Charlottesville

[wdmso]

So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement (seems the silent Majority is in Plan view now ) Mr Trump condemned violence by "many sides" - but stopped short of explicitly condemning the far-right.

Republican Senator Cory Gardner said "Mr. President - we must call evil by its name."

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
Their tiki torches may be fueled by citronella but their ideas are fueled by hate, & have no place in civil society. https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/st...89794778218496 …

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

Trump just missed another chance.. Sad he so is weak he cant even be speak against the Nazi Flag in America

[Got Stripers]

Trump is still campaigning, why would he anger the people he looked to for getting out to the polls during the run for office?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement

So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were?

(seems the silent Majority is in Plan view now ) Mr Trump condemned violence by "many sides" - but stopped short of explicitly condemning the far-right.

If he condemned violence by many sides, why should he explicitly condemn one side?

Trump just missed another chance.. Sad he so is weak he cant even be speak against the Nazi Flag in America

I assume the Nazi side was included in the "many sides" which he condemned.

BTW, I don't think Trump has specifically sided with any race. I don't believe he has expressed a "white lives matter" point of view.

For many on the "white" side, the decades long criticism and portrayal of them as being racist, and the never ending social set asides and preferential treatment for "minorities" and the seemingly entrenched rhetoric of white guilt accompanied by the assumed purity of minorities from racism, hate, and bigotry, has created a backlash. That backlash was dormant and possibly growing in intensity, and was probably brought closer to the surface by Obama's failure to create the anticipated racial unity as a result of his election. Instead, he egged on the white guilt and black innocence trip.

And it really started to ignite when Trump's rallies were so often disrupted by the SJW's trying to portray him as a racist, bigot, homophobe, and all the other phobes. And further ignited when right wingers. were shut down from speaking on college campuses by the SJW's and BLM's, aided by other left wingers.

If Obama would have equally condemned all "sides," maybe the chit would not have been hitting the fan as it is now.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I assume the Nazi side was included in the "many sides" which he condemned.

BTW, I don't think Trump has specifically sided with any race. I don't believe he has expressed a "white lives matter" point of view.

For many on the "white" side, the decades long criticism and portrayal of them as being racist, and the never ending social set asides and preferential treatment for "minorities" and the seemingly entrenched rhetoric of white guilt accompanied by the assumed purity of minorities from racism, hate, and bigotry, has created a backlash. That backlash was dormant and possibly growing in intensity, and was probably brought closer to the surface by Obama's failure to create the anticipated racial unity as a result of his election. Instead, he egged on the white guilt and black innocence trip.

And it really started to ignite when Trump's rallies were so often disrupted by the SJW's trying to portray him as a racist, bigot, homophobe, and all the other phobes. And further ignited when right wingers. were shut down from speaking on college campuses by the SJW's and BLM's, aided by other left wingers.

If Obama would have equally condemned all "sides," maybe the chit would not have been hitting the fan as it is now.

Thats funny blame the Black guy

So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were? I am not saying anything... I am asking if people felt Obama was at fault for BLM is Trump going to be Held to the same Standard

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by detbuch

And it really started to ignite when Trump's rallies were so often disrupted by the SJW's trying to portray him as a racist, bigot, homophobe, and all the other phobes. And further ignited when right wingers. were shut down from speaking on college campuses by the SJW's and BLM's, aided by other left wingers.

Would have been nice if the coverage was equal to but the media made Trump out to be the bad guy and the rioters at his rally as nice normal people pushed into rage because of Trump.

Even with yesterday's H O R R I B L E Neo Nazis/WhiteSupremecist/KLAN azzholes it was NeoNazis -v- "Counter Protesters", not Antifa, not much was peaceful about it for either side. But that is what happens with identity politics - AND media coverage.

Originally Posted by detbuch

If Obama would have equally condemned all "sides," maybe the chit would not have been hitting the fan as it is now.

Yes, he should have but he didn't. Ironically a lot of us called him out for it and being vague, Trump was vague enough yesterday too. He could have been more direct at putting the Klan/NN/WhiteSuprems in check but he didn't.

Yesterday was Effing Horrible, but it should not come as any surprise because it has happened in the past with those groups, and it has happened in the past and the more recent past with Antifa/BLM/WWP.

Neither is acceptable and neither should be ignored.

[boot man]

I remember when I was younger and it was pretty easy to see unanimity when it came to condemning the actions of Nazis and White Supremacists...I miss those days.

