Trump tweeted he will "Address the Nation

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I am amazed at how some of you guys can see and yet not believe anything.... Some days I think there is no hope for our great country. The evidence is overwhelming that there is a HUGE problem with our unsecured borders and you think that it's all perfectly fine....

There's the rub, nobody thinks we shouldn't pay attention to security at our borders. The evidence characterizes the problem much differently than the justification being used to push a half baked politically motivated solution.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

There's the rub, nobody thinks we shouldn't pay attention to security at our borders. The evidence characterizes the problem much differently than the justification being used to push a half baked politically motivated solution.

There has been no fully baked solution. A wall is part of the bake. The problem is being characterized by politicians on both sides. The push for "comprehensive reform" in the past was usually a ruse to put it off until other conditions were met first, such as passing continuing resolution or some such thing. The "reform" never actually followed. There is no fully baked reform plan being offered, and if we put it off till after we pass a continuing resolution, the plan will remain unbaked. That is the model, the evidence, of how it has been done to this point--your notion of how the evidence characterizes the problem notwithstanding. It depends on whose evidence.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

There has been no fully baked solution. A wall is part of the bake. The problem is being characterized by politicians on both sides. The push for "comprehensive reform" in the past was usually a ruse to put it off until other conditions were met first, such as passing continuing resolution or some such thing. The "reform" never actually followed. There is no fully baked reform plan being offered, and if we put it off till after we pass a continuing resolution, the plan will remain unbaked. That is the model, the evidence, of how it has been done to this point--your notion of how the evidence characterizes the problem notwithstanding. It depends on whose evidence.

Comprehensive plans are out there, the problem largely has been politicians that can't come to terms with the fact that undocumented immigrants are an important part of the American system.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Comprehensive plans are out there, the problem largely has been politicians that can't come to terms with the fact that undocumented immigrants are an important part of the American system.

Your laying another slick nothing egg. A variety of tactical lying.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

Comprehensive plans are out there, the problem largely has been demagogue politicians like Pelosi and Schumer that can't come to terms with the fact that Americans want our country secure and for a path for legal immigration to work better in our system so they rile up their base claiming they beat their adversary as if it is some kind of contest battle but the people see thru them unless they drink the koolaid.

fixed it for you

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Comprehensive plans are out there, the problem largely has been politicians that can't come to terms with the fact that undocumented immigrants are an important part of the American system.

No, they're not. There isn't the same demand for unskilled labor that there was a generation ago.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I am amazed at how some of you guys can see and yet not believe anything.... Some days I think there is no hope for our great country. The evidence is overwhelming that there is a HUGE problem with our unsecured borders and you think that it's all perfectly fine....

I don't understand how you can honestly think this way....

I feel the same way, every day this clown is at the helm, I fear the ship will run aground for sure. The evidence actually shows the problem is half of what it was a decade ago and if the damn wall was so important, why hasn’t the millions already appropriated been spent building something?

You claim we see but don’t believe, let me use that same logic in retort. I am convinced his base listen to the lies and BS but don’t hear. This was and continues to be about Trump making sure he makes good on his campaign promise; although clearly that can’t ever happen since Mexico isn’t paying for it.

Nobody on either side is fighting against good border security and the need to be constantly changing strategies as things change. To hold the government hostage and put government workers livelihoods at risk over political BS is just wrong.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Nobody on either side is fighting against good border security and the need to be constantly changing strategies as things change. To hold the government hostage and put government workers livelihoods at risk over political BS is just wrong.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Speaking of political bs....how about one side actually endorsing the idea and then “changing strategies” because the the president changed.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Speaking of political bs....how about one side actually endorsing the idea and then “changing strategies” because the the president changed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think the previous Congress did just that, but then couldn't accomplish anything with a new administration.
But now it's the Democrats fault

Meanwhile, I worked with Congress on a comprehensive fix, and last year, 68 Democrats, Republicans, and Independents came together to pass a bipartisan bill in the Senate. It wasn’t perfect. It was a compromise, but it reflected common sense. It would have doubled the number of border patrol agents, while giving undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship if they paid a fine, started paying their taxes, and went to the back of the line. And independent experts said that it would help grow our economy and shrink our deficits.

