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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
06-21-2018, 10:06 AM
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#1
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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What does it take to be an effective president
An interesting excerpt from a book written 15 years ago.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...reenstein.html
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-21-2018, 05:06 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
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I think the lack of interest in this post speaks volumes.
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06-21-2018, 05:19 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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it was written by an elitist AKA smart person ... so it has to be a lie or written to discredit Trump
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06-21-2018, 06:24 PM
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#4
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Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 35,134
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Trump is not a great Pres, Obama was not a great Pres. In both we got what we deserved.
Hillary and Sanders would have been terrible. Would Mitt have been good? Dunno. But I think he would have been better than T or O.
When was the last good one? George Sr? Ronnie?
Carter sucked. Don't know enough about Ford. Nixon is Nixon. Johnson was terrible.
But Abraham Lincoln is not walking through that door.
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~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~
Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers
Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.
Apocalypse is Coming:
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06-21-2018, 09:00 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bethany CT
Posts: 2,877
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Last good one was Obama. I actually think it is too bad you don't see it.Hillary would have been fine, but people like to hate her. She is annoying but her policies would have been dramatically better than Donny numb nuts or w.
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06-21-2018, 09:12 PM
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#6
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,189
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Hillary was #^&#^&#^&#^&
Last good one was probably RR, senior wasn't bad, had a lot of chit dumped on his plate that the country wasn't ready to deal with yet.
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06-21-2018, 09:13 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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That is funny
Hahaha
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06-22-2018, 05:34 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
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06-22-2018, 08:21 AM
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#9
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Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 35,134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
Last good one was Obama. I actually think it is too bad you don't see it.Hillary would have been fine, but people like to hate her. She is annoying but her policies would have been dramatically better than Donny numb nuts or w.
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Sorry - he may have been the last decent man in office (Trump is not decent) but his policies were generally poor to horrible, FP was a disaster (not all his fault, some inherited)
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~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~
Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers
Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.
Apocalypse is Coming:
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06-22-2018, 08:49 AM
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#10
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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The paper is not about policy, though I am sure the authors views may have colored it somewhat one way or another, but about what qualities make an effective president.
He lists 6 qualities that he considered.
It was written in the last Bush administration.
What do you think Obama and Trumps weaknesses and strengths are in these categories? Not looking at their Policies.
It's not a test and you don't have to answer, but it is an important thing to think about as a voter.
Effectiveness as a Public Communicator
Organizational Capacity
Political Skill
Vision
Cognitive Style
Emotional Intelligence
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-22-2018, 09:29 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
The paper is not about policy, though I am sure the authors views may have colored it somewhat one way or another, but about what qualities make an effective president.
He lists 6 qualities that he considered.
It was written in the last Bush administration.
What do you think Obama and Trumps weaknesses and strengths are in these categories? Not looking at their Policies.
It's not a test and you don't have to answer, but it is an important thing to think about as a voter.
Effectiveness as a Public Communicator
Organizational Capacity
Political Skill
Vision
Cognitive Style
Emotional Intelligence
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Are any of these things anywhere near as important, as policy?
Trump's political skill is beyond measure, otherwise Hilary would be POTUS. The biggest jerk ever, beat (crushed) the most inevitable candidate ever.
Trump maybe has the lowest emotional intelligence (whatever that is) ever, but who cares. I mean he's embarrassing, but I'd rather have an effective jerk than a decent guy who is clueless.
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06-22-2018, 09:32 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
But Abraham Lincoln is not walking through that door.
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Condaleeza Rice is at Stanford. We may have to pass a law ordering her to be POTUS under penalty of death. She's what the nation needs. Maybe Nikki Haley? That's a big maybe, but she'll probably be the next GOP nominee not named Donald Trump.
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06-22-2018, 10:13 AM
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#13
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Are any of these things anywhere near as important, as policy?
Trump's political skill is beyond measure, otherwise Hilary would be POTUS. The biggest jerk ever, beat (crushed) the most inevitable candidate ever.
Trump maybe has the lowest emotional intelligence (whatever that is) ever, but who cares. I mean he's embarrassing, but I'd rather have an effective jerk than a decent guy who is clueless.
