What do you see happening to your healthcare costs in the next few years

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Apparently, no country is foolish enough to try it.

Actually, we were foolish to depart from that "system" and switch to federal government control. As we "progressed" through the switch, prices skyrocketed.

Advances in medicine occurred before the switch, and would have continued probably even faster and better without the switch. And the competition between states would have created varieties from which to choose. And it would have helped to preserve our constitutional "system" rather than helping to destroy it. And individual freedom of choice as well as freedom in general would have been sustained.

[PaulS]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/well...nb7Kz#image=18

Obesity rates - just saw this.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/well...nb7Kz#image=18

Obesity rates - just saw this.

Any fat bastards that think its the states fault they are fat, raise there hands.

Nope, that one is on me and my love of Craft Beer and BBQ

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Any fat bastards that think its the states fault they are fat, raise there hands.

Nope, that one is on me and my love of Craft Beer and BBQ

But that's the very core of liberalism - nothing is your fault, and only the state can save you from yourself, and from the predatory practices of the craft breweries and BBQ joints. It's stupefying that anyone would think that obesity rates are tied to politics. Think how much you have to reject the notion of free will, to blame obesity on the state.

If all behavior is determined by politics, what does it say to you, Paul, that the crappiest and most dangerous cities in the country, are overwhelmingly liberal cities? Chicago, Baltimore, DC, Hartford, Bridgeport? Is all that drug use, fatherlessness, and crime, the result of liberalism? Or does that connection only exist when bad things happen in conservative places?

There are plenty of places in NC where I would never want to live (there are also plenty of places in CT where I would not want to live). But there are some places in NC that offer a high quality of life, with a low cost of living. Please name me one single place in CT that has a high quality of life, with low low taxes. You can't. Because we haven't been able to pull that off, but NC has. Ask the real estate agents and real estate developers.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/well...nb7Kz#image=18

Obesity rates - just saw this.

And that's because of politics, not culture? So if healthy people move from CT to NC, they can expect to become obese?

Come on Paul. That doesn't come close to making any sense.

Bash the Carolinas all you want, and there are plenty of legitimate things to bash them with. I don't like NASCAR or hunting either. The fact is, huge numbers of upper middle class New Englanders are moving there, and most don't come back. And the reason is, it turns out that you can have all the good things about our quality of life, without having to overpay for them.

[PaulS]

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;1142743]And that's because of politics, not culture? So if healthy people move from CT to NC, they can expect to become obese?

Come on Paul. That doesn't come close to making any sense.

QUOTE]

Republicans policies tend to entrench poverty, and obesity and poverty often go together. The Republican-dominated states where obesity rates are the highest are states where there is more poverty, weak unions, people who lack health insurance and a strong opposition to the ACA. Also, opposition to food stamps, school meals and spending $ on education (to teach students about nutrition - don't eat cheetos vs fruit)

There is more to it then poverty, lack of health insurance and inadequate access to healthy food and obesity can’t be blamed only on the conserv. policies (plenty of overweight people in liberal cities) but stats show obesity is the conserv. states and those conserv. policies make the problem worse.


Any ranking of obesity has conserv. states at the top and liberal states at the bottom. That is not solely blaming states only noting it is a part of the problem. As an actuary you have to see a correlation.

[Jim in CT]

[QUOTE=PaulS;1142756]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

And that's because of politics, not culture? So if healthy people move from CT to NC, they can expect to become obese?

Come on Paul. That doesn't come close to making any sense.

QUOTE]

Republicans policies tend to entrench poverty, and obesity and poverty often go together. The Republican-dominated states where obesity rates are the highest are states where there is more poverty, weak unions, people who lack health insurance and a strong opposition to the ACA. Also, opposition to food stamps, school meals and spending $ on education (to teach students about nutrition - don't eat cheetos vs fruit)

There is more to it then poverty, lack of health insurance and inadequate access to healthy food and obesity can’t be blamed only on the conserv. policies (plenty of overweight people in liberal cities) but stats show obesity is the conserv. states and those conserv. policies make the problem worse.