Had the House of Representatives allowed that kind of a bill a simple yes-or-no vote, it would have passed with support from both parties, and today it would be the law. But for a year and a half now, Republican leaders in the House have refused to allow that simple vote.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I think the previous Congress did just that, but then couldn't accomplish anything with a new administration.
But now it's the Democrats fault

Meanwhile, I worked with Congress on a comprehensive fix, and last year, 68 Democrats, Republicans, and Independents came together to pass a bipartisan bill in the Senate. It wasn’t perfect. It was a compromise, but it reflected common sense. It would have doubled the number of border patrol agents, while giving undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship if they paid a fine, started paying their taxes, and went to the back of the line. And independent experts said that it would help grow our economy and shrink our deficits.

Had the House of Representatives allowed that kind of a bill a simple yes-or-no vote, it would have passed with support from both parties, and today it would be the law. But for a year and a half now, Republican leaders in the House have refused to allow that simple vote.

Did it include funding the wall? If that was done, I suspect your bill would pass. And, I know, you don't believe the wall is necessary and would do little in stopping illegal immigration. But the other side believes it would make security overall better. Isn't that what compromise is, giving the other side something it wants if it doesn't essentially harm the goal?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I am amazed at how some of you guys can see and yet not believe anything.... Some days I think there is no hope for our great country. The evidence is overwhelming that there is a HUGE problem with our unsecured borders and you think that it's all perfectly fine....

I don't understand how you can honestly think this way....

And there were WMDS in Iraq ..... please what is there to see ? WHAT is being hidden from the nation and by whom? What evidence ?

Trumps administration constantly lies then when confronted with actual facts changes course

Sanders on Friday told “Fox & Friends” that “nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorists” had crossed into the U.S. from Mexico last year. She cited the statistic again two days later on “Fox News Sunday,”

Kellyanne Conway On Sarah Sanders’ False Border Claim: ‘Everyone Makes Mistakes’


Yea OK same mistake 2 days later.

there is no hope for our country when many who voted for Donald Trump After 2 YEARS think he is the best POTUS in their life times and is good for America

[Sea Dangles]

They are idiots with heads in sand,real snowflakes.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Drinking that High Octane Kool-aid

[Pete F.]

Here's a look back at how Trump has explained why the U.S. needs a "big, beautiful wall":
AKA slick nothing egg speeches laid by Generalissimo Donnie Bonespur and associates

June 2015

Trump wasted no time pitching his wall, weaving it into his presidential run announcement at Trump Tower in New York.

During the speech, he set up the wall promise by taking a hard-line stance against Latino immigrants, labeling migrants coming from Mexico as “people that have lots of problems,” adding that they’re bringing “drugs” and “crimes,” and going so far as to call them “rapists.” He later added that they’re also coming from “South and Latin America” and “probably from the Middle East.”

“When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best,” he said. Because of that, he promised voters that he will “build a great wall” and “will have Mexico pay for that wall.”

Mexico later denounced Trump’s claim and multiple reports have been published that show undocumented immigrants, in addition to legal immigrants, are less likely to commit crimes than native-born citizens.

September 2016

In a major immigration speech prior to the general election, Trump lamented that the U.S. doesn't know the scope of the illegal immigration problem and laid out a series of threats that he claimed immigrants posed.

Trump accused Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton of promising "uncontrolled, low-skilled immigration that continues to reduce jobs and wages for American workers, and especially for African-American and Hispanic workers within our country."

"Most incredibly, because to me this is unbelievable, we have no idea who these people are, where they come from," Trump said at the time. "I always say Trojan Horse. Watch what's going to happen, folks. It's not going to be pretty."

To combat that, Trump said the U.S. should build a wall.

"We will build a great wall along the southern border, and Mexico will pay for the wall," he said. "They don't know it yet, but they're going to pay for it. And they're great people and great leaders but they're going to pay for the wall. On Day One, we will begin working on intangible, physical, tall, power, beautiful southern border wall."


