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| Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
08-23-2018, 10:36 AM
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#61
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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No crime was committed till they tried to hide it.
Trump could have paid her himself or used campaign funds to pay her, either would have been legal.
Cohen could not pay it, nor could some corporate entity.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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08-23-2018, 10:47 AM
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,242
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Just read this elsewhere
Testifying under oath on Tuesday, Mr. Cohen said he arranged the payment “for the principal purpose of influencing the election,” and told the judge he knew at the time that he was doing so in violation of campaign finance laws.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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08-23-2018, 10:50 AM
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Just read this elsewhere
Testifying under oath on Tuesday, Mr. Cohen said he arranged the payment “for the principal purpose of influencing the election,” and told the judge he knew at the time that he was doing so in violation of campaign finance laws.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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The big open question is if the paper trail shows Trump understood it was a violation as well. |
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08-23-2018, 10:58 AM
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
The big open question is if the paper trail shows Trump understood it was a violation as well.
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What difference does it make if he knew it or not? A violation is a violation. Ignorance isn't a defense.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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08-23-2018, 11:17 AM
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#65
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
What difference does it make if he knew it or not? A violation is a violation. Ignorance isn't a defense.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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this is why the Clinton's have perfected and so frequently used the phrase ....."I don't recall"  |
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08-23-2018, 11:44 AM
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#66
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
No crime was committed till they tried to hide it.
Trump could have paid her himself or used campaign funds to pay her, either would have been legal.
Cohen could not pay it, nor could some corporate entity.
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First, I heard it was a crime if the intent was to impact the election. Now it has to do with Cohen's role?
Trump could take campaign contributions, and use it to pay off his mistress, that's not fraud? That's a legit use of campaign contributions?
What does Cohen's role have to do, with determining whether or not it was a crime?
Not easy to follow... |
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08-23-2018, 11:56 AM
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#67
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
First, I heard it was a crime if the intent was to impact the election. Now it has to do with Cohen's role?
Trump could take campaign contributions, and use it to pay off his mistress, that's not fraud? That's a legit use of campaign contributions?
What does Cohen's role have to do, with determining whether or not it was a crime?
Not easy to follow...
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Donald Trump (and only Donald Trump) could legally donate an unlimited amount of money to his campaign, because he was the candidate. Therefore, he would have been in the clear if he had made an in-kind donation to his campaign by paying Daniels directly with his own money. He could also have used money raised by his campaign, including his own contributions, to pay Daniels. (Trump’s campaign took in a total of $333 million, with $66 million of that coming from Trump himself.) |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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08-23-2018, 12:05 PM
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#68
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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I think being a crime or not is the reason Mueller dumped this on the Southern District of NY.
He's not really interested in a "it's not the crime, it's the coverup" issue.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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08-23-2018, 01:50 PM
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bethany CT
Posts: 2,877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
Spelling and Punctuation are pretty important when you're trying to assert your intellectual Superiority
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Pointing out where people's statements on a public forum are wrong is not trying to assert intellectual superiority. It is the point of the forum. If you guys don't like it, stop being wrong so much.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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08-23-2018, 02:25 PM
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#70
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
Pointing out where people's statements on a public forum are wrong is not trying to assert intellectual superiority. It is the point of the forum. If you guys don't like it, stop being wrong so much.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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You're wrong, haven't you heard, Truth isn't Truth and A Crime is not Crime.
Therefore no one can be wrong, they just have alternative facts and everyone gets a Neoliberal participation award. |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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08-23-2018, 02:47 PM
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Donald Trump (and only Donald Trump) could legally donate an unlimited amount of money to his campaign, because he was the candidate. Therefore, he would have been in the clear if he had made an in-kind donation to his campaign by paying Daniels directly with his own money.
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Even if Trump paid out of his own pocket he would still have to disclose it. |
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08-23-2018, 02:48 PM
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#72
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
What difference does it make if he knew it or not? A violation is a violation. Ignorance isn't a defense.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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For Trump to be looking at a criminal vs civil complaint I believe he would have had to known what he was doing was illegal. Cohen's council seems to be pretty confident he did...we'll see. |
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08-23-2018, 02:58 PM
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#73
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
Pointing out where people's statements on a public forum are wrong is not trying to assert intellectual superiority. It is the point of the forum. If you guys don't like it, stop being wrong so much.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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That was sarcasm, I don’t really think you are intellectually superior to me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 08-23-2018 at 03:09 PM..
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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08-23-2018, 03:11 PM
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#74
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
Pointing out where people's statements on a public forum are wrong is not trying to assert intellectual superiority.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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but it sure does make the liberals pissy...  |
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08-23-2018, 07:07 PM
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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I Zimmerman really still embarrassed about being Stupedd?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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08-23-2018, 07:09 PM
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Here is an explanation of what Cohen did and what he should have done, that I think is correct.
Trump is angry at Michael Cohen, of course, because Cohen just pleaded guilty to (among other things) making an illegal contribution to Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign by paying hush money to Stormy Daniels just before the election. Moreover, Cohen told the judge in the case that he did so “in coordination with and at the direction of” Trump.
Cohen’s actions were illegal because individuals may only contribute a limited amount of money or in-kind services to political campaigns. During the 2016 election, the maximum was $5,400. Cohen fraudulently obtained a home equity loan and then wired $130,000 of it to the lawyer representing Daniels on October 27, 2016.
