How about that migrant caravan ??

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I remember a time not that long ago when conservatives would go berserk if anyone disrespected the troops let along openly denegrate them. What happened to those people?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So if you disrespect some, you disrespect all. I think there was a time not that long ago, on this forum, that you and Paul S went a little batty if "conservatives" employed that paradigm.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So if you disrespect some, you disrespect all. I think there was a time not that long ago, on this forum, that you and Paul S went a little batty if "conservatives" employed that paradigm.

Not sure I remember that but go for it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Not sure I remember that but go for it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It's in the archives.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Ian

The number that’s arriving was also supposed to be thousands strong wasn’t it? Fake news?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sa...cid=spartanntp

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/me...cid=spartanntp

[Pete F.]

Better panic
The numbers are dropping
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/22/62224...n-three-graphs
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Better panic
The numbers are dropping
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/22/62224...n-three-graphs
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

From your article:
"The increase in the number of people seeking asylum is part of a larger shift in the reasons people give for entering the U.S. at the southern border."

And:

"today, the strongest pull for people crossing the border without authorization is the desire to be with family in the U.S."

The numbers of "asylum" seekers has indeed risen. And the "larger shift" in reasons for it, as quoted above, is not a valid reason to grant them asylum.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

From your article:
"The increase in the number of people seeking asylum is part of a larger shift in the reasons people give for entering the U.S. at the southern border."

And:

"today, the strongest pull for people crossing the border without authorization is the desire to be with family in the U.S."

The numbers of "asylum" seekers has indeed risen. And the "larger shift" in reasons for it, as quoted above, is not a valid reason to grant them asylum.

In your opinion
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Better panic
The numbers are dropping
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/22/62224...n-three-graphs
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

We can still tear gas the kids though right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[DZ]

Put yourself as a parent in this situation. If I see or hear of tear gas being used I pull back to protect my children and wait my turn to enter the U.S. legally. No one wants to see kids being tear gassed but Parents/guardians carry the first line of responsibility in this situation.

[Pete F.]

300,000 +/- people are caught and deported at the southern border.
Nobody has good figures on how many are not caught.
A wall might cost between 10 and 30 billion dollars, nobody knows for sure other than that Mexico isn't paying for it and the billions don't include maintenance.
Now a 40' ladder is less than $500 and you have almost 2000 miles of border.
Build a wall, I'll buy stock in Werner.
We need a new comprehensive immigration plan and to help the nations that people are fleeing so they don't have to, along with improved border security.
Subsistence farmers facing bad guys and multiple seasons of drought with no crops are leaving because they see no other alternative, it's will likely die or might possibly die for choices in their minds. What choice would you make?

[spence]

Actually I believe a lot of the asylum seekers are small business owners, they’re not poor relatively speaking hence why they’re such a target of crime.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

This person would tell you this if you are thinking of coming to this country now.

I am a refugee living in the United States and I know what it means to escape death. Still, I warn others not to come – they won’t be safe or welcome here
Don’t come here. If you are afraid for your life and you have no place to go, don’t pick this country. It is not safe for you here any more.

If you try to cross our borders, people in military uniform called border patrol agents, will arrest you, throw you in a freezing cage and subject you to all kinds of abuses. These agents who don’t speak your language will sit you down and interrogate you. It won’t matter if you didn’t understand their questions, they will write whatever they want in dozens of forms, make you sign them, and use them against you later as they try to deport you.

You will tell them that you don’t understand the forms, but they won’t care. They will tell you that if you don’t sign them, they won’t let you go free. So you will sign them. But even after signing the forms, they will keep you caged.

Rotting food, abuses from your jailers, and how much you miss your family may make you beg to be deported. You know that your deportation will mean returning to violence and possible death, but when you realize that this country doesn’t think of you as a person, you may pick dignity and death over being caged and treated like an animal.

You might be lucky and be among the very few who are released from immigration jail and allowed to live in our country while your asylum application is pending. This won’t mean that your immigration case will be over though. Your immigration case will not be solved for years, and even though you have a case for staying in this country, the government will make you wait for years before you get a final answer.