January 2017


During his first address to a joint session in Congress, the president said a wall is the answer to the “pleas of the American people for immigration enforcement and border security.” He claimed that a wall would “restore integrity and the rule of law to our borders.”

“It will be started ahead of schedule and, when finished, it will be a very effective weapon against drugs and crime,” he said.

April 2018

Trump's justification for his wall demands took on a new dimension when a migrant caravan, which consisted mostly of Central Americans, started making its way to the southern border. Trump denounced the roughly 1,000-person caravan, and said it was another reason why the United States needed a border wall.

Trump also called on Mexico to stop the migrants, and threatened to make the enforcement a condition of the new NAFTA deal that the U.S., Canada and Mexico were negotiating at the time.

The full caravan, which happens annually, did not make it to the border and instead stopped in Mexico.

October-December 2018

Prior to the midterm elections, Trump began denouncing another caravan of thousands of migrants, mostly from Honduras, as a deadly threat, and repeatedly pointed to the caravan as further proof of the need for a wall.

In a dramatic move, Trump also deployed troops to the southern border to stop the caravan, and threatened to shut down the U.S.-Mexico border.

But soon after the midterms, Trump dramatically scaled back his talk of the caravan and did not follow through on his threats to take more drastic actions.



January 4

In one of his most recent cases for the wall, Trump claimed that his predecessors expressed to him that they wished they had built a wall.

"This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me," Trump told reporters last Friday. "And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it."

However, all four living presidents have denounced Trump’s plan.

Former Presidents George W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter have released statements saying they have not discussed the border wall with the president. Barack Obama’s spokesman declined to comment, but the former president has pushed back against Trump’s pledge to build a wall in the past.

January 4-8

White House officials have falsely claimed that Customs and Border Patrol agents caught thousands of known or suspected terrorists at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Friday and throughout the weekend said that CBP had caught 4,000 known or suspected terrorists "that came across our southern border." Vice President Mike Pence on Tuesday morning also repeated that claim during an interview with "Good Morning America."


However, NBC News reported that only six non-U.S. persons that officials encountered at the southern border were on the Terrorist Screening Database from Oct. 1, 2017 to March 31, 2018. Thirty-five American citizens or lawful permanent residents that CBP came across at the U.S.-Mexico border were also on the database.

Counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway on Monday walked back the false claim, saying it was an “unfortunate misstatement.”

After the statistic was debunked, some administration officials began using a broader statistic to point to a threat along the southern border.

More than 3,000 “special interest aliens” were encountered at the southern border in 2018. However, the definition is vague and only includes that the person has traveled to or come from 35 countries labeled "special interest" following the 9/11 attacks because of historic ties to terrorism.

Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen in a series of tweets, however, noted that being on that list does not mean they are a threat to national security.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here's a look back at how Trump has explained why the U.S. needs a "big, beautiful wall":
AKA slick nothing egg speeches laid by Generalissimo Donnie Bonespur and associates

June 2015

Trump wasted no time pitching his wall, weaving it into his presidential run announcement at Trump Tower in New York.

During the speech, he set up the wall promise by taking a hard-line stance against Latino immigrants, labeling migrants coming from Mexico as “people that have lots of problems,” adding that they’re bringing “drugs” and “crimes,” and going so far as to call them “rapists.” He later added that they’re also coming from “South and Latin America” and “probably from the Middle East.”

“When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best,” he said. Because of that, he promised voters that he will “build a great wall” and “will have Mexico pay for that wall.”

Mexico later denounced Trump’s claim and multiple reports have been published that show undocumented immigrants, in addition to legal immigrants, are less likely to commit crimes than native-born citizens.

September 2016

In a major immigration speech prior to the general election, Trump lamented that the U.S. doesn't know the scope of the illegal immigration problem and laid out a series of threats that he claimed immigrants posed.

Trump accused Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton of promising "uncontrolled, low-skilled immigration that continues to reduce jobs and wages for American workers, and especially for African-American and Hispanic workers within our country."

"Most incredibly, because to me this is unbelievable, we have no idea who these people are, where they come from," Trump said at the time. "I always say Trojan Horse. Watch what's going to happen, folks. It's not going to be pretty."

