Roy Moore / Al Franken

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by scottw

funny when someone writes "illegal"..then completely ignores the meaning of the word

I wasn't ignoring the meaning of the word. It is categorically irrelevant. Whether they came here legally or not, it is scapegoating.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I wasn't ignoring the meaning of the word. It is categorically irrelevant. Whether they came here legally or not, it is scapegoating.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

of course it's relevant, if not for the fact that they are here "illegally" there would be no "scapegoating" as you say, no conversation....it's the ONLY reason you or Trump mention them...if they were here "legally"...or not here at all...there would be no issue, no scapegoating, no conversation...you completely ignore the meaning

if pointing out illegality is "scapegoating"
what is ignoring "illegality"?...virtuous?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

He pointed out that Roy Moore "totally denies" sexual misconduct with a string of teenage girls, including a 14-year-old,

Putin also totally denies what he did .. see a trend?

(1) Duke. Lacrosse.

(2) Tawana. Brawley.

I'm not saying I believe Moore is innocent, I'd like to see him step down, and if there's evidence of a crime, let's have a trial.

But you cannot claim that everyone who gets accused of these things, is guilty. In some cases (rare, not rare enough) it's total fabrication, but the media doesn't care about the presumption of innocence when there's a sordid story.

I have no idea what the answer is here.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

out of work coal miners who voted for Trump because they believe he will bring back coal, but pray he doesn't end Obama Care, which is the primary reason they can afford treatment for black lung. Also, the less educated poorer whites in the red States buy into the Trump mantra of creating scape goats of illegal immigrants, etc.
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So before 2008, where were all these dead coal miners you speak of? and now, with the ACA, they can get the treatment they were denied for 100 years until Obama the messiah saved them?

I keep hearing about how many millions of people will die if the ACA is repealed. Why wasn't I stepping over dead bodies when I worked in Hartford, before Obama got elected? These alarmists make it sound like the whole country was one big death camp until the ACA was signed. I'm pretty sure it wasn't.

"Also, the less educated poorer whites in the red States buy into the Trump mantra of creating scape goats of illegal immigrants"

He won because of PA, WI, NC, OH...not because of the deep south.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I keep hearing about how many millions of people will die if the ACA is repealed. Why wasn't I stepping over dead bodies when I worked in Hartford, before Obama got elected?

you were, don't you remember the mantra...people were dying and dead all over the parking lots of hospitals across the country because the system had failed....


I was listening to 10 news conference the other morning and Rappley was interviewing the guy that is going to challenge Whitehouse for his seat...the individual mandate came up and the guest said he was not in favor of federal government mandating such things...Rappley's response was...

"but the cost of health care will go up if young healthy people are not forced to buy coverage"

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I wasn't ignoring the meaning of the word. It is categorically irrelevant. Whether they came here legally or not, it is scapegoating.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No - whether they came here legally or not is the law. I would be up for increasing LEGAL immigration if they could stop the ILLEGAL immigration.

It is ironic people fight for "Justice" yet willfully undermine the cornerstone of the US legal system: The CITIZEN. The people that say that "Privilege" must be fought against because it is unfair are so willing to sink arguably the greatest privilege the world has known: United States Citizenship

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm not saying I believe Moore is innocent, I'd like to see him step down, and if there's evidence of a crime, let's have a trial.

But you cannot claim that everyone who gets accused of these things, is guilty. In some cases (rare, not rare enough) it's total fabrication, but the media doesn't care about the presumption of innocence when there's a sordid story.

I have no idea what the answer is here.

^^^^^ This. I am pretty confident that Moore is a SlimeyMallCruisingBastard and Franken is a hypocrite but while everyone justifiably grab's their Torches and PithForks, innoncent people will get smeared as targets of opportunity - it is a slippery slope.

Originally Posted by scottw

"but the cost of health care will go up if young healthy people are not forced to buy coverage"

[spence]

Haven't some here lauded the Veritas Project? Not naming names, like Detbuch

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/28/medi...ing/index.html

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Haven't some here lauded the Veritas Project? Not naming names, like Detbuch

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/28/medi...ing/index.html

Yup. Still do. They tried to find something here and there was nothing to find. Sometimes there is. Way it goes.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Yup. Still do. They tried to find something here and there was nothing to find. Sometimes there is. Way it goes.

by any means necessary defense .. know scammers and distributors of truly Fake news .. but why am i not not surprised you would support them .. to the end

[basswipe]

Add Matt Lauer to the list!