Any ranking of obesity has conserv. states at the top and liberal states at the bottom. That is not solely blaming states only noting it is a part of the problem. As an actuary you have to see a correlation.

"Republicans policies tend to entrench poverty, and obesity and poverty often go together. "

You are desperately grasping at straws. Anyone who would suggest that politics determines obesity for a significant percentage of the citizenry, is a maniac.

"The Republican-dominated states where obesity rates are the highest are states where there is more poverty, weak unions, people who lack health insurance and a strong opposition to the ACA."

Unions? UNIONS keep people skinny?

OK, I had my laugh for the day, I think we are done now.

[Jim in CT]

[QUOTE=PaulS;1142756]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

And that's because of politics, not culture? So if healthy people move from CT to NC, they can expect to become obese?

Come on Paul. That doesn't come close to making any sense.

QUOTE]

Republicans policies tend to entrench poverty, and obesity and poverty often go together. The Republican-dominated states where obesity rates are the highest are states where there is more poverty, weak unions, people who lack health insurance and a strong opposition to the ACA. Also, opposition to food stamps, school meals and spending $ on education (to teach students about nutrition - don't eat cheetos vs fruit)

There is more to it then poverty, lack of health insurance and inadequate access to healthy food and obesity can’t be blamed only on the conserv. policies (plenty of overweight people in liberal cities) but stats show obesity is the conserv. states and those conserv. policies make the problem worse.


Any ranking of obesity has conserv. states at the top and liberal states at the bottom. That is not solely blaming states only noting it is a part of the problem. As an actuary you have to see a correlation.

"Any ranking of obesity has conserv. states at the top and liberal states at the bottom. That is not solely blaming states only noting it is a part of the problem. As an actuary you have to see a correlation."

As an actuary, if I ever dared to say out loud that state politics plays any meaningful role in people's weight, they'd kick me out of the association and never let me work again, and they'd be right to do so.

Again, if what you say is true (and it isn't, bit let's pretend), I'd bet that liberal states have more abortions, more drug use, more violent crime, poverty, fatherlessness, infidelity, divorce. If conservatism causes obesity, do you concede that liberalism causes the problems I listed? Can't have it both ways.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

And that's because of politics, not culture? So if healthy people move from CT to NC, they can expect to become obese?

Come on Paul. That doesn't come close to making any sense.

Bash the Carolinas all you want, and there are plenty of legitimate things to bash them with. I don't like NASCAR or hunting either. The fact is, huge numbers of upper middle class New Englanders are moving there, and most don't come back. And the reason is, it turns out that you can have all the good things about our quality of life, without having to overpay for them.

jim people are moving but not in the numbers you think or the area and the reason have been very constant

When we look just at movers into North Carolina, Virginia is the most common sending state: nearly 29,300 individuals moved to North Carolina from Virginia between 2012 and 2013 according to the 2013 American Community Survey. Florida was second, with just under 26,000 individuals moving from Florida to North Carolina. New York is third, with 24,300 individuals moving from New York into North Carolina over the same time period.



Also poverty and low wages result in higher obesity rates (its not the only factor )

A new study has found that minimum-wage employees are more likely to be obese than those who earn higher wages, adding to growing evidence that being poor is a risk factor for unhealthy weight.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

jim people are moving but not in the numbers you think or the area and the reason have been very constant

When we look just at movers into North Carolina, Virginia is the most common sending state: nearly 29,300 individuals moved to North Carolina from Virginia between 2012 and 2013 according to the 2013 American Community Survey. Florida was second, with just under 26,000 individuals moving from Florida to North Carolina. New York is third, with 24,300 individuals moving from New York into North Carolina over the same time period.



