO...

Obama banned refugees from war-torn Iraq for 6 months, no one on the left went berserk about what he was doing. Bill Clinton banned immigration from war-torn Sierra Leone, no one went berserk about what he was doing.

A temporary ban, until we can figure out how to do it safely. Seems very, very consistent with the oath he just took. I don't like the ban, I especially don't like the religious litmus test. But if it was OK when Obama and Bill Clinton did it, I can only think of reason for the uproar over Trump doing the same thing.

WDMSO: "the ban was just to feed the base their hunk of red meat..
"

So what was it, when Obama and Bill Clinton did it?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So what was it, when Obama and Bill Clinton did it?

brilliant strategy

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

brilliant strategy

And even worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize, apparently.

Nope, no double standard.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So what was it, when Obama and Bill Clinton did it?

I was talking about Trump in general and not specifically to the recent ban but I believe that there was never a 'ban" by Obama. If I remember correctly, we discovered someone who had been admitted from Iraq was later found to have some terrorist connection or something similiar so they decided to look at all of the people who were previously admitted and to impose new harsher checks and that delayed those in the pipeline. I think the entry of green card and visa holders was not impacted also.

Trump claimed he discussed it w/various departments (state, homeland, etc) and they have all said he didn't.

So the slow down w/Obama was as a result of an actual incident while Trump's is not.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I was talking about Trump in general and not specifically to the recent ban but I believe that there was never a 'ban" by Obama. If I remember correctly, we discovered someone who had been admitted from Iraq was later found to have some terrorist connection or something similiar so they decided to look at all of the people who were previously admitted and to impose new harsher checks and that delayed those in the pipeline. I think the entry of green card and visa holders was not impacted also.

Trump claimed he discussed it w/various departments (state, homeland, etc) and they have all said he didn't.

So the slow down w/Obama was as a result of an actual incident while Trump's is not.

"I believe that there was never a 'ban" by Obama."

A 6-month moratorium. Look it up. http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2...rrorism-fears/

"Obama was as a result of an actual incident while Trump's is not"

Oh, I see! So according to you, then, it's better to wait until after an incident happens and then respond, than it is to prevent a terrorist incident. I'd rather stop the incident before it happens.

This is a brutal problem Paul. Like it or not, Trump's first priority is the welfare of Americans over the welfare of anyone else. That's not always easy. If Trump did this because he is a bigot, shame on him. If he did this because he genuinely feels there is a risk to letting refugees in, well then, that sounds an awful lot like what Obama and Clinton did. And that didn't stop Obama and Clinton from becoming liberal heroes.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"I believe that there was never a 'ban" by Obama."

A 6-month moratorium. Look it up. http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2...rrorism-fears/Breitbart find another source - one that is honest. As I said it did not effect people w/green cards or visas like this did.

"Obama was as a result of an actual incident while Trump's is not"

Oh, I see! So according to you, then, it's better to wait until after an incident happens and then respond, than it is to prevent a terrorist incident. I'd rather stop the incident before it happens.Increased vetting was put into place after that incident to prevent future incidents (which have not happened).

This is a brutal problem Paul. Like it or not, Trump's first priority is the welfare of Americans over the welfare of anyone else. That's not always easy. If Trump did this because he is a bigot, shame on him. If he did this because he genuinely feels there is a risk to letting refugees in, well then, that sounds an awful lot like what Obama and Clinton did. And that didn't stop Obama and Clinton from becoming liberal heroes.

Do some research and you will see it is VASTLY different from what Obama did. You're getting your info. from a source that has been dishonest in the past.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Do some research and you will see it is VASTLY different from what Obama did. You're getting your info. from a source that has been dishonest in the past.

"Do some research and you will see it is VASTLY different from what Obama did"

How so, Paul? I made my claim, I supported it with a link.