[Got Stripers]

I'm sure there are a lot of powerful abusive men having problems sleeping at night, wondering if tomorrow is their turn.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by spence

Haven't some here lauded the Veritas Project? Not naming names, like Detbuch

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/28/medi...ing/index.html

O'Keefe a disciple of Breitbart. They should stick to touting the child molesting ring in Comet Pizza. What a bunch of clowns
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

by any means necessary defense .. know scammers and distributors of truly Fake news .. but why am i not not surprised you would support them .. to the end

What fake news?

[wdmso]

Trump most current tweet

Democrats refusal to give even one vote for massive Tax Cuts is why we need Republican Roy Moore to win in Alabama. We need his vote on stopping crime, illegal immigration, Border Wall, Military, Pro Life, V.A., Judges 2nd Amendment and more. No to Jones, a Pelosi/Schumer Puppet!

but we'll look the other way over sexual misconduct for our own ... I love those Christian values

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Trump most current tweet

Democrats refusal to give even one vote for massive Tax Cuts is why we need Republican Roy Moore to win in Alabama. We need his vote on stopping crime, illegal immigration, Border Wall, Military, Pro Life, V.A., Judges 2nd Amendment and more. No to Jones, a Pelosi/Schumer Puppet!

but we'll look the other way over sexual misconduct for our own ... I love those Christian values

NOBODY thinks that Trump represents Christian values. Is a tiny speck of honesty too much? Although I doubt Trump will trample the rights of Christians like Obama did, forcing Catholic nuns to petition the Supreme Court that yes, even they have constitutional rights. Obama didn't think so. The OBAMA DOJ sued that shipping companies could not force Muslim drivers to ship liquor if it violated their religious beliefs. Yet Obama had no issue with forcing Christians to abandon their religious beliefs at work. No double standard there, no sir-ree.

As for Roy Moore...I don't know. It makes my skin absolutely crawl. But like everyone else, I thought the Duke lacrosse players were guilty too. I hope Moore wins, the Senate refuses to seat him, and they put another conservative (a principled one) in his place.

If these tax cuts appear to be less hostile to the middle class than the Dems are saying, the Dems will get creamed for opposing them. If they are hostile to the middle class, the GOP will get creamed for adopting them.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Trump most current tweet

Democrats refusal to give even one vote for massive Tax Cuts is why we need Republican Roy Moore to win in Alabama. We need his vote on stopping crime, illegal immigration, Border Wall, Military, Pro Life, V.A., Judges 2nd Amendment and more. No to Jones, a Pelosi/Schumer Puppet!

but we'll look the other way over sexual misconduct for our own ... I love those Christian values

You don't believe in the separation of church and state?

[scottw]

it's too bad Moore isn't a democrat...he'd fit right in

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

it's too bad Moore isn't a democrat...he'd fit right in

More so if he drowned his victims...

[PaulS]

Steve Bannon came to Alabama to stump for Roy Moore, but he spent more time attacking national Republicans — including Mitt Romney and his family — than Alabama Democrat Doug Jones a week out from the state's Senate election.

Romney and his five sons topped the former Donald Trump adviser's hit list, which also included Sen. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Bannon’s favorite punching bag, even though the Kentucky Republican just handed Trump his biggest legislative victory yet.

In a particularly nasty and personal attack, the Breitbart News chairman went after Romney's children and Mormon faith, slamming the former GOP presidential nominee for not serving in the Vietnam War and his sons for not putting on the uniform.

"You hid behind your religion. You went to France to be a missionary while men were dying in Vietnam. Do not talk about honor and integrity," Bannon said. (my edit - while Bannon supports a President who didn't go to Vietnam bc of "bone spurs" and who couldn't even remember what foot they were located on.)

Bannon was infuriated by Romney's tweet on Monday in which he wrote that Moore would be a "stain" on the GOP and the country.

Roy Moore in the US Senate would be a stain on the GOP and on the nation. Leigh Corfman and other victims are courageous heroes. No vote, no majority is worth losing our honor, our integrity.
— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) December 4, 2017

Bannon is trying to keep Romney, one of the GOP's most prominent Trump critics, from launching a bid for a Utah Senate seat. And Bannon's vitriol even extended to Romney's sons.

"You ran for commander in chief and had five sons — not one day of service in Afghanistan or Iraq. We have 7,000 dead and 52,000 casualties, and where were the Romneys during those wars?" Bannon asked. "Judge Roy Moore has more honor and integrity in his pinky finger than your entire family."

