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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
06-13-2019, 12:58 PM
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#91
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Missed the next sentences.
Both poverty and rising inequality are largely consequences of America’s failing education system. Fix that, I believed, and we could cure much of what ails America.
Nope, Nick Hanauer wrote an article in the latest issue of the Atlantic that he feels explains why not.
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I didn't miss them, you said America's education system was failing, I asked was it the system that was failing or the people failing to use it. Then you said neither.
The other stuff you posted was really just white noise to what I responded to.
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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06-13-2019, 01:29 PM
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#92
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Pete, why is income inequality bad? if bill gates stops working, or if he burns all of his money, is anyone better off?
we need to help
those at the bottom, i agree. their salvation comes nit from confiscating what others have and giving it to them, but in helping them to help themselves.
Income inequality is complete bullsh*t unless you believe that aggregate wealth is finite. Do you believe that if Gates earns $1m today, that means there’s $1m less for the rest of us? if you believe that you’re an ignoramus, if you don’t believe it then you shouldn’t worry about income inequality. those with money, have an easier time
making more
money, that’s basic mathematical reality, it’s not bad, you can’t stop it and there’s no reason to try.
rich people
aren’t causing anyone else’s poverty ( most of the time). you solve a problem by addressing the cause, and one persons poverty is t caused by another persons
wealth.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-13-2019, 01:48 PM
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#93
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
rich people
aren’t causing anyone else’s poverty
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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have you seen California lately????
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06-13-2019, 01:54 PM
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#94
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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oh good....
The New York State Assembly on Wednesday passed legislation granting illegal immigrants the right to obtain a driver’s license by presenting foreign documentation.
The “Green Light” bill, which passed 86–50 along party lines, must now pass the state senate before moving to the desk of Democratic governor Andrew Cuomo, who has said he would sign it.
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06-13-2019, 04:46 PM
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#95
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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The system works if allowed to. Nobody wants to give away money to the clingers. You can get a great education in public or private or Catholic high school. There is always plenty of money for the underprivileged to attend ANY school. In this area at at least. These are great times but some want to fret. There will not be free education soon but Liz Warren is advocating....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-13-2019, 10:11 PM
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#96
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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So Americans are better educated than ever
The gap between the wealthy and middle class is greater than ever
The wealthy control Congress
There’s no issue
And if you think there is your a socialist
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-13-2019, 10:28 PM
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#97
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
So Americans are better educated than ever
The gap between the wealthy and middle class is greater than ever
The wealthy control Congress
There’s no issue
And if you think there is your a socialist
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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It's difficult to have a conversation with you. You put words in peoples mouths. You go to extremes. You veer off in different tangents. Maybe, when you attempt to respond or converse, you are actually talking to yourself. Sort of having a conversation running through your brain that gets triggered by various words mentioned by those you presumably respond to but which somehow get transfigured into a different context than that which was proffered. A context that satisfies some impulse to be right, to defend some point of view--which might suddenly take on a different shade or different direction.
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06-14-2019, 08:24 AM
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#98
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Pete, why is income inequality bad? if bill gates stops working, or if he burns all of his money, is anyone better off?
we need to help
those at the bottom, i agree. their salvation comes nit from confiscating what others have and giving it to them, but in helping them to help themselves.
Income inequality is complete bullsh*t unless you believe that aggregate wealth is finite. Do you believe that if Gates earns $1m today, that means there’s $1m less for the rest of us? if you believe that you’re an ignoramus, if you don’t believe it then you shouldn’t worry about income inequality. those with money, have an easier time
making more
money, that’s basic mathematical reality, it’s not bad, you can’t stop it and there’s no reason to try.
rich people
aren’t causing anyone else’s poverty ( most of the time). you solve a problem by addressing the cause, and one persons poverty is t caused by another persons
wealth.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Jim,
It's not poverty that is the problem, it's the shrinking of opportunity for people.
Its because nearly all the benefits of economic growth have been captured by large corporations and their shareholders.
Controlling the flow of capital so that you can capture incrementally more is how you win and the middle class has no chance in that game.
If you do it long enough you control the banks, the means of production and distribution and the government. Forty years ago when I was in my twenties I could call the loan officer at the local bank and get a loan, today that same bank is part of a large corporation with little involvement in the community. That holds true for almost everything we buy today, from fishing equipment to groceries and clothes.