Nobody said it was okay because their were also groups committing violent acts (black panthers, weather underground, etc.). These groups were also condemned for their violent acts. Hard to imagine.
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[scottw]

I guess I don't understand the need to give these deplorables the two things that they are seeking when they hold these get togethers...attention and conflict....the media provides the attention and the counter protesters provide the opportunity for conflict.....

wouldn't it be best for them to show up and everyone ignore them so that they could then go back to whatever holes they crawled out of with none of what they sought?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Thats funny blame the Black guy

I didn't actually blame anybody. I suggested that if Obama had condemned all sides equally, then we might not have gotten this far along the road to where Americans are openly physically at war with each other. Maybe there is nothing he could have said to keep violence under wraps. I do question his open, avowed, support of BLM in contrast to a willingness to criticize racism (whites) and police for the plight of blacks in America.

And I certainly didn't blame the Black guy. I questioned the action, or lack of it, by the President of the United States and the effect that might have had on the present violence. Your little jab is part of and a demonstration of the difficulty in having an honest discussion about racial views. In your view "blaming" Obama automatically equates to blaming the Black guy.

So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were? I am not saying anything... I am asking if people felt Obama was at fault for BLM is Trump going to be Held to the same Standard

Perhaps I misunderstood what the standard is in your statement. It seemed to me that when you said--"So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement"--the only standard you presented was fault or blame. It also implied to me that you believed the same "standard" should be held for both. That is if one is held to be at fault, so should the other, or, if one is not held to be at fault, then so should the other not be blamed. Your statement also implies that if the same standard, fault or not at fault, is not held for both, that would be hypocritical, ergo, wrong. Which all leads me to believe that you think they should be held to the same standard--both at fault or neither at fault. Which led me to ask "So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were?" Am I wrong in my assumptions and in my question? If so, I apologize. It could be that you have no dog in that hunt, don't care one way or the other, that you're just curious?

BTW, it could be that one was at fault and the other wasn't. Why must it be given that if one is at fault the other must also be? What is the "standard" being held to if one is blameworthy and the other isn't? Would that be actual words and support given by either Obama or Trump? Didn't Obama actually support and defend BLM? Did Trump actually support or defend Nazi's? Obama is blamed for what he actually said about groups, including police and "racists" (whites). Trump is blamed for what he has not said about certain groups. Trump blamed various people for disrupting his rallies. Should he have praised them for doing so, or just shut up about it even though others including politicians and the media were blaming his rallies for provoking the violence being perpetrated against themselves? In the end what Trump said was a condemnation for "all sides." Does that, or is that going to, inspire more violence as many of those whom you are questioning believe Obama's words inspired BLM violence?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Perhaps I misunderstood what the standard is in your statement. It seemed to me that when you said--"So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement"--the only standard you presented was fault or blame. It also implied to me that you believed the same "standard" should be held for both. That is if one is held to be at fault, so should the other, or, if one is not held to be at fault, then so should the other not be blamed. Your statement also implies that if the same standard, fault or not at fault, is not held for both, that would be hypocritical, ergo, wrong. Which all leads me to believe that you think they should be held to the same standard--both at fault or neither at fault. Which led me to ask "So are you saying that both were at fault or that neither were?" Am I wrong in my assumptions and in my question? If so, I apologize. It could be that you have no dog in that hunt, don't care one way or the other, that you're just curious?

BTW, it could be that one was at fault and the other wasn't. Why must it be given that if one is at fault the other must also be? What is the "standard" being held to if one is blameworthy and the other isn't? Would that be actual words and support given by either Obama or Trump? Didn't Obama actually support and defend BLM? Did Trump actually support or defend Nazi's? Obama is blamed for what he actually said about groups, including police and "racists" (whites). Trump is blamed for what he has not said about certain groups. Trump blamed various people for disrupting his rallies. Should he have praised them for doing so, or just shut up about it even though others including politicians and the media were blaming his rallies for provoking the violence being perpetrated against themselves? In the end what Trump said was a condemnation for "all sides." Does that, or is that going to, inspire more violence as many of those whom you are questioning believe Obama's words inspired BLM violence?

You need to ask those who Blamed or found fault in Obama for the Rise of the BLM movement . I would think that those who did and do so now would be able to to identify Similarities between Obamas support and rise of BLM and Trump and rise ( re birth ) and support of White Nationalist ..

I can say I have ever seen Such a rally of white nationalist with weapons Gas mask shields and other things .

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

[PaulS]

When our President doesn’t (repeatedly) condemn white supremacists, the KKK, white nationalists, alt right can he be considered a real American or a President for all?

He has someone at his right hand who said in his previous job he was “giving the alt right” a platform. He started his rise to the presidency by question Pres. Obama’s birth.

He has been strangely quite (other to blame both sides equally) – maybe he is finally finishing the secret strategy he promised us to defeat ISIS or is finally finishing the report showing how President Obama “tapped” his phones.

