Texas Shooting

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Less entrances brings up its own set of problems."
Every proposed solution, will create a new set of issues to tackle. Maybe those problems are preferable to the problem of putting tiny caskets in the ground.

You are missing the point, Jim. The point is assessments to determine what best suits a particular school based on its own situation. Some places where there are less entrances might make the count inflicted go up.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"The Ban Gun folks are only willing to confiscate, for many there is no compromise. The pro 2A folks (of which I support) are very hesitant to move on some issues when the Ban Guns people are going to again increase pressure when and if anything is done. "

Many on the left are fixated on solving this with gun restrictions, and common sense suggests that of all proposed solutions, gun solutions aren't going to reduce the body count as much as other solutions. But the folks who believe that the 2A is absolute aren't bending either. The pro 2A folks are going to have to throw everyone else a bone to get something done, and bump stocks and high capacity magazines are a likely offering. We can argue all day long about all the ways to kill people without bump stocks and high capacity magazines, but how do we look at our kids if we do nothing? How?

The Pro2A folks have either been throwing bones or having their bones taken away against their will for some time, and in some locations more harshly than others. The gun takers have already been chipping away for decades. When is the erosion of a right enough?

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"You keep repeating this meme that the Second Amendment is not absolute. I don't even know what you mean by that."

I am absolutely certain you do know what I mean. George Soros shouldn't be allowed to be a nuke just because he can afford it. Similarly, one of the men who crafted the 2A, banned guns on the campus of the University of Virginia. it's not absolute. As far as my knowledge of history goes (which also isn't absolute) the guy who wrote it, didn't intend for it to be absolute.

"If you think throwing another bone, added to the previous pile of bones, will be the end of it,"

Guns are banned in Court Houses, Police Stations, and many other places. That does not prevent you from having them, just prevents you from bringing them into certain places.

When traveling in a car you need to have everything locked in a case, ammo separated from firearm. You can only travel between home, work, and a range. This is the law in RI. There have already been many laws and restrictions applied to good and honest people, many bones have been thrown or stolen.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

See we can find some common ground.

The 2a fanatics who claim that if we give an inch, that it necessarily follows that we’ll have to surrender handguns and hunting rifles next, are being as thoughtless and paranoid as the tin foil hat crowd on the far left. There’s no inevitability that it has to go all the way to the extreme. History shows very very few examples of things going to the extreme in either direction.

I don’t believe gun legislation will do much good. But I’d give up bump sticks and high capacity magazines, if it gets Chris Murphy and Nancy oelosi to agree to legislation that will actually do some good.

In a rational world, we wouldn’t have to throw them a bone to get things done. In the real world, sometimes you have to give a little to get a little.

If giving up those things led to legislation that saved the life of a single child, I’d do it in a second. The 2a fanatics won’t. In the event that we all have to explain ourselves someday, I’m comfortable with my position.
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What legislation would do some good? What is the common ground we can reach? Mental Health screening? Storage laws?

Clearly nobody wants to take away guns, the NRA just does it because it mindcontrols people and politicians. /sarc

http://buffalonews.com/2018/05/16/ro...kes-nras-case/

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

You are missing the point, Jim. The point is assessments to determine what best suits a particular school based on its own situation. Some places where there are less entrances might make the count inflicted go up.



The Pro2A folks have either been throwing bones or having their bones taken away against their will for some time, and in some locations more harshly than others. The gun takers have already been chipping away for decades. When is the erosion of a right enough?





Guns are banned in Court Houses, Police Stations, and many other places. That does not prevent you from having them, just prevents you from bringing them into certain places.

When traveling in a car you need to have everything locked in a case, ammo separated from firearm. You can only travel between home, work, and a range. This is the law in RI. There have already been many laws and restrictions applied to good and honest people, many bones have been thrown or stolen.






What legislation would do some good? What is the common ground we can reach? Mental Health screening? Storage laws?

Clearly nobody wants to take away guns, the NRA just does it because it mindcontrols people and politicians. /sarc

http://buffalonews.com/2018/05/16/ro...kes-nras-case/

"Some places where there are less entrances might make the count inflicted go up."

Good point, and something to be considered.

"The Pro2A folks have either been throwing bones or having their bones taken away against their will for some time"

True. But ask the victims' families which side has sacrificed more. There are two sides to this, not just one. Each side has a legitimate concern, not just the 2A side. CT has some strict gun laws I'm told. I can still get a handgun or a hunting rifle, I'm not a black in the segregated south who couldn't own a gun. I'm pretty sure the current situation is much closer to the ideal for the 2A crowd, than it is for the families of dead children. I'm not advocating for either extreme, I'm saying that even here in CT, I have the right to acquire a lot of different types of guns. At least I presume so. I have friends with handguns, shotguns, AR-15s. Not sure what more they want, or what they've had to surrender. But whatever they've had to surrender, I know some families in Newtown who have surrendered a lot more. The 2A crowd never talks about that.

I don't see having to lock my gun in a car, as a major infringement, but reasonable people can disagree on that point.

"What legislation would do some good? What is the common ground we can reach? Mental Health screening? Storage laws?"

Make it easier to commit the mentally ill. Policies (maybe not laws, but programs) that identify kids who are obviously isolated (the kid in FL put up every conceivable red flag), and which work with these kids to make sure they know that they matter and that someone cares about them. Policies that encourage families to stay together, instead of providing financial incentives for families to break apart. Funding for trained, carefully screened guards at schools. Policies that reduce the violence that we bombard our children with all day long. Maybe ask democrats and the media to stop endlessly mocking people of faith, and God forbid, start talking about the obvious benefits that faith can add to our lives. Maybe a national guardsmen in every school, every day.

I would trade bump stocks and high capacity magazines in a second, for all of that.

You made great points John, and you did it rationally. You didn't say "if I give up my bump stock today, then tomorrow they'll take my hunting rifle". I haven't heard any serious talk of an all-out gun grab, and until people of influence are calling for that, the right should stop acting as if that's around the corner.

I don't think gun control measures will do much, I agree with you on that. What I'm saying is, if we can't convince the left of the futility of fixing this with gun laws, that maybe we offer them something, in return for policies that will actually put a dent in the body count.

I don't see a lot of compassion from the 2A zealots on this issue...and we're better than that. I see a lot more paranoia, than I see compassion.