This happened in the Gilded Age and history is repeating, it does that.
Corporations buy up profitable small businesses, reduce management costs per unit and buy more small businesses.
Then they start on each other.
The number of publicly traded corporations has been reduced greatly in the past twenty years, roughly by half.
Corporations have been gobbling up their competition for the past twenty years. The easiest way to control the market is eliminate your competition and the easiest example is any of the FAANG who buy anyone who could compete.
The vast majority of shares are held by the wealthiest people in the US. After-tax corporate profits have doubled from about 5 percent of GDP in 1970 to about 10 percent, even as wages as a share of GDP have fallen by roughly 8 percent. And the wealthiest 1 percent’s share of pre-tax income has more than doubled, from 9 percent in 1973 to 21 percent today. Taken together, these two trends amount to a shift of more than $2 trillion a year from the middle class to corporations and the super-rich.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-14-2019, 08:33 AM
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#99
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
It's difficult to have a conversation with you. You put words in peoples mouths. You go to extremes. You veer off in different tangents. Maybe, when you attempt to respond or converse, you are actually talking to yourself. Sort of having a conversation running through your brain that gets triggered by various words mentioned by those you presumably respond to but which somehow get transfigured into a different context than that which was proffered. A context that satisfies some impulse to be right, to defend some point of view--which might suddenly take on a different shade or different direction.
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Didn't know I was having a conversation with you, but you certainly seem to think you have clairvoyant abilities.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-14-2019, 09:02 AM
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#100
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Jim,
it's the shrinking of opportunity for people.
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this is insanity
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06-14-2019, 09:25 AM
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#101
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Didn't know I was having a conversation with you, but you certainly seem to think you have clairvoyant abilities.
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It was a general statement based not on clairvoyance, but on observation of your deking, dodging, changing subject, and responding to words that were not spoken--as in your last response to Dangles.
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06-14-2019, 10:23 AM
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#102
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
It was a general statement based not on clairvoyance, but on observation of your deking, dodging, changing subject, and responding to words that were not spoken--as in your last response to Dangles.
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Thank you for your diligent policing of the internet, it's obvious Dangles needs your assistance.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-14-2019, 10:30 AM
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#103
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Scott,
The result is the same if corporations or government control the banks, the means of production and distribution and the government.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-14-2019, 10:34 AM
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#104
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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To some the glass is half empty.
Others act as the sky is falling.
Things look fine from my toilet. Retirement is looking better all the time. Kids have jobs with a great future. It has not been easy admittedly but this is a great time in America. Enjoy it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-14-2019, 10:35 AM
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#105
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Thank you for your diligent policing of the internet, it's obvious Dangles needs your assistance.
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You're welcome. I try to help whenever I can.
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06-14-2019, 10:38 AM
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#106
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Jim,
It's not poverty that is the problem, it's the shrinking of opportunity for people.
Its because nearly all the benefits of economic growth have been captured by large corporations and their shareholders.
Controlling the flow of capital so that you can capture incrementally more is how you win and the middle class has no chance in that game.
If you do it long enough you control the banks, the means of production and distribution and the government. Forty years ago when I was in my twenties I could call the loan officer at the local bank and get a loan, today that same bank is part of a large corporation with little involvement in the community. That holds true for almost everything we buy today, from fishing equipment to groceries and clothes.
This happened in the Gilded Age and history is repeating, it does that.
Corporations buy up profitable small businesses, reduce management costs per unit and buy more small businesses.
Then they start on each other.
The number of publicly traded corporations has been reduced greatly in the past twenty years, roughly by half.
Corporations have been gobbling up their competition for the past twenty years. The easiest way to control the market is eliminate your competition and the easiest example is any of the FAANG who buy anyone who could compete.
The vast majority of shares are held by the wealthiest people in the US. After-tax corporate profits have doubled from about 5 percent of GDP in 1970 to about 10 percent, even as wages as a share of GDP have fallen by roughly 8 percent. And the wealthiest 1 percent’s share of pre-tax income has more than doubled, from 9 percent in 1973 to 21 percent today. Taken together, these two trends amount to a shift of more than $2 trillion a year from the middle class to corporations and the super-rich.