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You could have the greatest policy in the world but history won't care if it only is in thought.
Political skill is more than getting elected.
You need to be able to get enough of a group to be able to enact thru legislation the things you want and not give up too much. If you don't get the legislation the next guy can wipe your work off the board. Look at the last president.
Here's a definition for you, success however is always subject to definition.
e·mo·tion·al in·tel·li·gence
noun
the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one's emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.
"emotional intelligence is the key to both personal and professional success"
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-22-2018, 11:27 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
You could have the greatest policy in the world but history won't care if it only is in thought.
Political skill is more than getting elected.
You need to be able to get enough of a group to be able to enact thru legislation the things you want and not give up too much. If you don't get the legislation the next guy can wipe your work off the board. Look at the last president.
Here's a definition for you, success however is always subject to definition.
e·mo·tion·al in·tel·li·gence
noun
the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one's emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.
"emotional intelligence is the key to both personal and professional success"
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Ok for Gods sake, if something isn't implemented it's not policy, it's an idea. If it makes you feel better, I mean "implemented policy" is a million times more important than the soft skills you listed.
"Political skill is more than getting elected"
agreed. He also brought the NFL and ESPN to their knees, got Neil Gosrich confirmed, is helping the economy roll along, has terrorists on the run, got hos tax cuts passed.
"You need to be able to get enough of a group to be able to enact thru legislation the things you want "
That's obviously true, and it's equally obvious that he has that, it's not like everything he wants to do is getting blocked. He's doing a lot.
"emotional intelligence is the key to both personal and professional success"
well Trump is a billionaire, married to a hottie, who defied the odds and crushed the favorite candidate to get elected POTUS. So if emotional intelligence is "the" key to success, then he must have emotional intelligence coming out of his ears.
He's not a good guy, but he's a success by any definition.
In my opinion, "emotional intelligence" is the bullsh*t term-de-jour of human resources folks and motivational speakers who want to get paid to try to convince us that it's "the" key to success., and only they can help us harness the power of "the" key to success.
Last edited by Jim in CT; 06-22-2018 at 11:33 AM..
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06-22-2018, 12:39 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: new milford,ct.
Posts: 86
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Damn. Clearly I've been working from the wrong list all these years.Would've thought "character" would make the top 6. Thank God there are guys like Fred Greenstein to make lists and opine, and other guys who attach weight to their drivel. Otherwise,the rest of us might think for ourselves.
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06-22-2018, 12:48 PM
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#16
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebunker
Damn. Clearly I've been working from the wrong list all these years.Would've thought "character" would make the top 6. Thank God there are guys like Fred Greenstein to make lists and opine, and other guys who attach weight to their drivel. Otherwise,the rest of us might think for ourselves.
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Some might say that Character was assumed, but that does explain the last election.
Since Character was not on the list it was not accounted for, by either party.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-22-2018, 02:35 PM
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#17
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Middleboro MA
Posts: 17,123
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and you can add in morality and integrity
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The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.
1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!
It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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06-22-2018, 06:06 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipknot
and you can add in morality and integrity
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Bill Clinton was a pretty good potus, and morality and decency had nothing to do with it. He was a scumbag, a complete and utter scumbag.
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06-22-2018, 06:54 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,591
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I didn’t read all ththe pst posts but what I think is needed to make a great president is to take the reigns and put aside EVERYTHING to do what is best for all people of this country and not pander to one party over another. It’s pretty obvious none of that is going on now
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06-22-2018, 08:14 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Who was the last president who did not pander to his party Nebe?
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06-22-2018, 08:32 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe
I didn’t read all ththe pst posts but what I think is needed to make a great president is to take the reigns and put aside EVERYTHING to do what is best for all people of this country and not pander to one party over another. It’s pretty obvious none of that is going on now
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Trump thinks he is doing what is best for all the people. Obama thought he was doing that. The Bush's thought they were doing that. Carter thought he was doing that. Nixon, Kennedy, Eisenhower, etc., etc., thought they were doing that. I just can't get myself to admit that Clinton thought that.
