paying attention to debates but ignoring Trump

[Got Stripers]

I guess the 10,000 plus lies are just Trump being confused and his misstatements aren't really lies, but how can that be, he has professed to be the smartest president of all time he can’t possibly be confused😂😂😂😂😂😂
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I guess the 10,000 plus lies are just Trump being confused and his misstatements aren't really lies, but how can that be, he has professed to be the smartest president of all time he can’t possibly be confused😂😂😂😂😂😂
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I guess you actually researched and verified those 10, 000 and that they were actually lies. And none were repeats of the same "lie." And then you researched and found that no other politician told as many.
And I guess you just didn't merely repeat what you read or heard and accepted it as true. You are a very good man. And you wouldn't lie about it.

[Sea Dangles]

Clearly the greatest president of our lifetime
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Just keep believing Trump has a clue about foreign policy, he obviously has a vast knowledge of political theory, like western style liberalism being obsolete in west coast cities.
Meanwhile the rest of the worlds leaders shook their heads and took note of his lack of understanding.
The stable genius is going to leave the poker table naked and you’ll be extolling the beauty of his wardrobe.
For the last 30+ years NK has said they will consider denuclearization and never have. Now maybe having Trump in love with him will make him agree to total denuclearization, Trump has already given him far more than any prior President and gotten zip for it. Maybe Kim is his type. Today’s Rodong Sinmun headlines extol the ability of their leader and his meeting with the President of the USA.
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Again, you keep fighting little battles with me that don't exist. I have not said that he knows a great deal about foreign policy or political theory.

And then you go off into reveries of poker tables, nakedness, beautiful wardrobes (ooooooohhh, the emperor has no clothes, is this another sneaky metaphor to fortify the manufactured image of Trump as king, Nazi, fascist, dictator, destroyer of constitutions?), and of sexual innuendo--attraction to Kim (like the so-called Putin bromance and the fake characterization of Trump being aligned with, in love with, favorable to, our enemy dictators).

Perhaps I give you too much credit for constantly lying about Trump. Telling the massive, well-woven lies that you seem to do takes a certain amount of mental acuity.

But, it seems more that instead of telling potent lies, you are fighting with crazy mirages. Rather than a crafty liar, you remind me more of a Don Quixote--tilting at windmills. As in this passage from the novel:

Just then they came in sight of thirty or forty windmills that rise from that plain. And no sooner did Don Quixote see them that he said to his squire, "Fortune is guiding our affairs better than we ourselves could have wished. Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them. With their spoils we shall begin to be rich for this is a righteous war and the removal of so foul a brood from off the face of the earth is a service God will bless."

"What giants?" asked Sancho Panza.

"Those you see over there," replied his master, "with their long arms. Some of them have arms well nigh two leagues in length."

"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills. Those things that seem to be their arms are sails which, when they are whirled around by the wind, turn the millstone."

[Got Stripers]

Boy you are sure full of yourself, or wait I know what your full of😬
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Boy you are sure full of yourself, or wait I know what your full of😬
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That you profess to "know" anything personal about me, which you don't, reveals what you consider "knowing" to be--as in your knowing that Trump has told 10,000 lies and no other politician has told as much.

[Pete F.]

At least the honest media is calling them lies now.
And then you have Fox
https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/sta...910327814?s=21
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

At least the honest media is calling them lies now.
And then you have Fox
https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/sta...910327814?s=21
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All 10,000? And do they say that no other politician has told 10,000 lies? This is another little lie by you. The lie of sliding from the parameter of 10,000 and no other politician into the less definitive parameter of "them lies," whatever that is--any shifty slant that gives the impression of truth to that which is not, nor can be, verified.

The Daily Show is "honest media"?

[scottw]

they are just yelling at the padded walls as this point

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

All 10,000? And do they say that no other politician has told 10,000 lies? This is another little lie by you. The lie of sliding from the parameter of 10,000 and no other politician into the less definitive parameter of "them lies," whatever that is--any shifty slant that gives the impression of truth to that which is not, nor can be, verified.