Also poverty and low wages result in higher obesity rates (its not the only factor )

A new study has found that minimum-wage employees are more likely to be obese than those who earn higher wages, adding to growing evidence that being poor is a risk factor for unhealthy weight.

CT isn't losing huge numbers of employees, but it's losing the ones we can't afford to lose. CT is continually ranked in the top 5 of population exodus.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinq...inues-to-fail/

[PaulS]

Some good reading here:

The red states all have significantly lower life expectancy than blue states, owing to much higher incidences of diabetes, obesity, stroke and heart disease.
Red states have much higher rates of uninsured citizens, death, food stamp recipients and Medicaid recipients
The 10 poorest states in the nation are all red states and 97 of the 100 poorest counties are in red states.
The median income is much lower in red states than in blue states.
State funding per student is much lower in in red states.
The top 10 states that practice corporal punishment are red states.
The percent of the population with college degrees is lower in red states than in blue states.
Red states have a higher percentage of population abusing drugs.
The rate of traffic related fatalities is higher in red states.
The incidence of alcohol-related driving fatalities is higher in red states.
Of the 12 states with the highest murder rates, 10 are red states.
Of the top 10 states with the highest teenage pregnancy rates, nine are red states.
Of the top 15 states with the highest per capita execution rate, 13 are red states.
The incarceration rate is much higher in red states.
Property crimes rates are higher in red states than in blue states.
Divorce rates are significantly higher in red states.
Abstinence-only sex education is more prevalent in red states, which accounts for the fact that of the states with the highest teenage pregnancy rates, nine of the top ten are red states.
There are significantly more white supremacists hate groups in red states than in blue states.


Violence
http://editions.lib.umn.edu/smartpol...igher-crime-r/

Divorce
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25032268

Teen Pregnancies
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...een_moms_.html

Pornography
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...re-pornography

Best states for woman.
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-w...r-women/10728/

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Some good reading here:

The red states all have significantly lower life expectancy than blue states, owing to much higher incidences of diabetes, obesity, stroke and heart disease.
Red states have much higher rates of uninsured citizens, death, food stamp recipients and Medicaid recipients
The 10 poorest states in the nation are all red states and 97 of the 100 poorest counties are in red states.
The median income is much lower in red states than in blue states.
State funding per student is much lower in in red states.
The top 10 states that practice corporal punishment are red states.
The percent of the population with college degrees is lower in red states than in blue states.
Red states have a higher percentage of population abusing drugs.
The rate of traffic related fatalities is higher in red states.
The incidence of alcohol-related driving fatalities is higher in red states.
Of the 12 states with the highest murder rates, 10 are red states.
Of the top 10 states with the highest teenage pregnancy rates, nine are red states.
Of the top 15 states with the highest per capita execution rate, 13 are red states.
The incarceration rate is much higher in red states.
Property crimes rates are higher in red states than in blue states.
Divorce rates are significantly higher in red states.
Abstinence-only sex education is more prevalent in red states, which accounts for the fact that of the states with the highest teenage pregnancy rates, nine of the top ten are red states.
There are significantly more white supremacists hate groups in red states than in blue states.

That is surely because all those rich liberals threw the fat, drunk, abusive, illiterate deplorables out of their blue states.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Some good reading here:

The red states all have significantly lower life expectancy than blue states, owing to much higher incidences of diabetes, obesity, stroke and heart disease.
Red states have much higher rates of uninsured citizens, death, food stamp recipients and Medicaid recipients
The 10 poorest states in the nation are all red states and 97 of the 100 poorest counties are in red states.
The median income is much lower in red states than in blue states.
State funding per student is much lower in in red states.
The top 10 states that practice corporal punishment are red states.
The percent of the population with college degrees is lower in red states than in blue states.
Red states have a higher percentage of population abusing drugs.
The rate of traffic related fatalities is higher in red states.
The incidence of alcohol-related driving fatalities is higher in red states.
Of the 12 states with the highest murder rates, 10 are red states.
Of the top 10 states with the highest teenage pregnancy rates, nine are red states.
Of the top 15 states with the highest per capita execution rate, 13 are red states.
The incarceration rate is much higher in red states.
Property crimes rates are higher in red states than in blue states.
Divorce rates are significantly higher in red states.
Abstinence-only sex education is more prevalent in red states, which accounts for the fact that of the states with the highest teenage pregnancy rates, nine of the top ten are red states.
There are significantly more white supremacists hate groups in red states than in blue states.


