Welcome to 2019, when a congresswoman says “we’re going to impeach the mother——er.”

[Jim in CT]

pete i couldn’t read all that, but let me say that the willie horton ads were rough, but fair and accurate. because it worked, doesn’t mean it was racist.
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[Jim in CT]

also pete, why wasn’t your post a classic example of whataboutism? all you did, was whataboutism?

i don’t have a problem with pointing to past examples to try to prove hypocrisy. your side calls it whataboutism when my side does it, but it’s brilliant when you do it.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

who are you referring to, who doesn’t see Trumps behavior as disrespectful?
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99% of Trump supporters
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

99% of Trump supporters
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Where is the data to back up this ill informed comment? When people on this forum criticize the man,you still make these unfounded statements. How can you expect to be a credible contributor here when you constantly fail to recognize the obvious?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

also pete, why wasn’t your post a classic example of whataboutism? all you did, was whataboutism?

i don’t have a problem with pointing to past examples to try to prove hypocrisy. your side calls it whataboutism when my side does it, but it’s brilliant when you do it.
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As you have no idea what side I’m on but call me a liberal because I’m very +++ anti Trump
It absolutely is whataboutism though in Trump’s case that would be citing one case to justify Trumps many transgressions
In this case both parties have pulled this BS for years and justified it by saying their position is the one that will save us
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

pete i couldn’t read all that, but let me say that the willie horton ads were rough, but fair and accurate. because it worked, doesn’t mean it was racist.
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Neither could I
Willie Horton is a great example of fear politics
Bad things happen in a free country that’s one of the chances we take
We have the highest % of people in prison in the world, claim to be the bastion of freedom and have the highest recidivism.
Give me a rational explanation for that.
As an aside, Immigrants are a insignificant point in that equation.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Neither could I
Willie Horton is a great example of fear politics
Bad things happen in a free country that’s one of the chances we take
We have the highest % of people in prison in the world, claim to be the bastion of freedom and have the highest recidivism.
Give me a rational explanation for that.
As an aside, Immigrants are a insignificant point in that equation.
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bad things happen. but if a bad thing happens because
an idiotliberal politician decides to give weekend passes to sociopaths who hurt people, than thatnliberal politician should have to
answer for that. you disagree? it’s wrong to hold people, at least liberals, accountable?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

bad things happen. but if a bad thing happens because
an idiotliberal politician decides to give weekend passes to sociopaths who hurt people, than thatnliberal politician should have to
answer for that. you disagree? it’s wrong to hold people, at least liberals, accountable?
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Perhaps all people who might possibly commit a crime should be imprisoned, then you could feel safe.
Unless you were one of the people so judged
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Perhaps all people who might possibly commit a crime should be imprisoned, then you could feel safe.
Unless you were one of the people so judged
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willie horton wasn’t in prison for something he
might do. your hypothetical is way off. as usual, you dodged
my question. if a liberal politician advocates for policies which hurt innocent people, why is it racist fear mongering to hold him accountable?

so when the gop points out what willie horton actually did, that’s playing to racial fears. but when the democrats tried to tell us that clarence thomas can’t be trusted around women, with all
kinds of
evidence that he didn’t do anything wrong, that’s ok.

makes all kinds of sense pete. you’re blind. i could say 2+2=4, you’d immediately say i’m wrong.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

willie horton wasn’t in prison for something he
might do. your hypothetical is way off. as usual, you dodged
my question. if a liberal politician advocates for policies which hurt innocent people, why is it racist fear mongering to hold him accountable?

so when the gop points out what willie horton actually did, that’s playing to racial fears. but when the democrats tried to tell us that clarence thomas can’t be trusted around women, with all
kinds of
evidence that he didn’t do anything wrong, that’s ok.

makes all kinds of sense pete. you’re blind. i could say 2+2=4, you’d immediately say i’m wrong.
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Willie Horton is the textbook example of a dog whistle ad
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Willie Horton is the textbook example of a dog whistle ad
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do you ever answer challenging questions? what does it say about your beliefs, that you constantly dodge?
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[Jim in CT]

pete do you even know the facts? Horton was sentenced to life without parole for
murder. Some liberal idiot thought he was a good candidate for a weekend furlough program where released inmates promise that they’ll come back. well he didn’t, and while out, he raped somebody. that’s what happened, that’s exactly what happened.

do you disagree that people who think it’s a good idea to let murderers out for the weekend on the honor system, deserve criticism?

put down the kool aid, and think rationally for two seconds. just two seconds.

you look at the willie horton situation, and you aren’t bothered that a murderer was able to get a weekend pass, but you’re bothered that republicans used the event to club Dukakis with?
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Where is the data to back up this ill informed comment? When people on this forum criticize the man,you still make these unfounded statements. How can you expect to be a credible contributor here when you constantly fail to recognize the obvious?
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It’s funny when you ask for facts and numbers for a response that’s clearly Hyperbole. But no such concern for Trumps posted claims?? Or are you just inline with his
ideas.