The Daily Show is "honest media"?

Many people say Donald Trump has lied more than 10,000 times. I mean a lot of people have told me that.
Here is a small sampling:
"The Obama administration was begging for a meeting" with Kim Jong Un.
California "admitted" there were "a million" illegal votes in the 2016 presidential election.
"There has never been, ever before, an administration that’s been so open and transparent."
The Russia investigation "was a coup. This was an attempted overthrow of the United States government."
"In the ‘old days’ if you were president and you had a good economy, you were basically immune from criticism."
"The noise (from windmills) causes cancer."
Says his father, Fred Trump, was "born in a very wonderful place in Germany."
When Congress sought documents from President Barack Obama, the White House "didn’t do anything. They didn’t give one letter of the request. Many requests were made. They didn’t give a letter."
Says former Sen. Harry Reid "got thrown out."
"The reason Russia was in Afghanistan was because terrorists were going into Russia."
Says troops recently received "one of the biggest pay raises" ever, and that it was the first pay increase in "more than 10 years."
Says 19,000 text messages exchanged between former FBI officials that were "purposely and illegally deleted ... would have explained (the special counsel investigation) hoax."
"If you buy, you know, a box of cereal, if you do anything, you have a voter ID. … The only thing you don’t is if you’re a voter of the United States."
"Democrats let him (cop killer Luis Bracamontes) into our country," and "Democrats let him stay."
Says a recent opioid bill that reached his desk had "very little Democrat support."
Saudi Arabia has ordered $450 billion, "$110 billion of which is a military order," producing "over a million jobs."
Says Democrats "want to give (undocumented immigrants) cars."
"Some of the Democrats have been talking about ending (coverage for) pre-existing conditions."
Sen. Kamala Harris is "supporting the animals of MS-13."
Says Wisconsin "hadn’t been won by a Republican since Dwight D. Eisenhower, in 1952. And I won Wisconsin. … Ronald Reagan, remember, Wisconsin was the state that Ronald Reagan did not win."

Mexico will pay for the wall
China pays tariffs
There has never been a president who passed more legislation
I came up with the expression Priming the Pump
Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest — and you all know it!,
I know words, I have the best words, Look, if I were a liberal Democrat, people would say I’m the super genius of all time. The super genius of all time,
We have a lot of smart people. I tell you what. One thing we’ve learned. We have, by far, the highest IQ of any cabinet ever,
In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,
I would use the greatest minds. I know the best negotiators. I’m in New York — I know the good ones, the bad ones. I always say: ‘I know the ones people think are good.’ I know people you’ve never heard of that are better than all of them.”
“I’m the most militaristic person.
“Nobody in the history of this country has known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump.”
With the exception of the late, great Abraham Lincoln, I can be more presidential than any president that’s ever held this office.
Throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart. Not smart, but genius.
“Just — and so — so I was successful, successful, successful. I was always the best athlete, people don’t know that. But I was successful at everything I ever did…”
I love the First Amendment. Nobody loves it better than me. Nobody. I mean, who uses it more than I do?
“I just realized the other day, they told me… when we won the state of Wisconsin, it hadn’t been won by a Republican since Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1952. Did you know that?”
“Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart.” Trump went on to assert that winning an election everyone was certain he’d lose proved: “I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius….and a very stable genius at that!”