To combat that, Trump said the U.S. should build a wall.

"We will build a great wall along the southern border, and Mexico will pay for the wall," he said. "They don't know it yet, but they're going to pay for it. And they're great people and great leaders but they're going to pay for the wall. On Day One, we will begin working on intangible, physical, tall, power, beautiful southern border wall."


January 2017


During his first address to a joint session in Congress, the president said a wall is the answer to the “pleas of the American people for immigration enforcement and border security.” He claimed that a wall would “restore integrity and the rule of law to our borders.”

“It will be started ahead of schedule and, when finished, it will be a very effective weapon against drugs and crime,” he said.

April 2018

Trump's justification for his wall demands took on a new dimension when a migrant caravan, which consisted mostly of Central Americans, started making its way to the southern border. Trump denounced the roughly 1,000-person caravan, and said it was another reason why the United States needed a border wall.

Trump also called on Mexico to stop the migrants, and threatened to make the enforcement a condition of the new NAFTA deal that the U.S., Canada and Mexico were negotiating at the time.

The full caravan, which happens annually, did not make it to the border and instead stopped in Mexico.

October-December 2018

Prior to the midterm elections, Trump began denouncing another caravan of thousands of migrants, mostly from Honduras, as a deadly threat, and repeatedly pointed to the caravan as further proof of the need for a wall.

In a dramatic move, Trump also deployed troops to the southern border to stop the caravan, and threatened to shut down the U.S.-Mexico border.

But soon after the midterms, Trump dramatically scaled back his talk of the caravan and did not follow through on his threats to take more drastic actions.



January 4

In one of his most recent cases for the wall, Trump claimed that his predecessors expressed to him that they wished they had built a wall.

"This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me," Trump told reporters last Friday. "And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it."

However, all four living presidents have denounced Trump’s plan.

Former Presidents George W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter have released statements saying they have not discussed the border wall with the president. Barack Obama’s spokesman declined to comment, but the former president has pushed back against Trump’s pledge to build a wall in the past.

January 4-8

White House officials have falsely claimed that Customs and Border Patrol agents caught thousands of known or suspected terrorists at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Friday and throughout the weekend said that CBP had caught 4,000 known or suspected terrorists "that came across our southern border." Vice President Mike Pence on Tuesday morning also repeated that claim during an interview with "Good Morning America."


However, NBC News reported that only six non-U.S. persons that officials encountered at the southern border were on the Terrorist Screening Database from Oct. 1, 2017 to March 31, 2018. Thirty-five American citizens or lawful permanent residents that CBP came across at the U.S.-Mexico border were also on the database.

Counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway on Monday walked back the false claim, saying it was an “unfortunate misstatement.”

After the statistic was debunked, some administration officials began using a broader statistic to point to a threat along the southern border.

More than 3,000 “special interest aliens” were encountered at the southern border in 2018. However, the definition is vague and only includes that the person has traveled to or come from 35 countries labeled "special interest" following the 9/11 attacks because of historic ties to terrorism.

Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen in a series of tweets, however, noted that being on that list does not mean they are a threat to national security.

Old news.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I think most people are in favor of border security, just not a big tall beautiful etc etc wall from sea to shining sea.
If the Generalissimo was a skilled politician and negotiater rather than a reality tv star he would probably be able to obtain what is needed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think he would be more popular if he would handle what his opponents or the Press say about him more like Reagan did. But that won't happen. And it would only be the backing of public popularity that would persuade his opponents to compromise. He doesn't seem to lack negotiating skills outside of dealing with Democrats. This is a critical time in determining the direction the country will take, especially for the Progressive agenda. And Trump, being an outsider to the normal politicking that has been so favorable to that agenda over the last several decades, makes him a threat that needs to be squelched. So, without a large public support that can scare the Dems into compromising, they won't. And the Progressive minded Republicans may not ultimately back him.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I think he would be more popular if he would handle what his opponents or the Press say about him more like Reagan did. But that won't happen. And it would only be the backing of public popularity that would persuade his opponents to compromise. He doesn't seem to lack negotiating skills outside of dealing with Democrats. This is a critical time in determining the direction the country will take, especially for the Progressive agenda. And Trump, being an outsider to the normal politicking that has been so favorable to that agenda over the last several decades, makes him a threat that needs to be squelched. So, without a large public support that can scare the Dems into compromising, they won't. And the Progressive minded Republicans may not ultimately back him.