Members of his own party and family have quickly and firmly condemn the hate shown Sat.

Maybe now it is finally clear to all who possess even a limited intelligence what type of person he really is.

What a sad few days.

[Nebe]

Make America Hate Agian.
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[JohnR]

Trump is an ass, a buffoon, a fool, and a narcissist. I am still not sure he is worse than Hillary.

Both the current Admin and the previous Admin should have been very firm and very clear early on that the extremist groups and beliefs on both sides: NeoNazi/WhiteSupreme on right and BLM, Antifa, WWP, NBPP (how many did I miss?).

None are acceptable.

Originally Posted by scottw

wouldn't it be best for them to show up and everyone ignore them so that they could then go back to whatever holes they crawled out of with none of what they sought?

Ding, ding, ding!

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You need to ask those who Blamed or found fault in Obama for the Rise of the BLM movement . I would think that those who did and do so now would be able to to identify Similarities between Obamas support and rise of BLM and Trump and rise ( re birth ) and support of White Nationalist ..

So now you switch from fault or blame for the movements to the rise of them--the moving goal post technique. And not only moving the goal post in the case of Trump's "blame," but further qualifying "rise" to "rebirth."

The criticism of Obama was not, if I recall correctly, that he actually created BLM, but that he supported and defended it. Whatever similarity you see between Trump and Obama re the movements, Trump did not support or defend white nationalism.

I can say I have ever seen Such a rally of white nationalist with weapons Gas mask shields and other things .

The wearing of defensive gadgets has been done by movements in the past when they expected to be physically attacked. The so-called alt-righters started to do it when they attended (or tried to attend) speeches by conservatives on college campuses and were physically attacked.

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

That is telling, isn't it? That BLMers didn't expect to be attacked at their rallies.

[scottw]

such remarkably short and selective memories

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

When our President doesn’t (repeatedly) condemn white supremacists, the KKK, white nationalists, alt right can he be considered a real American or a President for all?

He doesn't support those things, and he doesn't repeatedly condemn any specific (hate?) group on any "side." He lumps them all together as being unacceptable.

He has someone at his right hand who said in his previous job he was “giving the alt right” a platform. He started his rise to the presidency by question Pres. Obama’s birth.

The alt right is not exactly what it is portrayed to be by "centrists" or "leftists." For some in the movement it may approach some of that, for others it is not that at all. There are some things in the alt-right movement that should have a platform. It might achieve a balance to the platform given to leftism and its excessive accusations of whites (especially males) and western culture as being the cause of the world's problems.

He has been strangely quite (other to blame both sides equally) – maybe he is finally finishing the secret strategy he promised us to defeat ISIS or is finally finishing the report showing how President Obama “tapped” his phones.

Maybe that quietness needs to be made louder, but if it is, then if he blames one side more than another that might inflame the side which is comparitively overblamed.

Members of his own party and family have quickly and firmly condemn the hate shown Sat.

Has Trump disassociated from their condemnations? No.

Maybe now it is finally clear to all who possess even a limited intelligence what type of person he really is.

What a sad few days.

Your implications are not clarity.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

weapons Gas mask shields and other things .

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

maybe the Protester Apparel Depot was all sold out of vagina hats

[Got Stripers]

Boss what you said, Trump is so FAR from presidential, I'm embarrassed he is at the helm; god help us all if the fog rolls in because he has no moral compass.
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[Raider Ronnie]

The phony media & left is so quick to rush to judgment and pounce on the story the way they want it told.
Some video has now surfaced of his car under attack being beat with baseball bats BEFORE he sped up and also tried to change direction, but left don't want that reported. Not like these protesters ever get violent and their PEACEFUL protests turn to riots and burning down buildings 👀
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I can only imagine if theses same thing were present at BLM rallies .

these guys look ready for battle....and now snowflakes are beating up statues and monuments across the country....good grief...this is good...dress and act like the losers you claim to oppose

[SilverKing]

The "LEFT" got its wish more identity politics and more hate to spew...find a platform.

[JohnR]

I was just watching the news and NBC Today show was stating how there was a new movement to protest racism / hate groups.

They are doxxing those that were there, not unusual and not new, for them to unmask those they don't agree with

Apparently all of the "Counter Protests" are always people reacting to some other influence they don't agree with. They have always protested, more and more violently as of late, Grab your torches and pitchforks (citronella torches not first used by RW Hate groups)

The way the news spins things the left are all counter protesters are good (Antifa, WWP, BLM, Workers/Socialists/Communists) and whatever they are protesting is evil. So regular Americans, that disagree with the left , good people assembling will now be lumped in with real a$$hole hategroups like KKK / Neo Nazis, etc. With the backing and top cover of news media.