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06-22-2018, 08:36 PM
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#22
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,456
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And yet he was only the second president to balance the budget
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06-22-2018, 08:49 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bethany CT
Posts: 2,877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Trump's political skill is beyond measure, otherwise Hilary would be POTUS. The biggest jerk ever, beat (crushed) the most inevitable candidate ever.
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He is good at inciting anger. He beat the most hated candidate ever. There are plenty of people here and all over america who would never vote for her no matter what. That is not political skill beyond measure. You are demonstrating your math skills again when you say he crushed her. 45 of 58 of presidential elections were won by larger margins in the electoral college (that is 77.6% were won by more; his victory is in the bottom 1/4 of all margins) and he lost the popular vote by 3 million.
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No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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06-22-2018, 09:30 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
Trump thinks he is doing what is best for all the people.
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Trump is doing what he thinks is best for Trump. Many if not most of our Presidents have had big egos which isn’t a bad thing. This is different.
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06-22-2018, 09:46 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
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What trump is doing is creating a circus to distract us from the fact that they are dismantling the government piece by piece and taking away protections set in place for the environment. To prove this, look no further than melanoma’s jacket stunt yesterday. “I don’t care, do you?” It’s all a circus created to cause a smoke screen.
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06-22-2018, 10:09 PM
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#26
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
He is good at inciting anger. He beat the most hated candidate ever. There are plenty of people here and all over america who would never vote for her no matter what. That is not political skill beyond measure. You are demonstrating your math skills again when you say he crushed her. 45 of 58 of presidential elections were won by larger margins in the electoral college (that is 77.6% were won by more; his victory is in the bottom 1/4 of all margins) and he lost the popular vote by 3 million.
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Too much kool-aid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe
What trump is doing is creating a circus to distract us from the fact that they are dismantling the government piece by piece and taking away protections set in place for the environment. To prove this, look no further than melanoma’s jacket stunt yesterday. “I don’t care, do you?” It’s all a circus created to cause a smoke screen.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Too much weed
Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Trump is doing what he thinks is best for Trump. Many if not most of our Presidents have had big egos which isn’t a bad thing. This is different.
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Too many martinis and bad decisions at the DNC
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06-22-2018, 10:13 PM
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#27
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Registered User
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Location: RI
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06-23-2018, 05:25 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
He is good at inciting anger. He beat the most hated candidate ever. There are plenty of people here and all over america who would never vote for her no matter what. That is not political skill beyond measure. You are demonstrating your math skills again when you say he crushed her. 45 of 58 of presidential elections were won by larger margins in the electoral college (that is 77.6% were won by more; his victory is in the bottom 1/4 of all margins) and he lost the popular vote by 3 million.
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He’s good at angering the other side. You’re telling me that republicans are angrier than democrats? I’ll ask for the 25th time, when was the last time you saw a politically motivated riot, started by republicans? We don’t have much to be angry at at the moment, unless you live in the People’s Republic Of Connecticut.
And he crushed her, it wasn’t close. He didn’t win by a nose.
What’s on display is your inability to accept that which doesn’t serve your personal agenda.
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06-23-2018, 06:45 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
He’s good at angering the other side. You’re telling me that republicans are angrier than democrats? I’ll ask for the 25th time, when was the last time you saw a politically motivated riot, started by republicans? We don’t have much to be angry at at the moment, unless you live in the People’s Republic Of Connecticut.
And he crushed her, it wasn’t close. He didn’t win by a nose.
What’s on display is your inability to accept that which doesn’t serve your personal agenda.
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he crushed her? She won the popular vote...
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06-23-2018, 07:30 AM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe
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And according to the tally that actually matters, he clobbered her. He devised a campaign strategy around getting electoral votes. She, perhaps never having bothered to learn how a presidential election works, spent all her time in NYC and CA which she was going to win anyway. She spent almost no time in places like Wisconsin. Too many deplorables, I guess.
If the popular vote mattered a frog's fat ass, Trump would have campaigned differently, who knows how it would have tuned out. We cannot know. What we do know, is that as far as electoral math goes, it wasn't close.
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