I figured you'd like my source. When 95% of the media won't report anything that makes Obama look anything less than perfect, the options do get limited. If The New York Times took their profession seriously, they would have reported on it. I haven't heard anyone (except you) deny that Obama implemented a ban. Yes, the ban was enacted after it was alleged that terrorists had smuggled themselves in with the refugees. Seems to me, that alone, suggests Trump has a point.

Isn't it better to be proactive than reactive, when it comes to terrorism? You made it sound like waiting until after the incident happened, is the better way to go.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Do some research and you will see it is VASTLY different from what Obama did"

How so, Paul? I made my claim, I supported it with a link.

.

I told you - visas and greencards. Plus Pres. Trump said he was going to give preference to Christians.

Even his VP said it wasn't right -

In 12/15 Pence said
Calls to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. are offensive and unconstitutional.
— Governor Mike Pence (@GovPenceIN) December 8, 2015

from a quick search.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.341c13bbba5f



http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/...migration-ban/

http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/barack...n-immigration/

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Increased vetting was put into place after that incident to prevent future incidents (which have not happened).

I guess these don't count....

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/u...re-missed.html

http://nypost.com/2016/11/28/active-...te-university/

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I guess these don't count....

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/u...re-missed.html

http://nypost.com/2016/11/28/active-...te-university/

Where those 2 from Iraq?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

He has betrayed our ideals,

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

He has betrayed our ideals, America does not treat human beings with such utter contempt, we’ve never had such an indifference to others’ welfare and never inflicted such needless pain and suffering. Why are the Saudi’s or UAE excluded? Trump does not have a shred of empathy or compassion. He has only an insecure ego, quick to be insulted and to insult.

"He has betrayed our ideals"

Then so did Obama and Bill Clinton, who did the same thing.

"America does not treat human beings with such utter contempt"

So when Obama bombs Muslims with drones, you are OK with that. But it violates our ideals, to ensure that immigrants are vetted.

"we’ve never had such an indifference to others’ welfare "

I believe Obama was in charge when he chose to do absolutely nothing after Assad gassed these people. Where was your outrage at that indifference?

"never inflicted such needless pain and suffering"

again, Obama banned immigration from Iraq, and Bill Clinton banned immigration from Sierra Leone, both cases because of security threats. There was exactly zero liberal outrage over those bans. No one cared.

"Trump does not have a shred of empathy or compassion"

I don't like the guy Paul. But he's not Darth Vader either. Here is one of many, many things I could post.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrBT...5webiUCJyOrBM-

"He has only an insecure ego, quick to be insulted and to insult"

That I agree with. The rest, not so much.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

He has betrayed our ideals,

No he has not.

America does not treat human beings with such utter contempt,

His ban is not based on contempt. Nor is it an act of contempt.

we’ve never had such an indifference to others’ welfare and never inflicted such needless pain and suffering.

Yes we have. Many times throughout our history. And have done so to our own as well. And your notion of it being "needless" is not accurate.

Why are the Saudi’s or UAE excluded?

Do you want them to be?

Trump does not have a shred of empathy or compassion.

Of course he does. You are telling a contemptuous lie.

He has only an insecure ego, quick to be insulted and to insult.

He seems to have a big ego. Doesn't sound insecure. He stands up to both parties and the media without fear. Which is why so many Americans like him-- a lot of Americans who have felt insulted, ignored, and treated with contempt by establishment politicians, the Press, and opinion mongers who characterize them with baseless, unwarranted, negative accusations such as homophobes, misogynists, racists, mean spirited, closed minded, stupid, crass troglodytes, bitter clingers, Xenophobes, deplorable, and endless other ad hoc labels. Neither you, nor the elites, nor the Press seem to get it. That is a major reason why he got elected. And as you all continue to keep calling them the same things, including the laughable "un-American," the more they will support Trump.

If you want them to abandon Trump, give all Americans, not just the ones you like, the respect they deserve.

He may be quick to insult those who insult him. That's OK with me. I am not a turn your other cheek guy. And its more than OK with the "deplorables."