Violence
http://editions.lib.umn.edu/smartpol...igher-crime-r/

Divorce
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25032268

Teen Pregnancies
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...een_moms_.html

Pornography
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...re-pornography

Best states for woman.
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-w...r-women/10728/

amazing that despite all that, they can't build $450,000 houses fast enough, in the Carolinas or the suburbs of Nashville.

Paul, instead of pointing to studies, try answering this...please point to some principles that you and I would both agree are conservative principles, that would cause people to be fat, unhealthy, poor, etc.

As to income, our median income in CT is very high. Some of that, probably much of that, has absolutely nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with how lucky we are to have beautiful waterfront real estate that is close to Manhattan.

"Of the 12 states with the highest murder rates, 10 are red states"

Break it down by city, please.

I pity all those upper middle class people moving south in droves They must really be stupid.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

amazing that despite all that, they can't build $450,000 houses fast enough, in the Carolinas or the suburbs of Nashville.


I pity all those upper middle class people moving south in droves They must really be stupid.

50-60 years ago they were building them as fast as they could in the NYC, Boston and Jersey suburbs. They must have been getting out of the liberal cities to the conservative suburbs.
Not all change is due to liberal politics, most of the people i know that moved south did it for warmer weather. Some did it for opportunity.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

50-60 years ago they were building them as fast as they could in the NYC, Boston and Jersey suburbs. They must have been getting out of the liberal cities to the conservative suburbs.
Not all change is due to liberal politics, most of the people i know that moved south did it for warmer weather. Some did it for opportunity.

the southern state Gentrification is due in large part to liberals and their money

https://www.salon.com/2016/06/17/5_s..._poor_partner/

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...420-story.html

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

50-60 years ago they were building them as fast as they could in the NYC, Boston and Jersey suburbs. They must have been getting out of the liberal cities to the conservative suburbs.
Not all change is due to liberal politics, most of the people i know that moved south did it for warmer weather. Some did it for opportunity.

50-60 years ago, CT was a cheap place to live, and called "land of steady habits". We had a value proposition back then. Not anymore.

"Not all change is due to liberal politics"

Sure, weather is part of it. But other cold states aren't lagging population growth like CT is. Cost if living is a huge factor. I could move to NH tomorrow, get almost the same house in a town with similar schools, and enjoy tax savings of $900 a month, every month., for the rest of my life. And the cost difference between NH and CT is increasing, not decreasing. That is a fortune an absolute fortune.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I could move to NH tomorrow

the roads are nicer too...was up there visiting a customer the other day....leaving Mass where the road looked like someone bombed it, as soon as I hit the NH line, the road was pristine....go figure?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

amazing that despite all that, they can't build $450,000 houses fast enough, in the Carolinas or the suburbs of Nashville.

Paul, instead of pointing to studies, try answering this...please point to some principles that you and I would both agree are conservative principles, that would cause people to be fat, unhealthy, poor, etc.

As to income, our median income in CT is very high. Some of that, probably much of that, has absolutely nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with how lucky we are to have beautiful waterfront real estate that is close to Manhattan.

"Of the 12 states with the highest murder rates, 10 are red states"

Break it down by city, please.

I pity all those upper middle class people moving south in droves They must really be stupid.

The median price of homes currently listed in North Carolina is $259,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $187,300.