I think you’re close but I think the old school republicans don’t like him seizing control of the Republican Party and are looking to their vision of the future.
Trump is not growing the party, he is reducing it. People who identify as leaning republican are put off by his failure to be or inability to appear to be a truthful leader. Put that in just for you.
These guys are shrewd longtime politicians with long term goals and they will not be Nixoned again.
Either he pulls this off and skates thru the investigation issues or they turn and he’s gone.
If he’s gone I am not sure that Pence will be allowed to pardon him. They want to win the next election or at the very least be in a positive position, not viewed as enabling.
There’s a reason McConnell has been invisible and Graham has been helping.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Does that Oval Office ten minute attempt to excite fear surprise anyone, it’s another rally based on fear and it’s the same old BS.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Does that Oval Office ten minute attempt to excite fear surprise anyone, it’s another rally based on fear and it’s the same old BS.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Were his facts wrong? Did he say 90% of the heroin in the US comes through that border?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Were his facts wrong? Did he say 90% of the heroin in the US comes through that border?

Wrong or misleading, pretty much all of it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Were his facts wrong? Did he say 90% of the heroin in the US comes through that border?

Yes most comes from Mexico but not in backpacks across the border, but even facts disproving his allegation would not be believed by the base; don’t confuse me with facts our minds are made up mentality continues.

Want to stop heroin, it’s not by building a wall, it’s by reducing the demand. For every horrific crime he highlighted, we could find tens of thousands of equally disturbing crimes committed by white citizens. Trump run on fear and division, he governs by the same MO and last night was just same old same old.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Yes most comes from Mexico but not in backpacks across the border, but even facts disproving his allegation would not be believed by the base; don’t confuse me with facts our minds are made up mentality continues.

Want to stop heroin, it’s not by building a wall, it’s by reducing the demand. For every horrific crime he highlighted, we could find tens of thousands of equally disturbing crimes committed by white citizens. Trump run on fear and division, he governs by the same MO and last night was just same old same old.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"citizens"...key word


I'm scared...are you scared??? ...good grief...you crazy leftists keep talking yourselves into a tizzy....must be exhausting

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

For every horrific crime he highlighted, we could find tens of thousands of equally disturbing crimes committed by white citizens.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

BUT THE WHITE CITIZENS HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HERE.

God you are missing that point entirely. Obviously, more crime (in absolute numbers) is committed by citizens, because there are so many more citizens. But we know that Mexican gangs are using the open border to come in, and they are doing some horrific things. It's not worth trying to stop that?

And let me ask you this, as you're against the wall, but in favor of (I think) drones and cameras. If a camera spots a pack of MS13 members crossing the border 20 miles away from the nearest cops, how do you stop them from entering, exactly?

Cameras and drones might be great for spotting who is coming in, and counting them. How do things like cameras and drones stop these people from entering, if we're talking about 1,000 miles of border?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I knew this speech would bring out the flakes,keep it coming guys.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? "

You are absolutely 100% correct. Trump campaigned on this issue, it wasa huge reason why he won the primary, and the GOP controlled congress for 2 years, and they did nothing. A lot of republican voters are ticked off. It won't make us vote for democrats, but we are mighty ticked off. You are absolutely 100% correct, it's sleazy for him to say that the dems are the only reason we don't have a wall. I don't know why they didn't do it when they could have.

"Fear fear fear"

A couple thousand murders? If his crime stats are accurate, don't places with high numbers of illegals, maybe have a legitimate concern? Just as it's wrong for Trump to refuse to accept some blame for not having the wall yet, it's equally wrong (in my opinion) for democrats and the media to say it's a manufactured crisis. The democrats passed some big bills in 2006 and 2013 to tackle immigration, so it seemed like they thought it was a crisis then.

