Someone forgot to tell Trump

[Pete F.]

Just who is FAKE here, or did someone forget to tell Donald so he has plausible deniability.

The 2020 census will not include a citizenship question, the Justice Department said Tuesday, just days after the Supreme Court blocked a plan by the Commerce Department to add it to the census questionnaire.

Federal attorneys on Tuesday told litigants in the New York challenge to the case that it would not pursue the question. Justice Department spokeswoman Kelly Laco confirmed that the government will move ahead with printing census forms without it.

Last night this was said;
Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said that while he respected the Supreme Court’s decision, he strongly disagreed with it.

“The Census Bureau has started the process of printing the decennial questionnaires without the question,” Ross said in a statement. “My focus, and that of the Bureau and the entire Department is to conduct a complete and accurate census.

Trump tweets this morning:
Donald J. Trump
‏
Verified account

@realDonaldTrump
Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump
More
The News Reports about the Department of Commerce dropping its quest to put the Citizenship Question on the Census is incorrect or, to state it differently, FAKE! We are absolutely moving forward, as we must, because of the importance of the answer to this question.

8:06 AM - 3 Jul 2019

[Sea Dangles]

Someone forgot to tell you that you don’t watch television.🤡
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[Pete F.]

How come since all citizens have Social Security numbers we need to ask this question on the census
If the goal was to have an accurate count of the number of people in the USA just do a plain unadorned census
Would it not be simple math to come up with the number of illegal immigrants
Total census count-social security card holders = undocumented residents
What’s the goal of putting a question on the census?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

How come since all citizens have Social Security numbers we need to ask this question on the census
If the goal was to have an accurate count of the number of people in the USA just do a plain unadorned census
Would it not be simple math to come up with the number of illegal immigrants
Total census count-social security card holders = undocumented residents
What’s the goal of putting a question on the census?
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Since the census is used to allocate House seats, why should non-citizens be used to determine the number of seats? Why should that number be influenced by the number of aliens in a state?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Since the census is used to allocate House seats, why should non-citizens be used to determine the number of seats? Why should that number be influenced by the number of aliens in a state?

Here’s why, or do you think the courts should legislate from the bench because it suits you in this case?
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Since the census is used to allocate House seats, why should non-citizens be used to determine the number of seats? Why should that number be influenced by the number of aliens in a state?

because Article I, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, which states: “Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States... according to their respective Numbers... . The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years”.[a][1] Section 2 of the 14th Amendment states: “Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State...

you cant say your an originalist then add your own inteterpation on sections you disagree the world citizen or aliens doesn't appear

[scottw]

more stupidity...on the 4th of July no less...

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

because Article I, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, which states: “Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States... according to their respective Numbers... . The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years”.[a][1] Section 2 of the 14th Amendment states: “Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State...

you cant say your an originalist then add your own inteterpation on sections you disagree the world citizen or aliens doesn't appear

You didn't finish the rest of section 2 of the 14th Amendment. It included this tidbit. "But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of the State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State."

Clearly, the apportionment was based on citizenship and the right to vote. If you did not have the right to vote, or were denied that right, then your portion of the number counted would be reduced from the total count in order to arrive at a correct number for representation. Since aliens are denied the right to vote as outlined in the Amendment, then the number used for representation shall be reduced by the amount of the aliens counted in the census.

And the 14th Amendment was written before women were granted the right to vote and the voting age was reduce to 18. So the number would include those who now have the right to vote.

And the original language in the Constitution, before the 14th Amendment superseded it, stated the number for representation was a count of the free persons in the state and three fifth's of all other persons. You are not a free person if you do not have the right to vote, and we don't do the three fifths stuff anymore.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

more stupidity...on the 4th of July no less...

So for the last 241 years we've been doing the census all wrong ...but Trumps going to fix it... i see the stupity all right
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So for the last 241 years we've been doing the census all wrong ...but Trumps going to fix it... i see the stupity all right
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See my answer to you just before this post. Changes were made since 1778. And you didn't quote the rest of Amendment 14 section two. Which originalism would require for interpretation.

[scottw]

democrats aren't for open borders

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by detbuch

See my answer to you just before this post. Changes were made since 1778. And you didn't quote the rest of Amendment 14 section two. Which originalism would require for interpretation.

He chooses to ignore the facts as they don’t support his idiocy.
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[Pete F.]

Trump has a new theory of jurisprudence: if you litigate all the way to the Supreme Court but lose the case you still get to do what you want.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Trump has a new theory of jurisprudence: if you litigate all the way to the Supreme Court but lose the case you still get to do what you want.
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Tch, tch, you tell yet another Trump-like sarcastic lie. You just can't help it. It's as much a part of your personal fabric as it is Trump's. It's perfectly OK to be that way . . . just hypocritical when you criticize him about it.

