Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Today's Posts Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-06-2018, 03:06 PM   #1
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
What's even funnier is his assertion that you're not entitled to nukes or tanks because you can't "bear" them because they're too heavy

Not my assertion. it's the 2A's assertion--the right to keep and "bear" arms. As in the Macmillan definition:

"to carry or hold something, for example a weapon--bear arms (=carry weapons): Do you support the citizen’s right to bear arms?"

And I didn't say that you're not "entitled" to nukes or tanks. I said the 2A guarantees the right to bear arms. You might be "entitled" to a tank, but that doesn't mean you have a 2A guaranteed right to one.

And I specifically said about nukes: "And Nukes are pretty much banned worldwide as weapons of war except as a deterrence.:


Back in the day a state militiaman was supposed to have a rifle, bayonet and rucksack...not much else.
That was about all he could "bear." And his rifle was the "assault" weapon of the day. AR15's are not even as "assault" worthy as the automatic weapons that todays soldiers have.
detbuch is offline  
Old 03-06-2018, 04:01 PM   #2
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
That was about all he could "bear." And his rifle was the "assault" weapon of the day. AR15's are not even as "assault" worthy as the automatic weapons that todays soldiers have.
To carry a weapon also implies its use otherwise what's the point? If the ability to serve in a militia was bound by the weight of the arms you'd think that would have been called out. It really doesn't make any sense.

That an AR-15 isn't fully auto doesn't really matter. It's still a military design and from what I understand using an M-16/MP4 full auto is usually a waste of ammunition and something most in the infantry would rarely do.
spence is offline  
Old 03-06-2018, 04:39 PM   #3
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 35,134
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
To carry a weapon also implies its use otherwise what's the point? If the ability to serve in a militia was bound by the weight of the arms you'd think that would have been called out. It really doesn't make any sense.

That an AR-15 isn't fully auto doesn't really matter. It's still a military design and from what I understand using an M-16/MP4 full auto is usually a waste of ammunition and something most in the infantry would rarely do.
That an AR15 does not go Fully Auto or Selective Fire DO matter as to where a rifle is a military weapon or not. You can hang a grenade launcher underneath if you re in the military (and your superiors approve) but you cannot legally do it on a civilian firearm.

There are other considerable differences as well. I know of one that looks scary but frankly would melt and fail if you placed it under the rigors of actual combat, selective fire, or full auto.

Oh and Legal Definitions Matter


~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline  
Old 03-06-2018, 04:44 PM   #4
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 35,134
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers View Post
Yes, we as an evolving society, realized that not allowing women the same rights (power isn't even close) as men, was wrong. With the help of another forward thinking man, good old Abe understood that enslaving your fellow man is wrong; moving to change the thinking of the times. We have changed John, our society has made an unimaginable leap since our forefathers penned the constitution; that span of time is why thinking must change.

As difficult as times might have been when my parents (rest their soles) entered adulthood, at least you shared the values of your neighbors, your community and a common purpose always seemed to be at hand.

Oh and by the way, for those militia rights die hards, who is coordinating this move to arms, better have some very special IT skilled, capable of hacking all government servers types ready in the wings, because guess who's watching and listening to you. Cell phones, oops guess again, they will be listening. Oh I know we all are equipped with ham radios and communication and coordination will NOT be an issue; this entire argument is comical.

And the come back to the above paragraph, is this is why the 2A was written and there Zimmy we get back to point A; isn't it fun?

Old Abe (if I could go back in time that would be the one thing I would sure fix - Ford Theater) actually significantly increased the power of the Federal Government during his time.

Not me - No Militia IT guy here. For Reals.

P.S. Go look up the Socialist Rifle Association.

So lemme get this straight - if DJT wanted to pull a XI Zedong and become President for life - you wouldn't want citizens saying NO?

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline  
Old 03-06-2018, 05:01 PM   #5
Got Stripers
Ledge Runner Baits
iTrader: (0)
 
Got Stripers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
Old Abe (if I could go back in time that would be the one thing I would sure fix - Ford Theater) actually significantly increased the power of the Federal Government during his time.

Not me - No Militia IT guy here. For Reals.

P.S. Go look up the Socialist Rifle Association.

So lemme get this straight - if DJT wanted to pull a XI Zedong and become President for life - you wouldn't want citizens saying NO?
See that's where this argument just gets crazy for me, can I assume that DJT has control over the military or not? If not then no the military and the good men and women it the service of our country will take care of things and no citizens militia is needed. If yes then I fall back to my previous post and we are all screwed and no amount of armed citizens is going to make a hill of beans difference.
Got Stripers is offline  
Old 03-06-2018, 05:34 PM   #6
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers View Post
See that's where this argument just gets crazy for me, can I assume that DJT has control over the military or not? If not then no the military and the good men and women it the service of our country will take care of things and no citizens militia is needed. If yes then I fall back to my previous post and we are all screwed and no amount of armed citizens is going to make a hill of beans difference.
If not, then per your assumption about the good men and women in the military, we can assume that we don't need to be concerned about the oft proffered scenario of F-22's and the massive firepower of the federal military devastating the militia.

If yes, how would we have gotten to such a state given the wonderful evolution of society over time which is supposed to require changes made in the Constitution to make it serve the here and now? As it was originally written, the Constitution gave Congress the power to check the President by not funding his escapades, including military ventures.

Actually, the "evolution" of the Constitution over time without use of amendment (actually the "ignoring" is more apt than the "evolution") has brought us closer to an unchecked central power than was possible under the faithfulness to the pre-evolved (pre-ignored) Constitution.

Last edited by detbuch; 03-06-2018 at 06:05 PM..
detbuch is offline  
Old 03-06-2018, 07:10 PM   #7
Got Stripers
Ledge Runner Baits
iTrader: (0)
 
Got Stripers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
If not, then per your assumption about the good men and women in the military, we can assume that we don't need to be concerned about the oft proffered scenario of F-22's and the massive firepower of the federal military devastating the militia.

If yes, how would we have gotten to such a state given the wonderful evolution of society over time which is supposed to require changes made in the Constitution to make it serve the here and now? As it was originally written, the Constitution gave Congress the power to check the President by not funding his escapades, including military ventures.

Actually, the "evolution" of the Constitution over time without use of amendment (actually the "ignoring" is more apt than the "evolution") has brought us closer to an unchecked central power than was possible under the faithfulness to the pre-evolved (pre-ignored) Constitution.
Well you have twisted that around for sure, but no if Trump goes off the rails and wants to suddenly proclaim himself the next coming and the military isn't in his pocket, I suspect our neighbors, friends and relatives serving will right the ship and kick his ass to the curb, so no I'm not worried. But if you have added a third alternative, where DJT goes off the rails, the military stop him, but then hungry for power decide to declare military law, that's my alternate #2; we are screwed and all your 38 magnums, 12 ga, deer rifles and AR-15s aren't going so save your butts.

If the constitution were written in stone 300 years ahead of when it was written, I suspect you would still be interpreting it literary as you see those early people meant it to be interpreted.

Last edited by Got Stripers; 03-06-2018 at 07:15 PM..
Got Stripers is offline  
 

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com