What Trump certainly doesn’t understand, and what makes his tweet extra-wonderful, is that the problem with Cohen isn’t just that he (in Trump’s mind) betrayed Trump. It’s that Cohen is genuinely a terrible lawyer.
J.P. Morgan famously said, “I don’t know as I want a lawyer to tell me what I cannot do. I hire him to tell me how to do what I want to do.” But what Cohen managed to do was fail in both ways. He didn’t tell Trump that Trump couldn’t pay off Daniels using Cohen himself as a conduit — but he also failed to advise Trump that there was a way to do it that would have been totally legal.
Here’s how.
Donald Trump (and only Donald Trump) could legally donate an unlimited amount of money to his campaign, because he was the candidate. Therefore, he would have been in the clear if he had made an in-kind donation to his campaign by paying Daniels directly with his own money. He could also have used money raised by his campaign, including his own contributions, to pay Daniels. (Trump’s campaign took in a total of $333 million, with $66 million of that coming from Trump himself.)
In either case, Trump’s campaign would be required to disclose the expenditure. But according to the Federal Election Commission’s rules, campaign contributions and expenditures made after October 27, 2016 did not have to be disclosed until December 8. So if Trump could have put Daniels off just one more day, there would have been no public paper trail until a month after the election. And even then, the disclosed payment might not by itself expose the wrongdoing.
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Why does your opinion matter here?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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08-23-2018, 07:11 PM
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
I think being a crime or not is the reason Mueller dumped this on the Southern District of NY.
He's not really interested in a "it's not the crime, it's the coverup" issue.
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Baby needs new shewz
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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08-23-2018, 07:58 PM
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bethany CT
Posts: 2,877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
I Zimmerman really still embarrassed about being Stupedd?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Little man, you can hide behind the computer screen in your basement an be a tough guy but I have no more time for your jackasstical behavior.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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08-23-2018, 08:06 PM
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bethany CT
Posts: 2,877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
That was sarcasm, I don’t really think you are intellectually superior to me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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You should look at the post you made. There is nothing in it that implied that you think I am intellectually Superior. You weren't being sarcastic, you were being a sea dangle.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
No, no, no. we’re 30… 30, three zero.
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08-23-2018, 08:48 PM
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
Doesn’t matter if it was linked to campaign funds or private cash. If the payoffs were intended to influence the election, which Cohen said they were, and they were directed by Trump, which Cohen says they were under oath, then Trump quite likely is looking at a clearly impeachable offense.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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All campaign funds are for the purpose of influencing an election. I don't understand what you are getting at here. If the money was not a campaign finance violation, then what violation exists?
Mark Levin, referring to the federal campaign laws, says that a campaign expenditure is solely for campaign activity. A candidate who spends his own money or even corporate money for an event that occurred not as a result of a campaign is not a campaign expenditure.
The event for which the expenditure was made in this case occurred before the campaign. The expenditure, itself, is not a violation. Neither was the "event." Now if the "event" is construed as being the suppression, the hushing, of the original event, then, regardless of what Cohen said, Trump can reasonably and legitimately say that it was to hide the affair from his wife, or family. |
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08-23-2018, 08:52 PM
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
Little man, you can hide behind the computer screen in your basement an be a tough guy but I have no more time for your jackasstical behavior.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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If you don’t have time then why are you posting?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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08-23-2018, 10:36 PM
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#82
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Why does your opinion matter here?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Why does yours
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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08-23-2018, 10:37 PM
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#83
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Baby needs new shewz
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Is English your first language
What are you trying to say
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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08-24-2018, 06:41 AM
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#84
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Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 35,134
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Everyone lighten up a little please
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
What difference does it make if he knew it or not? A violation is a violation. Ignorance isn't a defense.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Maybe he did not have the *Intent* |
~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~
Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers
Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.
Apocalypse is Coming:
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08-24-2018, 10:05 AM
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
Maybe he did not have the *Intent*
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Good point, if intent is used in determining sentences (which I would think it is???). Conspiracy is used in sentencing and that is why I believe Cohen was charged w/conspiracy. |
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08-24-2018, 10:28 AM
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Prosecution is suggesting they have evidence of intent.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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08-24-2018, 02:10 PM
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#87
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,456
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For all of us want-a-be attorneys, I think it will eventually be determined by congress and not in front of the courts. You listen to Fox or Trump who just spits out whatever comes out of Fox and it’s not a crime. Of course the other networks seem to believe there was intent and a crime. I can’t see Mueller bringing charges against a sitting president, not without an iron clad case, so the report will go to congress. If the mid terms flip things and the report is daming, then it’s probably a resignation ahead of impeachment.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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08-25-2018, 07:35 PM
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#88
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,456
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As if the week wasn’t bad enough for DJT, learning the long time family accountant was given immunity in exchange for testimony, probably means Donald’s golf game is really going to suffer.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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08-28-2018, 12:28 PM
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#89
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
As if the week wasn’t bad enough for DJT, learning the long time family accountant was given immunity in exchange for testimony, probably means Donald’s golf game is really going to suffer.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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No we’ll just see more random conspiracies like regulating Google.
Regulating Google searches hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahhaha
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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08-28-2018, 02:58 PM
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#90
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
No we’ll just see more random conspiracies like regulating Google.
Regulating Google searches hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahahhaha
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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THAT.....is the LAMEST attempt at a troll I've ever seen. You're losing your touch.
I bet you can GOOGLE up some pointers on how to up your trolling skills. 
It would take extra credit just to bring the grade on that one up to a D-  |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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