Both sides are way more interested in using this issue as a club against their opponents, than they are in fixing it. This is a great example of why congress has a dismal approval rating, and they deserve it.

"Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank... "

Did you say the same thing when Obama oversaw a shutdown? Be honest...

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I thought he made some good points (IF his stats are accurate, and I don't know if they are, Spence says they were all wrong, but as expected, doesn't provide better sources with less scary stats).

But it was still too Trump-like in my opinion, too divisive. I think he could have improved his image by saying that he could have done this while the GOP controlled congress, but he blew it.

Both sides have been saying this is a crisis (despite the fact that today dems say it's not a crisis, that's not what they said not long ago), both sides campaign on this issue, and both sides have had control of the entire federal government for two years and did nothing.

Now, as you said, the pundits all came out to howl at the moon as soon as he was done. Their response, was as predictable, dishonest, and politically divisive as his speech.

I would genuinely like to know if his statistics were correct.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

BUT THE WHITE CITIZENS HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HERE.

God you are missing that point entirely. Obviously, more crime (in absolute numbers) is committed by citizens, because there are so many more citizens. But we know that Mexican gangs are using the open border to come in, and they are doing some horrific things. It's not worth trying to stop that?

And let me ask you this, as you're against the wall, but in favor of (I think) drones and cameras. If a camera spots a pack of MS13 members crossing the border 20 miles away from the nearest cops, how do you stop them from entering, exactly?

Cameras and drones might be great for spotting who is coming in, and counting them. How do things like cameras and drones stop these people from entering, if we're talking about 1,000 miles of border?

You're correct, total meltdown in progress

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I think you’re close but I think the old school republicans don’t like him seizing control of the Republican Party and are looking to their vision of the future.
Trump is not growing the party, he is reducing it. People who identify as leaning republican are put off by his failure to be or inability to appear to be a truthful leader. Put that in just for you.
These guys are shrewd longtime politicians with long term goals and they will not be Nixoned again.
Either he pulls this off and skates thru the investigation issues or they turn and he’s gone.
If he’s gone I am not sure that Pence will be allowed to pardon him. They want to win the next election or at the very least be in a positive position, not viewed as enabling.
There’s a reason McConnell has been invisible and Graham has been helping.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I have no ability to predict with any degree of confidence what the future will be. What you say is plausible, but it is the very kind of political party machination that drove voters away from Trump's Republican opponents in the primaries and into choosing him.

A lot of folks were plain sick and tired of politics as usual and with politicians speaking the same old smooth but phony rhetoric. Trump was the bull in the china shop that smashed the typical stock of imitation figurines. He was an actual "agent of change." And if voters see that the old school Republicans you refer to are acting like typical power mongers who are trying to destroy him in order to seize back power, they may very well give Trump the nod again.

Regardless of the outcome, what you describe is not, to me, savory, but reeks of lying and treachery. Of course, that is the nature of party politics.

[wdmso]

Fear fear fear then a break to blame Democrats

( he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? this national emergency magically appeared !!! again funny how that works.

and even funner how his supporters here avoid that part of History like the plague

then fear fear fear god bless America ..

Sounds a lot like Trump is using locked out tactics

A lockout is generally to try to enforce terms upon a group of lawmakers during a dispute. lockout to convince the House to back down.

Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank...

Trump Hurting Americans to save Americans

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Fear fear fear then a break to blame Democrats

( he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? this national emergency magically appeared !!! again funny how that works.

and even funner how his supporters here avoid that part of History like the plague

then fear fear fear god bless America ..

Sounds a lot like Trump is using locked out tactics

A lockout is generally to try to enforce terms upon a group of lawmakers during a dispute. lockout to convince the House to back down.

Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank...

Trump Hurting Americans to save Americans

"he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? "

You are absolutely 100% correct. Trump campaigned on this issue, it wasa huge reason why he won the primary, and the GOP controlled congress for 2 years, and they did nothing. A lot of republican voters are ticked off. It won't make us vote for democrats, but we are mighty ticked off. You are absolutely 100% correct, it's sleazy for him to say that the dems are the only reason we don't have a wall. I don't know why they didn't do it when they could have.