Creditable contributor ?? Are you ?
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

It’s funny when you ask for facts and numbers for a response that’s clearly Hyperbole. But no such concern for Trumps posted claims?? Or are you just inline with his
ideas.

Creditable contributor ?? Are you ?
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I have seen you fail to recognize the obvious on countless occasions. How am I supposed to distinguish hyperbole with your track record? I am in line with SOME of his ideas,guilty. Not too sure what you mean by creditable...
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[Duke41]

Wow thanks for all the points and counter points my mind has been changed so glad for all the posts thanks everyone. Said no one ever.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

pete do you even know the facts? Horton was sentenced to life without parole for
murder. Some liberal idiot thought he was a good candidate for a weekend furlough program where released inmates promise that they’ll come back. well he didn’t, and while out, he raped somebody. that’s what happened, that’s exactly what happened.

do you disagree that people who think it’s a good idea to let murderers out for the weekend on the honor system, deserve criticism?

put down the kool aid, and think rationally for two seconds. just two seconds.

you look at the willie horton situation, and you aren’t bothered that a murderer was able to get a weekend pass, but you’re bothered that republicans used the event to club Dukakis with?
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Do a little research
Here’s what Reagan said when this happened when he was governor
Under California’s program when Reagan was governor, two prisoners murdered people while out on furlough. When critics challenged the program, Reagan defended it with a vehemence that seems impossible to fathom today. “More than 20,000 already have these passes,” he said after the first murder, “and this was the only case of this kind, the only murder.” California was “leading the nation in rehabilitation,” he said. “Obviously you can't be perfect.”
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Do a little research
Here’s what Reagan said when this happened when he was governor
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Imagine what things would look like if the GOP actually embodied RR today.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Do a little research
Here’s what Reagan said when this happened when he was governor
Under California’s program when Reagan was governor, two prisoners murdered people while out on furlough. When critics challenged the program, Reagan defended it with a vehemence that seems impossible to fathom today. “More than 20,000 already have these passes,” he said after the first murder, “and this was the only case of this kind, the only murder.” California was “leading the nation in rehabilitation,” he said. “Obviously you can't be perfect.”
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Were the people that Reagan let out, previously sentenced to life without parole for murder? If so, guess what? He deserved to be criticized for that.

I agree you cant be perfect, and I agree we need to be humane the way we treat prisoners. But letting brutal murderers out for a weekend on the honor system? I'm sorry, you're a lunatic if you think that's a good idea.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Imagine what things would look like if the GOP actually embodied RR today.
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A vague, baseless, unsubstantiated insult, from you, towards republicans? Get outa here...

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

A vague, baseless, unsubstantiated insult, from you, towards republicans? Get outa here...

How is that an insult? I used to think republicans respected RR.
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[bart]

Good for her. If Trump were to say the same his constituents would erupt in applause, commending him him for not being “politically correct” and for not acting like a traditional politician, which is is why he was ultimately elected. Anyone who supports Trump and is offended by her comments is a hypocrite and most importantly, a true “snowflake.”

As a side note, Its no secret Trump has zero regard for the environment. I’ll never understand how so called “fishermen, conservationists, environmentalists, etc” can support this assclown...someone who is set on ruining the environment that we all enjoy. A truly, irresponsible, embarrassment to the Presidency if there ever was one.

My first and last post in this cesspool of a forum called Politics.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Were the people that Reagan let out, previously sentenced to life without parole for murder? If so, guess what? He deserved to be criticized for that.

I agree you cant be perfect, and I agree we need to be humane the way we treat prisoners. But letting brutal murderers out for a weekend on the honor system? I'm sorry, you're a lunatic if you think that's a good idea.

Here’s the paragraph before the one I previously quoted
I n the mid- to late-80s, all 50 states had furlough programs. These passes allowed inmates to leave the prison for periods of time ranging from a few hours to several weeks, depending on their sentence and their behavior in prison; while in the community, they could visit family, look for work, or participate in religious activities. Almost 10 percent of state and federal prisoners received a furlough in 1987. Nationally, murderers served an average of eight years before they were paroled or commuted, so furloughs were, in the toolkit of a previous generation, an uncontroversial proposition. They offered incentives for good behavior behind bars and a good way for inmates to reacclimate to the life they would almost certainly return to outside of prison. “Use of furloughs for prisoners in the U.S. is widespread, successful and relatively problem free,” the editor of a magazine for corrections professionals told the New York Times in 1988.

When we talked to him in his office at Northeastern University, where he is a professor of politics, Dukakis said furloughs were a sensible means of protecting public safety.