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"It's not poverty that is the problem, it's the shrinking of opportunity for people"
Agreed 100%.
"Its because nearly all the benefits of economic growth have been captured by large corporations and their shareholders"
Too much energy is dedicated to enriching large corporations and shareholders. I wouldn't say "nearly all". There are too many people who move up the economic ladder for me to buy that "nearly all" of the benefits go to big business. But I agree that too many politicians prioritize bib business over families, I agree 100%.
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06-14-2019, 10:40 AM
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#107
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Scott,
The result is the same if corporations or government control the banks, the means of production and distribution and the government.
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Yet I have a mortgage on my home at only 3.5%. Is the bank screwing me? I don't think so.
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06-14-2019, 10:53 AM
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#108
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Scott,
The result is the same if corporations or government control the banks, the means of production and distribution and the government.
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Not if, but when. Corporations can't control without government acceptance, approval, partnership, sanction, rubber stamp. Actually, on the other hand, government can control without corporate approval.
The symbiotic relationship between corporations and government, in which government is the ultimate regulator, and upon which corporations must acquiesce, is the progressive model (as is also the case in other forms of authoritarian regimes).
The Progressive model is government regulatory control of banks and business and societal as well as individual "rights." All, of course, under the rubric of what is best for society--what is the most realizable utopia--as in your "progressive capitalism."
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06-14-2019, 10:55 AM
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#109
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
To some the glass is half empty.
Others act as the sky is falling.
Things look fine from my toilet. Retirement is looking better all the time. Kids have jobs with a great future. It has not been easy admittedly but this is a great time in America. Enjoy it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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I think the deck is stacked in favor of the powerful and connected to some extent. If I wanted to go to Harvard and be an executive VP at Goldman Sachs and have a summer home in Watch Hill, sure it helps if my family has connections, which we don't. But if I want to be upper middle class and still be home for dinner most nights and take my kids to Disney every few years, there are plenty of ways to do that. I think it's a little harder than it should be, but still within reach of most of us. You have to work hard, and it really helps to have good parents to set kids on the right path.
I've said this before, there is a family that owns the local Shell station and convenience store near my house, they came here from Liberia, literally with nothing. They now own that business, their kids are college graduates, one is in medical school. every town in the country has families with the same exact story, and many are refugees because they don't take anything for granted and are willing to work insanely hard to get what they want. If big business runs everything, how did they pull that off? The answer is love and hard work, but our grievance and entitled culture doesn't want to hear about such things.
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06-14-2019, 11:10 AM
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#110
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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How many owner operated gas/convenience stores have you seen in the past few years?
How many have been bought by corporations and now have hired help paid minimum wage or slightly above and a remote manager.
Is the gas or items less expensive at the corporate store?
Those anecdotes are getting fewer and fewer around here, there are a couple in this county where there were one or two in each town.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-14-2019, 11:28 AM
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#111
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
How many owner operated gas/convenience stores have you seen in the past few years?
How many have been bought by corporations and now have hired help paid minimum wage or slightly above and a remote manager.
Is the gas or items less expensive at the corporate store?
Those anecdotes are getting fewer and fewer around here, there are a couple in this county where there were one or two in each town.
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"How many owner operated gas/convenience stores have you seen in the past few years?"
I don't keep track. But many industries are being swallowed up by a small number of huge companies, you're right. This makes it harder to get ahead, but not impossibly so. There's fewer paths to independence, and smaller margin of error. And working for a large company is more demanding and less rewarding than it was in my father's time for sure.
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06-14-2019, 12:27 PM
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
I think the deck is stacked in favor of the powerful and connected to some extent.
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ya think?
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06-14-2019, 12:28 PM
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
How many owner operated gas/convenience stores have you seen in the past few years?
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I thought leftists liked centralization?
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06-14-2019, 12:29 PM
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#114
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
There's fewer paths to independence
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what??? there has never been more diverse opportunity
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06-14-2019, 01:40 PM
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#115
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
what??? there has never been more diverse opportunity
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Not in the Rust Belt. i guess i mean primarily manufacturing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-14-2019, 02:04 PM
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#116
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,197
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funny the thread was started because of a biden statement that was positive hopeful but maybe unrealistic ... the New Green deal fall into the same category.. and without fail both were attacked wholesale from the Right
But the right ignores Trumps Messages shrugs them off as mere hyperbole..
even if his words and actions are clear
Foreign Interference And 'Opposition Research' Are Not The Same
unless your Trump
Trump disputed the idea that if a foreign government provided information on a political opponent, it would be considered interference in our election process.