[spence]

Before you even get to the constitutionality of it how about the fact the administration lied about why they wanted the question in the first place?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Before you even get to the constitutionality of it how about the fact the administration lied about why they wanted the question in the first place?

Are you trying to rile up the base?

[Sea Dangles]

He has a new code red.🤡
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

See my answer to you just before this post. Changes were made since 1778. And you didn't quote the rest of Amendment 14 section two. Which originalism would require for interpretation.

Seem this simple questions is a yes or no answer. Have we been doing it wrong for the past 200 plus years. And trumps going to fix it?
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Seem this simple questions is a yes or no answer. Have we been doing it wrong for the past 200 plus years. And trumps going to fix it?
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are you suggesting the census has not changed over the last 200 plus years?

1790

In 1790, assistant marshals listed the name of each head of household, and asked the following questions:

The number of free White males aged:
under 16 years
of 16 years and upward
Number of free White females
Number of other free persons
Number of slaves

For the 1870 census, enumerators recorded demographic information on the following topics, organized by column number:

Number of dwelling house, by order of visitation from enumerator
Number of family, by order of visitation from enumerator
Name
Age
Sex
Color

Enumerators could mark "W" for White, "B" for Black, "M" for Mulatto, "C" for Chinese [a category which included all east Asians], or "I" for American Indian.
Profession, occupation, or trade
Value of real estate
Value of personal estate
Place of birth

State or territory of the United States or foreign country
Was the person's father of foreign birth?
Was the person's mother of foreign birth?
If the person was born within the last year, which month?
If the person was married within the last year, which month?
Did the person attend school within the last year?
Can the person not read?
Can the person not write?
Is the person deaf and dumb, blind, insane, or idiotic?
Is the person a male citizen of the United States of 21 years or upwards?
Is the person a male citizen of the United States of 21 years or upwards whose right to vote is denied or abridged on grounds other than "rebellion or other crime?"



The 1940 census was the first to include a statistical sample. Five percent of people were asked an additional 16 questions. In order to gauge the effect of the Great Depression on the nation's housing stock, a census of occupied dwellings was coupled with the usual demographic questions. Enumerators collected the following information, organized by column number:

Population

Street the person lives on
House number
Number of household in order of visitation
Is the home owned or rented?
Value of the home, if owned, or monthly rental, if rented
Does the person's household live on a farm?
Name
Relationship with the head of household
Sex
Color or race
Age at last birthday
Marital status
Did the person attend school or college at any time in the past year?
What was the highest grade of school that the person completed?
Person's place of birth
If foreign born, is the person a citizen?
In what place did the person live on April 1, 1935?
For persons who, on April 1, 1935 was living in the same house as at present, enumerators were to enter "same house" into column 17; they were to leave the rest of the columns in this section blank. For persons who lived in a different house, enumerators were to fill out the columns with information about their 1935 residence.

City, town, or village
For villages with fewer than 2,600 residents, and all unorganized places, enumerators were to enter "R."
County
State or Territory
Was this house on a farm?
For persons 14 years and older - employment status

Was the person at work for pay or profit in private or nonemergency government work during the week of March 24 - 30?
If not, was he at work on, or assigned to, public emergency work (WPA, NYA, CCC, etc.) during the week of March 24 - 30?
If the person was neither at work or assigned public emergency work: was this person seeking work?
If not seeking work, did he have a job or business?
For persons answering "No" to questions 21, 22, 23, and 24; indicate whether engaged in home housework (H), in school (S), unable to work (U), or Other (Ot)
If the person was at work in private or non emergency government employment: how many hours did he work in the week of March 24 - 30?
If the person was seeking work or assigned to public emergency work: what was the duration, in weeks, of his unemployment?
What is the person's occupation, trade, or profession?
What is the person's industry or business?
What is the person's class of worker?
Number of weeks worked in 1939 (or equivalent of full time weeks)
Amount of money, wages, or salary received (including commissions)
Did this person receive income of more than $50 from sources other than money wages or salary?
Corresponding number on the Farm Schedule of the person's farm
Supplementary Questions
Name
Person's father's birthplace
Person's mother's birthplace
Person's mother or native tongue
Veterans
Is this person a veteran of the United States military forces; or the wife, widow, or under-18-year old child of a veteran?