While you wait for your case to be heard, you won’t be given any help. You will be on your own finding a job, learning English, and adjusting to this country. But you knew that before deciding to come. You are fighter, so that won’t be a problem for you. You will work long hours, find a place to lay your head, learn English, and survive. After a couple of years of hard work and sacrifices, you will feel that there is some hope for your future. Maybe, you will start believing that the American dream is attainable.

Then, something unexpected will happen. You will get sick or you will get very depressed. Maybe you will be sad because you miss your family. Because of how sick or sad you were, you will sleep in one day, miss a shift at work, and you will be fired. You will run out of money and while looking for jobs, one day you will jump the turnstile to get on a train for a job interview. To you, it was worth the risk, but you miscalculated.

You will get arrested and charged with a crime for the first time in your life. You will swear never to make a mistake again but it will be too late. This arrest will lead you back to an immigration jail similar to the one you were released from years ago. You will wait in an immigration detention center for months before you see a judge.

The day of your immigration hearing you will be wearing an orange jumpsuit and will be shackled. You will go in front of an immigration judge who will reprimand you for the mistake you committed and tell you don’t have the right to a bail hearing. You will remain in jail indefinitely while your deportation proceedings are pending.

Because you are poor, you probably won’t be able to afford a lawyer and you won’t be given one. You will have to represent yourself in one of the most complicated legal systems in the world and all in a language you likely don’t speak. The judge will tell you to bring evidence to prove the terrible things that happen to you in your home country. But you won’t be able to get it because you are detained and can’t afford phone calls or experts.

The day of your final hearing, months after you were detained, you will face a lawyer from the government who will push for your deportation. The judge, who works with the government attorney five days a week and has a good relationship with them, will listen to them over you and order your deportation.

But let’s say you don’t get deported. If for some reason, and against all the odds, you find an immigration judge that listens to your story and understands your life is at risk if you return to your country, you will be granted permission to stay here. Then, you finally may feel that something good came your way.

That feeling will go away though. You will realize that having the ability to legally work and live in this country does not mean all your problems are solved.

But even if everything works out and you are never arrested, abused, murdered, or deported, you will never feel fully welcome here. No matter how much you work, how many sacrifices you make, the contributions you made to our country and the perfect English you have, you will always feel like an undesirable guest. Everybody in our government will make sure to let you know that you are not wanted here.

I know you have heard so many wonderful things about this place. I am sure that you heard that we were a “nation of immigrants,” correct? Well, that’s a thing of the past. We even changed the mission of the government agency handling asylum applications so it is clear to you. We are now “committed to protecting Americans, securing the homeland, and honoring our values.” What values, you ask? Well, whatever we pick to justify that you are not welcome here.

What is that? You still want to come?

I know. I know you will come because I am a refugee living in the United States and I know what it means to escape death. I am so ashamed that we will do this to you and I am angry because my new country has betrayed me and every other person who believed in it. This place is not what it used to be. Just know that.

Luis Mancheno is an immigration attorney in New York. He was granted asylum in the United States in 2009 after fleeing from his native Ecuador

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

This person would tell you this if you are thinking of coming to this country now.

I am angry because my new country has betrayed me and every other person who believed in it. This place is not what it used to be. Just know that.

Luis Mancheno is an immigration attorney in New York. He was granted asylum in the United States in 2009 after fleeing from his native Ecuador

Is this guy some expert on what this country used to be? Did it used to be the alternative to living in Ecuador? What is he doing to change Ecuador? Does he believe that half of Ecuador, or more, should come here and make this country what it used to be? Will that make Ecuador a better country?

It seems, if we're to believe the narrative, that the majority of Central Americans are oppressed, in danger of death, impoverished, and at the mercy of criminals. And this guy feels they must need to come to the U.S. and help America be what it used to be.