The Daily Show is more honest than The Trump Tweets

[Sea Dangles]

These will go down in history as 8 happy, hysterical years!
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[Got Stripers]

With Donald at the helm and Ivanka and Jared handling foreign policy how can we loose🤮
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

With Donald at the helm and Ivanka and Jared handling foreign policy how can we loose🤮
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so why aren’t we losing, h
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

With Donald at the helm and Ivanka and Jared handling foreign policy how can we loose🤮
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so why aren’t we losing, then? Sure not everything is perfect, far from it. but you claimed several times that our standing in the world has diminished, i kept asking for proof, and i kept failing to see any.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

so why aren’t we losing, then? Sure not everything is perfect, far from it. but you claimed several times that our standing in the world has diminished, i kept asking for proof, and i kept failing to see any.
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they aren't having a conversation they are just yelling at the sky...it's pretty funny and a little sad

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

they aren't having a conversation they are just yelling at the sky...it's pretty funny and a little sad

that is literally what they’re doing. I remember hating everything about bill clinton, he made
my skin crawl. but gradually, i had to admit that as repulsive as i found him personally, that he was making things better.

These people cannot begin to do that. When the congressional black caucus all sits down during the state of the union, while the republicans celebrate low black unemployment, you know that you’ve officially entered the twilight zone.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

they aren't having a conversation they are just yelling at the sky...it's pretty funny and a little sad

Not as funny as all those pictures you use to put up about Obama.

You still have those?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Not as funny as all those pictures you use to put up about Obama.

You still have those?

"a picture is worth a thousand words"...it would be great if Pete would start using pictures

[Got Stripers]

Go read some of Pew Research Center’s world wide surveys on how 25+ countries view us and report back on how well we are doing. I don’t need to prove anything it’s all pretty evident.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Go read some of Pew Research Center’s world wide surveys on how 25+ countries view us and report back on how well we are doing. I don’t need to prove anything it’s all pretty evident.
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No, it's not evident. I have no doubt that most people like Trump less than they liked Obama. But what harm does that cause? Have we been invaded? Did we get excluded from the Olympics? Have we been kicked out of the UN? Does no one want to buy our bonds? Does no one want to buy our goods? Do former allies refuse to return our phone calls now? Are we getting any less help from anyone, to do the things we have to do?

How are you or I worse off on the global stage?

More NATO countries are kicking in a lot more money for defense, reducing our bill.

Mexico is finally sending troops to its southern border.

If he cements a trade deal with China, you'll really have no leg to stand on.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Many people say Donald Trump has lied more than 10,000 times. I mean a lot of people have told me that.

"A lot of people" is not verification. A "lot of people" are wrong about a lot of things. A "lot of people" don't know what they are talking about. "A lot of people" is the type of thing that Trump might say as proof of one of his supposed lies.

I read your list of, 36 I think, Trump "lies." As I suspected, most, probably all, were not actually or necessarily lies. Many may simply be wrong, error, ignorance. Several are probably hyperbole, exaggeration, conjecture. A couple may not actually be provable one way or the other. Some are dependent on what he meant by loosely delivered language such as in his "China pays tariffs." Some may actually be true as in his averring that Reagan didn't win Wisconsin--he said, in a fuller quote that he had "recently learned" that Reagan didn't win Wisconsin in his second term. He may have truly "learned" something that wasn't true.

I suspect that if Trump were to take a lie detector test on each "lie," he would probably pass the test as being truthful on all counts.


The Daily Show is more honest than The Trump Tweets

I wouldn't say "more honest." Perhaps it is just as wrong but is also equal in believing it is right.

I would say that you are not that different from Trump in these regards. You certainly are as sarcastic as he is, I would say even more so. From the tenor of your posts, it seems to me that you are more rude and offensive than he is. And you certainly are prone to the same kind of "lying" that you accuse Trump of--as I have been pointing out.

Maybe that gives you some kind of authority to point fingers and accuse.

[Pete F.]

“I suspect that if Trump were to take a lie detector test on each "lie," he would probably pass the test as being truthful on all counts.”
I believe it was Barbra Rez that said something very similar to that.
Pretty scary to have a pathological liar as President.
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[Got Stripers]

They aren't lies, Detbuch hit it on the head, it's due to total ignorance, he's just to damn dumb to know better.