MICHAEL DUKAKIS
“One of the values of a furlough program,
0:00
Dukakis points out that one of the most liberal furlough programs at the time was the one in the federal prison system under President Reagan and Vice President Bush. And under California’s program when Reagan was governor, two
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here’s the paragraph before the one I previously quoted
I n the mid- to late-80s, all 50 states had furlough programs. These passes allowed inmates to leave the prison for periods of time ranging from a few hours to several weeks, depending on their sentence and their behavior in prison; while in the community, they could visit family, look for work, or participate in religious activities. Almost 10 percent of state and federal prisoners received a furlough in 1987. Nationally, murderers served an average of eight years before they were paroled or commuted, so furloughs were, in the toolkit of a previous generation, an uncontroversial proposition. They offered incentives for good behavior behind bars and a good way for inmates to reacclimate to the life they would almost certainly return to outside of prison. “Use of furloughs for prisoners in the U.S. is widespread, successful and relatively problem free,” the editor of a magazine for corrections professionals told the New York Times in 1988.

When we talked to him in his office at Northeastern University, where he is a professor of politics, Dukakis said furloughs were a sensible means of protecting public safety.


MICHAEL DUKAKIS
“One of the values of a furlough program,
0:00
Dukakis points out that one of the most liberal furlough programs at the time was the one in the federal prison system under President Reagan and Vice President Bush. And under California’s program when Reagan was governor, two
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as always, you chose not to answer my question. Horton was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. that sentence is reserved for the most brutal of murderers ( few murderers get that sentence). yet he was given a weekend pass, as long as he gave his word that he’d come back on sunday afternoon. never occurred to anyone that he might lie about that.

i will ask again, please let me know if you don’t understand the question...are you really ok with letting inmates walk out for the weekend unsupervised, when they have been convicted of murder and sentenced to life without possibility of parole.

we have to draw the line somewhere about who gets furloughed, and no one has a crystal ball, so good faith mistakes will be made. i get that. but extending this privilege to people sentenced to life without parole, is asinine. can you tell us if reagan’s program did that? not all
murderers are equal. very few get sentenced to life without parole, that is reserved for the worst of the worst.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

as always, you chose not to answer my question. Horton was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. that sentence is reserved for the most brutal of murderers ( few murderers get that sentence). yet he was given a weekend pass, as long as he gave his word that he’d come back on sunday afternoon. never occurred to anyone that he might lie about that.

i will ask again, please let me know if you don’t understand the question...are you really ok with letting inmates walk out for the weekend unsupervised, when they have been convicted of murder and sentenced to life without possibility of parole.

we have to draw the line somewhere about who gets furloughed, and no one has a crystal ball, so good faith mistakes will be made. i get that. but extending this privilege to people sentenced to life without parole, is asinine. can you tell us if reagan’s program did that? not all
murderers are equal. very few get sentenced to life without parole, that is reserved for the worst of the worst.
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It’s easy enough to do the research on Willie Horton
We imprison more people than any other country by quantity or percentage
We have greater recidivism
We’re not safer
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It’s easy enough to do the research on Willie Horton
We imprison more people than any other country by quantity or percentage
We have greater recidivism
We’re not safer
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dodged again. i did the research on horton, convicted of
murder , sentenced to life with no parole. you think we have too many murderers locked up? we should
let them go? murderers?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

as always, you chose not to answer my question. Horton was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. that sentence is reserved for the most brutal of murderers ( few murderers get that sentence). yet he was given a weekend pass, as long as he gave his word that he’d come back on sunday afternoon. never occurred to anyone that he might lie about that.

i will ask again, please let me know if you don’t understand the question...are you really ok with letting inmates walk out for the weekend unsupervised, when they have been convicted of murder and sentenced to life without possibility of parole.

we have to draw the line somewhere about who gets furloughed, and no one has a crystal ball, so good faith mistakes will be made. i get that. but extending this privilege to people sentenced to life without parole, is asinine. can you tell us if reagan’s program did that? not all
murderers are equal. very few get sentenced to life without parole, that is reserved for the worst of the worst.
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As to your question
I honestly don’t care what happened
“The Willie Horton ad” has been used to prevent reasonable criminal justice reform ever since it ran and has cost lives and billions
Now with privatization some people are making fortunes off the system and reform or cutting recidivism is not in their interest
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[Slipknot]

Pete you dodged the question once again like Jim said

Horton had nothing to lose committing rape or any other crime while out of prison on furlough
Life is life
If they tack on more years it is still life

Good thing he did not kill you while he was out free

Get it?

How is it ok? Not some know it all bull about recidivism
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

As to your question
I honestly don’t care what happened
“The Willie Horton ad” has been used to prevent reasonable criminal justice reform ever since it ran and has cost lives and billions
Now with privatization some people are making fortunes off the system and reform or cutting recidivism is not in their interest
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it was used to try and
prevent brutal
murderers from getting weekend passes.

formthe third time, since you compared it to reagan, did he furlough murderers who were sentenced to life without parole? if not, or if you have no idea, why did you bring it up in the context of Horton?
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[Sea Dangles]

Pete is an odd duck. He thinks he is one step ahead....a real gotcha type.!
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

it was used to try and
prevent brutal
murderers from getting weekend passes.

formthe third time, since you compared it to reagan, did he furlough murderers who were sentenced to life without parole? if not, or if you have no idea, why did you bring it up in the context of Horton?
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Yes he did
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