He is not grateful for being here as a successful (I presume) attorney, but feels that he has been betrayed by his new country. And that every other person who believed in it has also been betrayed. It sounds like he would be miserable wherever he lived unless the place was a reflection of what he believed--like he is the center of the universe, and it must listen to him.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

We can still tear gas the kids though right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

are we targeting kids for tear gas? or using tear gas when rocks are thrown at border patrol agents, which has tragic collateral damage? maybe the parents of these kids, should
not place their
kids near people throwing rocks at US law enforcement.

So you see no unusual
concerns with violence in Chicago, but you have concerns with responding when people throw rocks at american law enforcement officials. at least, that response bothers you, when the POTUS is a loathsome republican.

liberal =good, conservative=bad, no exceptions. Shocker.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Is this guy some expert on what this country used to be? Did it used to be the alternative to living in Ecuador? What is he doing to change Ecuador? Does he believe that half of Ecuador, or more, should come here and make this country what it used to be? Will that make Ecuador a better country?

You've got a lot of questions for someone who only wants answers. He has an opinion on how America is now to Hispanic immigrants and a broken belief in what some think America was, I would think you would be happy with his viewpoint of Trump's America

It seems, if we're to believe the narrative, that the majority of Central Americans are oppressed, in danger of death, impoverished, and at the mercy of criminals. And this guy feels they must need to come to the U.S. and help America be what it used to be.

Where did he say that in any manner, shape or form?

He is not grateful for being here as a successful (I presume) attorney, but feels that he has been betrayed by his new country. And that every other person who believed in it has also been betrayed. It sounds like he would be miserable wherever he lived unless the place was a reflection of what he believed--like he is the center of the universe, and it must listen to him.

Chévere, we all have bad days, some would say the same about you and change.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

We can still tear gas the kids though right?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

when the previous administration used pepper spray at the border, did you express concern? or is it only problematic to you, when the potus is a republican?

how about we have one set of rules for what’s acceptable and what’s not, and we apply those rules consistently, regardless of the party of the potus? What do you say?

When obama does it, it’s worthy of the nobel peace prize.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/...order-in-2013/
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually I believe a lot of the asylum seekers are Crack dealers, they’re not poor relatively speaking hence why they’re such a target of crime.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I would not be shocked, you should adopt one.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Pete F QUOTE:
You've got a lot of questions for someone who only wants answers.

I gave some possible answers at the latter end of the post.

He has an opinion on how America is now to Hispanic immigrants and a broken belief in what some think America was, I would think you would be happy with his viewpoint of Trump's America

I perfectly understood what his ethnically apologist opinion is. And his viewpoint of Trump's America, if it is actually that, is too limited in its scope and too self-centered to do much but beg for sympathy.

"It seems, if we're to believe the narrative, that the majority of Central Americans are oppressed, in danger of death, impoverished, and at the mercy of criminals. And this guy feels they must need to come to the U.S. and help America be what it used to be. "

Where did he say that in any manner, shape or form?

In the manner, shape and form of his whole essay.

"He is not grateful for being here as a successful (I presume) attorney, but feels that he has been betrayed by his new country. And that every other person who believed in it has also been betrayed. It sounds like he would be miserable wherever he lived unless the place was a reflection of what he believed--like he is the center of the universe, and it must listen to him."
Chévere, we all have bad days, some would say the same about you and change.[QUOTE/]

I have had bad days. I presume you also had them. I'm not aware of the bad days that change has had.

[Sea Dangles]

Migrant invaders throw rocks at border agents to prove they are serious about asylum?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Migrant invaders throw rocks at border agents to prove they are serious about asylum?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's obviously fake news. The "migrants" are mostly women and children. Peaceful folk trying to escape violence. Women and children escaping violence would not throw rocks at other people.

And there aren't that many of them. Most have gone back. And they won't be arriving for awhile yet. It takes months to travel all that way on foot. So those probably aren't the migrants. Probably some local hooligans trying to make Trump look bad.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually I believe a lot of the asylum seekers are small business owners, they’re not poor relatively speaking hence why they’re such a target of crime.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I wonder who is running their small businesses while they are off seeking asylum?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

when the previous administration used pepper spray at the border, did you express concern? or is it only problematic to you, when the potus is a republican?

how about we have one set of rules for what’s acceptable and what’s not, and we apply those rules consistently, regardless of the party of the potus? What do you say?