[scottw]

you two are confusing each other

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by scottw

you two are confusing each other

They're usually in lockstep. One of them must have made a mistake. like Trump sometimes does. Wonder how many thousands of lies were told by Hillary or Bill or Biden, if someone cared to research and use the same standard of what a lie is which is applied to Trump.

By that standard, every campaign speech, every metaphorical poem, just about any political statement by a Progressive, would be full of lies. Thousands and thousands, actually millions if not billions of "lies" told by politicians in our history.

[Pete F.]

A little research though not what some want.
I would assume some Trump supporter is making a comparable list of other politicians lies, it would be interesting to see.


By BELLA DEPAULO
| SPECIAL TO THE WASHINGTON POST |
DEC 08, 2017 | 2:35 PM

I study liars. I've never seen one like Donald Trump.

I spent the first two decades of my career as a social scientist studying liars and their lies. I thought I had developed a sense of what to expect from them. Then along came President Donald Trump. His lies are both more frequent and more malicious than ordinary people's.

In research beginning in the mid-1990s, when I was a professor at the University of Virginia, my colleagues and I asked 77 college students and 70 people from the nearby community to keep diaries of all the lies they told every day for a week. They handed them in to us with no names attached. We calculated participants' rates of lying and categorized each lie as either self-serving (told to advantage the liar or protect the liar from embarrassment, blame or other undesired outcomes) or kind (told to advantage, flatter or protect someone else).

At The Washington Post, the Fact Checker feature has been tracking every false and misleading claim and flip-flop made by Trump this year. The inclusion of misleading statements and flip-flops is consistent with the definition of lying my colleagues and I gave to our participants: "A lie occurs any time you intentionally try to mislead someone." In the case of Trump's claims, though, it is possible to ascertain only whether they were false or misleading, and not what the president's intentions were.

I categorized the most recent 400 lies that The Post had documented through mid-November in the same way my colleagues and I had categorized the lies of the participants in our study.

The college students in our research told an average of two lies a day, and the community members told one. (A more recent study of the lies 1,000 U. S. adults told in the previous 24 hours found that people told an average of 1.65 lies per day; the authors noted that 60 percent of the participants said they told no lies at all, while the top 5 percent of liars told nearly half of all the falsehoods in the study.) The most prolific liar among the students told an average of 6.6 lies a day. The biggest liar in the community sample told 4.3 lies in an average day.

In Trump's first 298 days in office, however, he made 1,628 false or misleading claims or flip-flops, by The Post's tally. That's about six per day, far higher than the average rate in our studies. And of course, reporters have access to only a subset of Trump's false statements — the ones he makes publicly — so unless he never stretches the truth in private, his actual rate of lying is almost certainly higher.

That rate has been accelerating. Starting in early October, The Post's tracking showed that Trump told a remarkable nine lies a day, outpacing even the biggest liars in our research.

But the flood of deceit isn't the most surprising finding about Trump.

Both the college students and the community members in our study served their own interests with their lies more often than other people's interests. They told lies to try to advantage themselves in the workplace, the marketplace, their personal relationships and just about every other domain of everyday life. For example, a salesperson told a customer that the jeans she was trying on were not too tight, so she could make the sale. The participants also lied to protect themselves psychologically: One college student told a classmate that he wasn't worried about his grades, so the classmate wouldn't think he was stupid.

Less often, the participants lied in kind ways, to help other people get what they wanted, look or feel better, or to spare them from embarrassment or blame. For example, a son told his mother he didn't mind taking her shopping, and a woman took sides with a friend who was divorcing, even though she thought her friend was at fault, too.

About half the lies the participants told were self-serving (46 percent for the college students, 57 percent for the community members), compared with about a quarter that were kind (26 percent for the students, 24 percent for the community members). Other lies did not fit either category; they included, for instance, lies told to entertain or to keep conversations running smoothly.