The median price of homes currently listed in Connecticut is $315,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $239,100.

sure you can get a lot of house down there but a truck cost the same a gallon of gas isn't much cheaper a gallon of milk cost the same . some taxes are less but its still about wages

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

The median price of homes currently listed in North Carolina is $259,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $187,300.

The median price of homes currently listed in Connecticut is $315,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $239,100.

sure you can get a lot of house down there but a truck cost the same a gallon of gas isn't much cheaper a gallon of milk cost the same . some taxes are less but its still about wages

"The median price of homes currently listed in North Carolina is $259,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $187,300."

Look in the Charlotte suburbs, BOOMING places like Waxhaw and Fort Mill SC. And remember, a 187k house down there, costs a lot more up here. Can't just compare dollars. Have to compare apples to apples. I'm not wrong. You want me to be wrong, I get that.

Let's have a fair comparison.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

The median price of homes currently listed in North Carolina is $259,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $187,300.

The median price of homes currently listed in Connecticut is $315,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $239,100.

sure you can get a lot of house down there but a truck cost the same a gallon of gas isn't much cheaper a gallon of milk cost the same . some taxes are less but its still about wages

According to raltor.com, the median listing price in southeast Charlotte (one of the hottest areas in the country), is 425k. Look at the house I listed, 5 br brick colonial, 3400 sf on a perfectly manicured 0.6 acres, awesome public schools (I know Waxhaw), property taxes are less than 500 a month? Would be close to double that in the Hartford suburbs. That's why people are moving there. CT is no longer worth the premium you have to pay.

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...3_M67219-02349

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

The median price of homes currently listed in North Carolina is $259,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $187,300.

The median price of homes currently listed in Connecticut is $315,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $239,100.

sure you can get a lot of house down there but a truck cost the same a gallon of gas isn't much cheaper a gallon of milk cost the same . some taxes are less but its still about wages

Beer is cheaper, dining out is cheaper, property taxes are waaaaaay cheaper. Vehicles last longer because they don’t rot out from all the salt on the roads in winter. Spring starts in February vs June up here
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Beer is cheaper, dining out is cheaper, property taxes are waaaaaay cheaper. Vehicles last longer because they don’t rot out from all the salt on the roads in winter. Spring starts in February vs June up here
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Houses also cheaper.

[Jim in CT]

WDMSO, Paul -

I agree completely that there are places in the south that are nothing but fried twinkies and trailer parks, places I would never raise my kids. It's a different culture, no question.

But there are places in the Carolinas and Tennessee, that aren't like that at all. Entire cities that are booming, $450k houses selling like hotcakes, being bought by northern transplants who want all of the things that make life nice (pretty neighborhoods, cute towns, great schools, healthy activities for kids, restaurants, good healthcare), and a much lower price. In other words, if you do 5 minutes of homework, you can find a town in the suburbs of Charlotte or the suburbs of Nashville, that look and feel and work like great New England suburbs, with southern taxes. We now know it's possible.

I know a handful of cities like that in the Carolinas and Tennessee. There are exactly zero cities in Connecticut that have the CT quality of life and southern taxes. Not one. Zip.

I'm not saying that every town in the south is as nice as CT at a lower cost. But there are some places like that. That is indisputable. Why aren't we trying to emulate that?

If I'm wrong, and there are towns in CT that offer a comparable quality of life with much lower taxes, please let me know where they are?

Not all of NC is better than all of CT. Posting studies comparing entire states, is off topic. But there are specific areas with similar quality of life, at far less cost. That is called "winning". I can't fathom why we aren't screaming for that here, and I think the reason is that the media and those who run the state, never stop saying that in general, CT has a lot of advantages over those states. They talk about the worst places in those states, but that's not where people are moving.

[detbuch]

Are the ten poorest states really Republican? Apparently not:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhen...ly-republican/

There are so many variables in these state by state comparisons that making broad overall judgments by one statistic is beyond stupid.