When obama does it, it’s worthy of the nobel peace prize.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/...order-in-2013/
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

once again you cant see the forest through the Trees

and justify it with with more whataboutism .. While completely ignoring how Trump has set the table and he has given what they call His commander's intent


The White House has authorized active-duty military troops stationed along the southwest border to use lethal force

Trump himself also suggested that the US troops US-Mexico border could use deadly force and fire on someone in the migrant caravan if the person threw rocks or stones at them.

I have no issue using tear gas to disperse any Mob after a superbowl or on the border but I assure you obama never restricted border agent rules of engagement.. nor did he personally give them the green light like Trumps has .. but it seems those on the right have adopted the everyone's done it... argument ....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

once again you cant see the forest through the Trees

and justify it with with more whataboutism .. While completely ignoring how Trump has set the table and he has given what they call His commander's intent


The White House has authorized active-duty military troops stationed along the southwest border to use lethal force

Trump himself also suggested that the US troops US-Mexico border could use deadly force and fire on someone in the migrant caravan if the person threw rocks or stones at them.

I have no issue using tear gas to disperse any Mob after a superbowl or on the border but I assure you obama never restricted border agent rules of engagement.. nor did he personally give them the green light like Trumps has .. but it seems those on the right have adopted the everyone's done it... argument ....

It cracks me up, that pointing out obvious hypocrisy, is a character flaw of mine ( whataboutism), rather than a character flaw of
the hypocrites.

WDMSO, does it bother you that the obama administration also did this? Yes or
no?

I’d just like a little consistency, that’s all. If that makes me guilty of whataboutism, i could care less.

Rocks were thrown, and as far as i know, no shots were fired despite Trumps order that they kill everybody.

I don’t have a huge issue with shooting people who throw rocks at people we send to dangerous places. there’s an easy way to avoid getting shot to death - don’t throw rocks. How hard is that?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It cracks me up, that pointing out obvious hypocrisy, is a character flaw of mine ( whataboutism), rather than a character flaw of
the hypocrites.

WDMSO, does it bother you that the obama administration also did this? Yes or
no?

I’d just like a little consistency, that’s all. If that makes me guilty of whataboutism, i could care less.

Rocks were thrown, and as far as i know, no shots were fired despite Trumps order that they kill everybody.

I don’t have a huge issue with shooting people who throw rocks at people we send to dangerous places. there’s an easy way to avoid getting shot to death - don’t throw rocks. How hard is that?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

1st you don't care about hypocrisy you just use it in an attempt to defend Trump and his actions ,,, trying to suggest both are the same it's a tactic used by the right daily

and not having an issue with shooting people who throw rocks goes along way in showing your lack of character .

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

and not having an issue with shooting people who throw rocks goes along way in showing your lack of character .

Maybe you want to take that up with Micheal Chesna's Widow?

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Maybe you want to take that up with Micheal Chesna's Widow?

Ummmmm, not really.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

and not having an issue with shooting people who throw rocks goes along way in showing your lack of character .

Lack of character? You want to talk about lack of character? People who throw rocks at other people who are not doing anything to them don't show the character of anyone I want coming here.

[Sea Dangles]

Those folks are not asylum seekers. Never were assylum seekers. This is fake news being spoon fed to willing snowflakes. Open wide dummies.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Maybe you want to take that up with Micheal Chesna's Widow?

another example of the right using a fallen officer who died doing his job to support the use of deadly force on people who throw rocks ..

making the suggestion these events are the same ....

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Lack of character? You want to talk about lack of character? People who throw rocks at other people who are not doing anything to them don't show the character of anyone I want coming here.

So you either support the use of deadly force on all people in all events where things are thrown at police or you do not it's not a hard choice .

Or do you support this simply because of who they are are and where they are from

its sad that our troops in Afghanistan wouldn't shoot people who throw rocks in a combat zone .. yet some American here see no issue with the idea ... must be that MAGA thing