If so enter "Yes"
If the person is a child of a veteran, is the veteran father dead?
War or military service
Enumerators were to mark "W" for World War I; "S" for the Spanish-American War, the Phillipine insurrection, or Boxer Rebellion; "SW" for both the Spanish-American War and World War I; "R" for peacetime service only; or "Ot" for any other war or expedition
For persons 14 years old and over

Social Security
Does this person have a federal Social Security number?
Were deductions for federal Old-Age Insurance or railroad retirement made from this person's wages in 1939?
If so, were deductions made from all, one-half or more, or less than one-half of the person's wages or salary?
What is this person's usual occupation?
What is this person's usual industry?
What class of worker is this person?
For all women who are or have been married

Has this person been married more than once?
Age at first marriage
Number of children ever born

[Sea Dangles]

🤷🏽#^&♂️
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[Liv2Fish]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Since the census is used to allocate House seats, why should non-citizens be used to determine the number of seats? Why should that number be influenced by the number of aliens in a state?

Bingo!

[scottw]

Poll: Majority say the census should be able to include citizenship question

Sixty-seven percent of voters said the census should be able to ask whether people living in the U.S. are citizens, going against the recent Supreme Court decision on the matter, according to a new Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll.

The poll also found that the inclusion of the question was supported among members of both parties, with 88 percent of Republicans and 52 percent of Democrats supporting its inclusion.

Sixty-three percent of independents said they supported including the question on the census.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court...de-citizenship

[Rmarsh]

It is very strange to me, and just plain stupid, I think, that a census would not include the question...."Are you a citizen of this country"?
Why is that not a legitimate question?
Oh wait ...maybe ...cause trump is a very bad man.....wants to be a dictator.....is a racist and wants to eat immigrant children...

Spend just one day on a construction site, like I have since 73', and you would understand that we have a serious invasion of illegal immigrants going on. It has all but destroyed a once proud profession.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

are you suggesting the census has not changed over the last 200 plus years?

1790

In 1790, assistant marshals listed the name of each head of household, and asked the following questions:

The number of free White males aged:
under 16 years
of 16 years and upward
Number of free White females
Number of other free persons
Number of slaves

For the 1870 census, enumerators recorded demographic information on the following topics, organized by column number:

Number of dwelling house, by order of visitation from enumerator
Number of family, by order of visitation from enumerator
Name
Age
Sex
Color

Enumerators could mark "W" for White, "B" for Black, "M" for Mulatto, "C" for Chinese [a category which included all east Asians], or "I" for American Indian.
Profession, occupation, or trade
Value of real estate
Value of personal estate
Place of birth

State or territory of the United States or foreign country
Was the person's father of foreign birth?
Was the person's mother of foreign birth?
If the person was born within the last year, which month?
If the person was married within the last year, which month?
Did the person attend school within the last year?
Can the person not read?
Can the person not write?
Is the person deaf and dumb, blind, insane, or idiotic?
Is the person a male citizen of the United States of 21 years or upwards?
Is the person a male citizen of the United States of 21 years or upwards whose right to vote is denied or abridged on grounds other than "rebellion or other crime?"



The 1940 census was the first to include a statistical sample. Five percent of people were asked an additional 16 questions. In order to gauge the effect of the Great Depression on the nation's housing stock, a census of occupied dwellings was coupled with the usual demographic questions. Enumerators collected the following information, organized by column number:

Population

Street the person lives on
House number
Number of household in order of visitation
Is the home owned or rented?
Value of the home, if owned, or monthly rental, if rented
Does the person's household live on a farm?
Name
Relationship with the head of household
Sex
Color or race
Age at last birthday
Marital status
Did the person attend school or college at any time in the past year?
What was the highest grade of school that the person completed?
Person's place of birth
If foreign born, is the person a citizen?
In what place did the person live on April 1, 1935?
For persons who, on April 1, 1935 was living in the same house as at present, enumerators were to enter "same house" into column 17; they were to leave the rest of the columns in this section blank. For persons who lived in a different house, enumerators were to fill out the columns with information about their 1935 residence.

City, town, or village
For villages with fewer than 2,600 residents, and all unorganized places, enumerators were to enter "R."
County
State or Territory
Was this house on a farm?
For persons 14 years and older - employment status

Was the person at work for pay or profit in private or nonemergency government work during the week of March 24 - 30?
If not, was he at work on, or assigned to, public emergency work (WPA, NYA, CCC, etc.) during the week of March 24 - 30?
If the person was neither at work or assigned public emergency work: was this person seeking work?
If not seeking work, did he have a job or business?
For persons answering "No" to questions 21, 22, 23, and 24; indicate whether engaged in home housework (H), in school (S), unable to work (U), or Other (Ot)
If the person was at work in private or non emergency government employment: how many hours did he work in the week of March 24 - 30?
If the person was seeking work or assigned to public emergency work: what was the duration, in weeks, of his unemployment?
What is the person's occupation, trade, or profession?
What is the person's industry or business?
What is the person's class of worker?
Number of weeks worked in 1939 (or equivalent of full time weeks)
Amount of money, wages, or salary received (including commissions)
Did this person receive income of more than $50 from sources other than money wages or salary?
Corresponding number on the Farm Schedule of the person's farm
Supplementary Questions
Name
Person's father's birthplace
Person's mother's birthplace
Person's mother or native tongue
Veterans
Is this person a veteran of the United States military forces; or the wife, widow, or under-18-year old child of a veteran?