"It's not an interference, they have information -- I think I'd take it," Trump said. "If I thought there was something wrong, I'd go maybe to the FBI ..
"The FBI director is wrong, because frankly it doesn't happen like that in life," Trump said. "Now maybe it will start happening, maybe today you'd think differently."
the law prohibits American political campaigns from taking "a contribution or donation of money or any other thing of value" from foreigners. The ban isn't limited to money, as Justice Department investigators wrote.
But once again Trump supporters could care less that their man is willing open to defy the Law or feel it doesn't apply to him or his administration...
BUT BUT Biden 'we're gonna cure cancer' if he's elected president
Still havent seen the word I or I am in that statement
but we have seen many Trumps statements 'Mexico will pay for the wall 'I Would Accept Information On My Opponent From Foreign Governments, "It's Called Oppo Research" or Tariffs are "paid for mostly by China, by the way, not by us."
and not a peep from the usual players here who conventely have nothing to say when it come to their side which they will insist they dont have a side
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06-14-2019, 02:05 PM
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#117
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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No more local hardware store...the list goes on. I am not sure how it gets back to Leave it to Beaver. Meanwhile the middle and even lower class enjoy creature comforts and even luxuries that used to be only for the rich. A lot of people don’t grasp the context here. Seriously,who even knows people who can’t afford phones or the internet?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-14-2019, 02:10 PM
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#118
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
funny the thread was started because of a biden statement that was positive hopeful but maybe unrealistic ... the New Green deal fall into the same category.. and without fail both were attacked wholesale from the Right
But the right ignores Trumps Messages shrugs them off as mere hyperbole..
even if his words and actions are clear
Foreign Interference And 'Opposition Research' Are Not The Same
unless your Trump
Trump disputed the idea that if a foreign government provided information on a political opponent, it would be considered interference in our election process.
"It's not an interference, they have information -- I think I'd take it," Trump said. "If I thought there was something wrong, I'd go maybe to the FBI ..
"The FBI director is wrong, because frankly it doesn't happen like that in life," Trump said. "Now maybe it will start happening, maybe today you'd think differently."
the law prohibits American political campaigns from taking "a contribution or donation of money or any other thing of value" from foreigners. The ban isn't limited to money, as Justice Department investigators wrote.
But once again Trump supporters could care less that their man is willing open to defy the Law or feel it doesn't apply to him or his administration...
BUT BUT Biden 'we're gonna cure cancer' if he's elected president
Still havent seen the word I or I am in that statement
but we have seen many Trumps statements 'Mexico will pay for the wall 'I Would Accept Information On My Opponent From Foreign Governments, "It's Called Oppo Research" or Tariffs are "paid for mostly by China, by the way, not by us."
and not a peep from the usual players here who conventely have nothing to say when it come to their side which they will insist they dont have a side
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Look in the mirror and what do you see?
Now point your finger and see who that guy is pointing at.
Pretty simple but you don’t seem to get it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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06-14-2019, 02:25 PM
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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WDMSO, Biden very specifically politicized curing cancer, and he clearly did so for his own benefit. Is that true or false?
I asked Spence the same question, but he’s still hiding.
Hopeful is one thing. Exploiting the desperation of people who are dying, is something else.
Biden comes with the obnoxious and outlandish behavior that Trump delivers ( not quite to the same degree), with none of the productive policy ideas. He also promised the VP slot to Stacy Abrams, who called the offer racist. Maybe he should
ask his VP pick if they are interested, before announcing them as the pick? Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-14-2019, 03:29 PM
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#120
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
No more local hardware store...the list goes on. I am not sure how it gets back to Leave it to Beaver. Meanwhile the middle and even lower class enjoy creature comforts and even luxuries that used to be only for the rich. A lot of people don’t grasp the context here. Seriously,who even knows people who can’t afford phones or the internet?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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I'd gladly go back to keeping a dime in my wallet.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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