So now the organizations (news) that most benefit from the 1stA (Freedom of Press) will promote those that would suppress freedom of speech, assembly, and basic liberty.

Side note: wonder if people outside this country are stirring the pot to screw with us. You have the hard right (NeoNazis) clashing with the hard left (Commies) just like the 1930s. Hmmm, what current hard right country has one foot in the hard right and one in the commie camp, and stands to benefit by a weakened and divided USA??

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by JohnR

The way the news spins things the left are all counter protesters are good (Antifa, WWP, BLM, Workers/Socialists/Communists) and whatever they are protesting is evil. So regular Americans, that disagree with the left , good people assembling will now be lumped in with real a$$hole hategroups like KKK / Neo Nazis, etc. With the backing and top cover of news media.

That is the scariest thing to come out this week, being lumped in with hate groups. Well you have George Soros and the Democratic party to thank for this, all part of their plan. Don't buy into their bull.

GOD FORBID IF HILLARY was president,a compass would not be the tenth thing I would think of if she were president, the Dems are really working at ruining this country.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

That is the scariest thing to come out this week, being lumped in with hate groups. Well you have George Soros and the Democratic party to thank for this, all part of their plan. Don't buy into their bull.

GOD FORBID IF HILLARY was president,a compass would not be the tenth thing I would think of if she were president, the Dems are really working at ruining this country.

Both parties are ruining the county, but This is text book democrat strategy.
Divide & Conquer !
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[Got Stripers]

Hard to say at this point who would be worse, I only hope there are far better choices the next time we elect a president. Small pool of role models for our kids or grandchildren to look up to and aspire to be like. We had the choice of lying, manipulating bitch or thin skinned, reactionary, narcissistic, womanizing bully.
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[scottw]

"On Monday, more than 200 SJW zealots held a protest inside the American Museum of Natural History in New York City to take down the supposedly “racist” statue of former President Theodore Roosevelt. "

[Guppy]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Boss what you said, Trump is so FAR from presidential, I'm embarrassed he is at the helm; god help us all if the fog rolls in because he has no moral compass.
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embarrassed X2, sad sad

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Guppy

embarrassed X2, sad sad

Whp the hell gives a crap about a moral compass!!!
All the friggin corruption that goes on in Washington and you guys are concerned about a moral compass.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement (seems the silent Majority is in Plan view now ) Mr Trump condemned violence by "many sides" - but stopped short of explicitly condemning the far-right.

Republican Senator Cory Gardner said "Mr. President - we must call evil by its name."

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
Their tiki torches may be fueled by citronella but their ideas are fueled by hate, & have no place in civil society. https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/st...89794778218496 …

Senator Hatch Office ✔ @senorrinhatch
We should call evil by its name. My brother didn't give his life fighting Hitler for Nazi ideas to go unchallenged here at home. -OGH

Trump just missed another chance.. Sad he so is weak he cant even be speak against the Nazi Flag in America

"So if Obama is Blamed For BLM movement

I guess Its Trumps fault for the White Nationalist Movement "

Obama repeatedly indicated that the police were at fault, opening his fat mouth before he had the facts. he said the Cambridge police "acted stupidly", and in Ferguson, he lamented that if he had a son, he would look like Michael Brown.

That said, I don't blame Obama for the creation of BLM. For sure, he has emboldened them.

Now, how can you make a similar connection between Trump and White Supremacists? Has he ever expressed any sympathy for white supremacists? Has he ever said "hey, I live in New York City, so I get where you are all saying"?

Trump condemned violence and bigotry from all sides. Would the statement have been more powerful if he specifically mentioned the white supremacists? I believe so, yes. Does his lack of specifically calling them out, imply that he condones anything about them? Hell, no.

Here is the only question that matters. WDMSO, do you believe Trump sympathizes with white supremacists?

[Got Stripers]

Duke just thanked Trump for Trump being Trump. The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again and Trump just fuels the fire with his inability to lead. Just hard to believe millions were systematically murdered by the Nazis and this president has to have tons of pressure brought to bear on him before he even tries (to late arse hole) to condemn them for what they are. Yes there were probably idiots on both sides of the lines, but for the president to not immediately take a leadership role and condemn these groups for what they are is just so sad. Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

When our President doesn’t (repeatedly) condemn white supremacists, .

When, exactly, did he not condemn the white supremacists? When he said he condemned bigotry and violence on all sides, are you suggesting he meant "all sides, except when Nazis do it, in which case it's OK"?

He's a terrible, terrible speaker, which is a rotten trait in a POTUS. But to say he didn't condemn them, just because his statement was more broad than specific? That's quite a stretch.