One category of lies was so small that when we reported the results, we just tucked them into a footnote. Those were cruel lies, told to hurt or disparage others. For example, one person told a co-worker that the boss wanted to see him when he really didn't, "so he'd look like a fool." Just 0.8 percent of the lies told by the college students and 2.4 percent of the lies told by the community members were mean-spirited.

My colleagues and I found it easy to code each of our participants' lies into just one category. This was not the case for Trump. Close to a quarter of his false statements (24 percent) served several purposes simultaneously.

Nearly two-thirds of Trump's lies (65 percent) were self-serving. Examples included: "They're big tax cuts — the biggest cuts in the history of our country, actually" and, about the people who came to see him on a presidential visit to Vietnam last month: "They were really lined up in the streets by the tens of thousands."

Slightly less than 10 percent of Trump's lies were kind ones, told to advantage, flatter or protect someone else. An example was his statement on Twitter that "it is a 'miracle' how fast the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police were able to find the demented shooter and stop him from even more killing!" In the broadest sense, it is possible to interpret every lie as ultimately self-serving, but I tried to stick to how statements appeared on the surface.

Trump told 6.6 times as many self-serving lies as kind ones. That's a much higher ratio than we found for our study participants, who told about double the number of self-centered lies compared with kind ones.

The most stunning way Trump's lies differed from our participants', though, was in their cruelty. An astonishing 50 percent of Trump's lies were hurtful or disparaging. For example, he proclaimed that John Brennan, James Clapper and James Comey, all career intelligence or law enforcement officials, were "political hacks." He said that "the Sloppy Michael Moore Show on Broadway was a TOTAL BOMB and was forced to close." He insisted that other "countries, they don't put their finest in the lottery system. They put people probably in many cases that they don't want." And he claimed that "Ralph Northam, who is running for Governor of Virginia, is fighting for the violent MS-13 killer gangs & sanctuary cities."

The Trump lies that could not be coded into just one category were typically told both to belittle others and enhance himself. For example: "Senator Bob Corker 'begged' me to endorse him for reelection in Tennessee. I said 'NO' and he dropped out (said he could not win without my endorsement)."

The sheer frequency of Trump's lies appears to be having an effect, and it may not be the one he is going for. A Politico/Morning Consult poll from late October showed that only 35 percent of voters believed that Trump was honest, while 51 percent said he was not honest. (The others said they didn't know or had no opinion.) Results of a Quinnipiac University poll from November were similar: Thirty-seven percent of voters thought Trump was honest, compared with 58 percent who thought he was not.

For fewer than 40 percent of American voters to see the president as honest is truly remarkable. Most humans, most of the time, believe other people. That's our default setting. Usually, we need a reason to disbelieve.

Research on the detection of deception consistently documents this "truth bias." In the typical study, participants observe people making statements and are asked to indicate, each time, whether they think the person is lying or telling the truth. Measuring whether people believe others should be difficult to do accurately, because simply asking the question disrupts the tendency to assume that other people are telling the truth. It gives participants a reason to wonder. And yet, in our statistical summary of more than 200 studies, Charles F. Bond Jr. and I found that participants still believed other people more often than they should have — 58 percent of the time in studies in which only half of the statements were truthful. People are biased toward believing others, even in studies in which they are told explicitly that only half of the statements they will be judging are truths.

By telling so many lies, and so many that are mean-spirited, Trump is violating some of the most fundamental norms of human social interaction and human decency. Many of the rest of us, in turn, have abandoned a norm of our own — we no longer give Trump the benefit of the doubt that we usually give so readily.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

They aren't lies,

That's correct.

Detbuch hit it on the head, it's due to total ignorance, he's just to damn dumb to know better.

Not total, by any stretch. He is ignorant of some things. Everybody is. Like you.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Pretty scary to have a pathological liar as President.
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And yet another of your Trump-like lies. Maybe you're pathological.

[Sea Dangles]

Clearly the best president of our lifetime
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[Sea Dangles]

🎯
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