"Fear fear fear"

A couple thousand murders? If his crime stats are accurate, don't places with high numbers of illegals, maybe have a legitimate concern? Just as it's wrong for Trump to refuse to accept some blame for not having the wall yet, it's equally wrong (in my opinion) for democrats and the media to say it's a manufactured crisis. The democrats passed some big bills in 2006 and 2013 to tackle immigration, so it seemed like they thought it was a crisis then.

Both sides are way more interested in using this issue as a club against their opponents, than they are in fixing it. This is a great example of why congress has a dismal approval rating, and they deserve it.

"Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank... "

Did you say the same thing when Obama oversaw a shutdown? Be honest...

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? "

You are absolutely 100% correct. Trump campaigned on this issue, it wasa huge reason why he won the primary, and the GOP controlled congress for 2 years, and they did nothing. A lot of republican voters are ticked off. It won't make us vote for democrats, but we are mighty ticked off. You are absolutely 100% correct, it's sleazy for him to say that the dems are the only reason we don't have a wall. I don't know why they didn't do it when they could have.

"Fear fear fear"

A couple thousand murders? If his crime stats are accurate, don't places with high numbers of illegals, maybe have a legitimate concern? Just as it's wrong for Trump to refuse to accept some blame for not having the wall yet, it's equally wrong (in my opinion) for democrats and the media to say it's a manufactured crisis. The democrats passed some big bills in 2006 and 2013 to tackle immigration, so it seemed like they thought it was a crisis then.

Both sides are way more interested in using this issue as a club against their opponents, than they are in fixing it. This is a great example of why congress has a dismal approval rating, and they deserve it.

"Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank... "

Did you say the same thing when Obama oversaw a shutdown? Be honest...

Please this shut down is not remotely the same as Obama’s shut down but once agin you show your skills off suggesting they are the same

Yes dems passed bills so have reps on the issue but Trump keeps moving the goalposts on his own team

Are Trump or his supporters familiar with the fable of the boy who cried wolf? Because it’s playing out now in the White House l
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Please this shut down is not remotely the same as Obama’s shut down but once agin you show your skills off suggesting they are the same

Yes dems passed bills so have reps on the issue but Trump keeps moving the goalposts on his own team

Are Trump or his supporters familiar with the fable of the boy who cried wolf? Because it’s playing out now in the White House l
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"this shut down is not remotely the same as Obama’s shut down "

Stop moving the goalposts. I was responding to your post, where you implied that shutdowns are wrong because of their impact on federal workers. That's what you said, and that's what I was responding to.

From the perspective of workers who didn't get paid, what was the difference between the two shutdowns?

"you show your skills off suggesting they are the same"

Never implied they were the same. But didn't both result in workers not getting paid? What's on display here, is your inability to admit your side plays these games too, and that it's equally wrong regardless of who does it. Nope. Political gamesmanship is only bothersome to you, when the GOP does it. I was pretty critical of the GOP in my response to you. When I mentioned Obama's shutdown, you can't bring yourself to say that also hurt federal workers, all you can do is say "it wasn't the same as this". OK, I tried engaging you like an adult, and it was a waste.

"Are Trump or his supporters familiar with the fable of the boy who cried wolf? Because it’s playing out now in the White House "

Tell that to the widow and 5 month-old left behind by Officer Singh.

Did that cop get murdered by an illegal who had two DUIs here? yes or no? Did the GOP fabricate it, or did it happen? I fit happened, how many Americans like that cop are you willing to sacrifice on the alter of liberalism, before you can admit that there's a problem?

Boy who cried wolf. Unfreakinbelievable.

You're a sheep. You cannot think critically, you can regurgitate what you hear on MSNBC, that's all. GOP is b-a-a-a-a-d.


.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Please this shut down is not remotely the same as Obama’s shut down but once agin you show your skills off suggesting they are the same

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Actually, Obama's was worse as it affected every Department. This one doesn't affect a lot of the DoD as they are already funded through 2019