If so enter "Yes"
If the person is a child of a veteran, is the veteran father dead?
War or military service
Enumerators were to mark "W" for World War I; "S" for the Spanish-American War, the Phillipine insurrection, or Boxer Rebellion; "SW" for both the Spanish-American War and World War I; "R" for peacetime service only; or "Ot" for any other war or expedition
For persons 14 years old and over

Social Security
Does this person have a federal Social Security number?
Were deductions for federal Old-Age Insurance or railroad retirement made from this person's wages in 1939?
If so, were deductions made from all, one-half or more, or less than one-half of the person's wages or salary?
What is this person's usual occupation?
What is this person's usual industry?
What class of worker is this person?
For all women who are or have been married

Has this person been married more than once?
Age at first marriage
Number of children ever born

Again have we been doing it wrong? For 200 years ... its a simple yes or no ... even the why he wants it his supporters cant even explaine ... the why ... and were is the provision if someone states they are a non citizen or say yes the are or leave it blank ... who is going to determine who or who not to count...... but again the right still believe illigals vote by the 10 of thousands .. so now they think they immigrants impact . Seats in Congress or federal moneys .to states again with out evidence .. but they have no issues with the lie for why it was requested .. or Trumps willingness to use executive order even after the supreme court rulling .. by anymeans necessary crowd
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

It is very strange to me, and just plain stupid, I think, that a census would not include the question...."Are you a citizen of this country"?
Why is that not a legitimate question?
Oh wait ...maybe ...cause trump is a very bad man.....wants to be a dictator.....is a racist and wants to eat immigrant children...

Spend just one day on a construction site, like I have since 73', and you would understand that we have a serious invasion of illegal immigrants going on. It has all but destroyed a once proud profession.

Did i bother you in the past census that citizenship question wasnt asked
Did the construction site not change since 72 did it stay irish or italian or Portuguese? Masons carpterner roofer have been taken over by immigrants for many reasons. But thats been the industry for generations .. now its face is not of European immigrants ..the face is from south America.. and that scares some
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Again have we been doing it wrong? For 200 years ... its a simple yes or no ...

It has been done differently many times in the past 200 years. If changing how the census is done means it was done wrong before, then it would be a simple yes to your question.
If making changes is not wrong, then a simple no to your question would suffice.

even the why he wants it his supporters cant even explaine ... the why ...

It's been explained. But why should it have to be explained. You required a simple yes or no.

and were is the provision if someone states they are a non citizen or say yes the are or leave it blank ... who is going to determine who or who not to count...... but again the right still believe illigals vote by the 10 of thousands .. so now they think they immigrants impact . Seats in Congress or federal moneys .to states again with out evidence .. but they have no issues with the lie for why it was requested .. or Trumps willingness to use executive order even after the supreme court rulling .. by anymeans necessary crowd
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This remaining part of your post is simple scatterbrain fallout.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Did i bother you in the past census that citizenship question wasnt asked
Did the construction site not change since 72 did it stay irish or italian or Portuguese? Masons carpterner roofer have been taken over by immigrants for many reasons. But thats been the industry for generations .. now its face is not of European immigrants ..the face is from south America.. and that scares some
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Wolf cry goes out

Say the wrong thing and you are his new racist
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Wolf cry goes out

Say the wrong thing and you are his new racist
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Seems Historical contex is a challange for some ... the world chages. .. i am sure with each wave of new immigrants the pervious immigrants felt pushed out .... to a degree why should today be any diffrent ? Includindg the current incendiary rhetoric ... funny its always the white guys saying race has nothing to do.with it ... but for many its a reason .... and for the otherside the same response..... there is no blance.. in the far right or the far lefts response to this issue the middle is drowned out
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[Sea Dangles]

I appreciate you acknowledging my point.
Too bad,that for some color matters.
Again, you feel compelled to make this a right or left type of issue when it is simply a human being issue. With this rhetoric do not expect progress.
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I appreciate you acknowledging my point.
Too bad,that for some color matters.
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Thank god for anal bleaching
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