The attacks elicited cheers from a crowd of several hundred Moore supporters, who packed into a barn here and waved pro-Bannon and Breitbart News signs.

[PaulS]

Tweet Tweet - I didn't realize Moore was a master politician. Prob. just locked up the seat. MAGA

At a campaign event earlier this year, an audience member asked Moore for his opinion on when the last time America was "great." Moore responded: "I think it was great at the time when families were united—even though we had slavery—they cared for one another…. Our families were strong, our country had a direction."

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

At a campaign event earlier this year, an audience member asked Moore for his opinion on when the last time America was "great." Moore responded: "I think it was great at the time when families were united—even though we had slavery—they cared for one another…. Our families were strong, our country had a direction."

he's a piece of work...how bad is the democrat he's running against that they can't defeat this knucklehead...Spence would blame the republicans, if the roles were reversed, for not running a viable candidate against him

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

he's a piece of work...how bad is the democrat he's running against that they can't defeat this knucklehead...Spence would blame the republicans, if the roles were reversed, for not running a viable candidate against him

Have you ever been to Alabama?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The OBAMA DOJ sued that shipping companies could not force Muslim drivers to ship liquor if it violated their religious beliefs. Yet Obama had no issue with forcing Christians to abandon their religious beliefs at work. No double standard there, no sir-ree.

You know the way the law was originally written, the nuns or anyother non profit could apply for exemption? You are really distorting reality because of your bias.

How do you feel about polygamy laws? Is ok for the government to restrict the first amendment rights of LDS members or any other religion that has practiced polygamy?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Tweet Tweet - I didn't realize Moore was a master politician. Prob. just locked up the seat. MAGA

At a campaign event earlier this year, an audience member asked Moore for his opinion on when the last time America was "great." Moore responded: "I think it was great at the time when families were united—even though we had slavery—they cared for one another…. Our families were strong, our country had a direction."

I have been struggling with Moore, but for me, the creepy yearbook inscription he gave a 17 year-old girl, made me think he was guilty.

Yesterday, that girl (now a woman) admitted that she wrote some of that herself, in her own yearbook.

It's impossible to know what to believe, sometimes.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

You know the way the law was originally written, the nuns or anyother non profit could apply for exemption? You are really distorting reality because of your bias.

How do you feel about polygamy laws? Is ok for the government to restrict the first amendment rights of LDS members or any other religion that has practiced polygamy?

"You know the way the law was originally written, the nuns or anyother non profit could apply for exemption?"

Then why did they sue all the way to the Supreme Court? Filing for an exemption would be a whole lot easier and cheaper.

"You are really distorting reality because of your bias"

No I'm not. Now that you're back, instead of saying there are "dozens" of "nuanced" cases that support your claim that the baker doesn't have this right...can you post, or cite, just one?

As for polygamy, that's a very interesting question. I don't have an easy answer. We can all agree that religious freedom doesn't extend to human sacrifice...where do we draw the line? I don't know. But asking a gay couple to go to another bakery certainly isn't a huge burden.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I have been struggling with Moore, but for me, the creepy yearbook inscription he gave a 17 year-old girl, made me think he was guilty.

Yesterday, that girl (now a woman) admitted that she wrote some of that herself, in her own yearbook.

It's impossible to know what to believe, sometimes.

They haven't said what she wrote - I think it was just the last part.

I tend to believe all the woman as they get vilified when they come out and very few get $.

[Got Stripers]

I'd have to side with Franken's parting comments, that much of what he believes he might have been guilty of doing, pales in comparison to Moore and very likely Trump based on his own comments. I'll give the guy credit, he doesn't think any of what he knows he did isn't cause to resign, he's bowing out to enable someone else from his state to step up to serve.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I'd have to side with Franken's parting comments, that much of what he believes he might have been guilty of doing, pales in comparison to Moore and very likely Trump based on his own comments. I'll give the guy credit, he doesn't think any of what he knows he did isn't cause to resign, he's bowing out to enable someone else from his state to step up to serve.

Except we had some photo evidence of Franken's wrongdoing, there is zero evidence (I think) that Moore did anything except victim claims.

Not to discount victim claims. But if that's all it takes, then what's to stop both parties from paying people to make these claims against talented politicians in the other party?

EVERYBODY though the Duke lacrosse players were guilty.

[PaulS]

Just as everybody thought the Central Park five were guilty. There's far too many people where there was a rush to judgment and they've ended up in jail even though they were innocent.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Have you ever been to Alabama?

have you ever been to Rhode Island?