Here's another example from another point of view:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#631224291d60

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

That makes sense, let's stuff the schools with first timers learning on the job with no experienced mentors.

Actually - when I worked 4 years in a RI K-12, most of the hardest working teachers were the young ones - not the ones corrupted by the system.

Originally Posted by detbuch

Are the ten poorest states really Republican? Apparently not:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhen...ly-republican/

There are so many variables in these state by state comparisons that making broad overall judgments by one statistic is beyond stupid.

Here's another example from another point of view:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#631224291d60

I bet the top 20 poorest large Cities are all Democrat

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I bet the top 20 poorest large Cities are all Democrat as a result of Conservative Policies

[wdmso]

tax savings of $900 a month, ???? how do you figure that

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

tax savings of $900 a month, ???? how do you figure that

It's a simple calculation, actually. There is zero state income tax in NH, and there is zero state sales tax in NH. I know exactly what I pay in state income tax, and I can make a good estimate of what I pay in state sales tax. That's my tax savings. That savings is reduced by the fact that local property taxes would be a bit higher.

We looked at a nice house in Sunappee, NH. Tax savings would be $900 a month in my pocket. And that does NOT include the impact of limited deduction of state/local taxes, which increases what I would save by moving to NH. And it doesn't take into account the certainty that CT will be increasing taxes again and again, to try to fund the union pensions. The cost differential between CT and NH (currently $900 a month for me) is increasing, not decreasing.

$900 a month in my pocket, just based on today's taxes. Plus, the University of New Hampshire costs residents $7,000 less a year, than UCONN does. For my 3 kids, that would add up to a savings of $84,000. 84 grand in my pocket, on top of the 900/month.

It's a fortune, an absolute fortune. I could retire years earlier if I moved to NH.

What do you think?

[detbuch]

Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
I'm not proposing a system. I'm proposing that the federal government significantly get out of health care. I'm proposing that the individual states create whatever regulations are needed, and that those regulations protect a free market in health care. Can you point out an example of what you think I propose doesn't work?

Pete F reply "Apparently, no country is foolish enough to try it.

It's not about a country trying it. "Countries" doing it are government controlled market models. Free market models of all sorts and categories, not just medical care, have not only been tried, they work better and are usually the first model which is then followed by various government attempts at regulating costs and just about everything else--which usually results in overall costs going up.

As far as free market surgical procedures go, Lasik and cosmetic surgery prices not only are far less costly than the highly government controlled health care procedures, they have gone down due to competition. And there are some private surgical and medical clinics that do not take Medicare or Medicaid, and who advertise prices which are far below standard hospital prices: http://kfor.com/2013/07/08/okc-hospi...prices-online/

And, as far as "country" or government run health care goes, Singapore and
Switzerland are probably the two best and they are far closer to free market than the others. The more market oriented health care is, the better and less costly it is.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
I'm not proposing a system. I'm proposing that the federal government significantly get out of health care. I'm proposing that the individual states create whatever regulations are needed, and that those regulations protect a free market in health care. Can you point out an example of what you think I propose doesn't work?

Pete F reply "Apparently, no country is foolish enough to try it.

It's not about a country trying it. "Countries" doing it are government controlled market models. Free market models of all sorts and categories, not just medical care, have not only been tried, they work better and are usually the first model which is then followed by various government attempts at regulating costs and just about everything else--which usually results in overall costs going up.

As far as free market surgical procedures go, Lasik and cosmetic surgery prices not only are far less costly than the highly government controlled health care procedures, they have gone down due to competition. And there are some private surgical and medical clinics that do not take Medicare or Medicaid, and who advertise prices which are far below standard hospital prices: http://kfor.com/2013/07/08/okc-hospi...prices-online/

And, as far as "country" or government run health care goes, Singapore and
Switzerland are probably the two best and they are far closer to free market than the others. The more market oriented health care is, the better and less costly it is.

Switzerland is first in the world for healthcare costs per capita