House to vote on impeachment

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What benefit did he receive?
Did he receive assistance from a foreign government in our elections
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his son may have benefitted enormously.

and if ukraine investigates biden, wed all benefit. some people
may not feel this way when politics is concerned, but there's value in learning truth.

think of it this way, if the ukrainians investigated biden and found that the biden’s did nothing wrong, then what does trump gain? zilch. it makes trump look stupid.

make that wrong.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What benefit did he receive?
Did he receive assistance from a foreign government in our elections
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

and biden did benefit, he was able to brag in front of cameras, very trump-like actually, about how he flexed his muscles and got a guy fired. it gave biden something to put on his resume
and brag about, which he did.

biden benefitted in political capital, just as trump would have if biden was investigated and found to be corrupt.

they all do things that benefit themselves politically. it’s only problematic when trump does it.

you can’t win this, not based on what we now know.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

the "smoking gun" tape ensuring Nixon's impeachment was an order by him to have the CIA impede the FBI investigation into Watergate burglaries. The CIA didn't follow through; the FBI investigation continued. RN's request alone was (rightly) corrupt enough.
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This is a switch from criminal prosecution to which your "prosecutor's explanation" referred, to impeachment. Criminal standards and impeachment "standards" (if there are any), as they are currently practiced, are not the same.

And Trump wasn't asking Ukraine to impede an investigation, but to conduct one.

[Pete F.]

CHRIS WALLACE: Aid was released 2 days after the IG informed the House about the whistleblower. It wasn't released until the story was out

KELLYANNE CONWAY: You're trying to make that causation. It may be coincidence

CW: You really think that's a coincidence?

KC: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and biden did benefit, he was able to brag in front of cameras, very trump-like actually, about how he flexed his muscles and got a guy fired. it gave biden something to put on his resume
and brag about, which he did.

biden benefitted in political capital, just as trump would have if biden was investigated and found to be corrupt.

they all do things that benefit themselves politically. it’s only problematic when trump does it.

you can’t win this, not based on what we now know.
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Biden did it in public all in the open with support from Congress and allies
Trump did it in private with a backchannel investigation and made a phone call that even Bolton was wound about and numerous people said was wrong and refused to tell Congress why the aid was being held
You don’t have a prayer
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Biden did it in public all in the open with support from Congress and allies
Trump did it in private with a backchannel investigation and made a phone call that even Bolton was wound about and numerous people said was wrong and refused to tell Congress why the aid was being held
You don’t have a prayer
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You're getting more and more desperate to differentiate. Here's what you are currently saying. You're saying it's OK to withhold aid to get a foreign power to do something that benefits you, as long as you do it in the open. But doing it behind closed doors, is an impeachable offense. Do I have that right? You're the first person I've heard say that. Everyone in DC is saying that the quid pro quo itself was impeachable, never mind that Biden obviously did it too.

I don't need to have a prayer, I'm not that married to either side. No matter what happens, I'm not going to have a breakdown.

But let's clarify, hen you say I don't have a prayer, what do you mean - that he's going to get removed from office?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You're getting more and more desperate to differentiate. Here's what you are currently saying. You're saying it's OK to withhold aid to get a foreign power to do something that benefits you, as long as you do it in the open. But doing it behind closed doors, is an impeachable offense. Do I have that right? You're the first person I've heard say that. Everyone in DC is saying that the quid pro quo itself was impeachable, never mind that Biden obviously did it too.

I don't need to have a prayer, I'm not that married to either side. No matter what happens, I'm not going to have a breakdown.

But let's clarify, hen you say I don't have a prayer, what do you mean - that he's going to get removed from office?

If you think those two are equal, he really could shoot someone on 5th Avenue. More and more people will tell the truth or “flip” as Trump calls it.
If you think he is thought of as a desirable President by the majority of the Republican Senators you don’t understand politicians. They all know there’s more there there.
He will be Impeached and convicted in the Senate.
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[Sea Dangles]

🍔🙅🏿#^&♂️
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[Pete F.]

🍑🤡
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

CHRIS WALLACE: Aid was released 2 days after the IG informed the House about the whistleblower. It wasn't released until the story was out

KELLYANNE CONWAY: You're trying to make that causation. It may be coincidence

CW: You really think that's a coincidence?

KC: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Consciousness of guilty.

Sleaziest admin. in our lifetime.

[wdmso]

any president inviting a foreign government to interfere in an election.

Not sure what part of this Trump supporters dont accept

Its like being on Tinder and telling your. Wife whats the problem we only talked.. which may be100% accurate.. but OMG what a pathetic defense..

Just like they eventually got the money.. whats the big deal. Yet ignoring why is was with held to start with.. and why congress wasnt aware of it being with held.
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[PaulS]

And Trump is saying that the WB id should be revealed - telling people to break the law.

Cesspool.

[scottw]

better get you prescriptions filled and buckle in for 4 more years...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

better get you prescriptions filled and buckle in for 4 more years...

I did take an aleve yesterday for a stiff neck after a long bike ride. 1st pill I think I've taken in about 10 years other than vitamins. Gonna start w/centrum silver soon

Your right in that if the economy holds up, Trump may win another term.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If you think those two are equal, he really could shoot someone on 5th Avenue. More and more people will tell the truth or “flip” as Trump calls it.
If you think he is thought of as a desirable President by the majority of the Republican Senators you don’t understand politicians. They all know there’s more there there.
He will be Impeached and convicted in the Senate.
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you dodged my question. one does that when they know they’ve backed themselves into a corner.

you stated that the difference was that biden did it ( “it” being, threatening to withhold aid to get a foreign power to do something which would benefit him politically, in the open), while trump
did it privately. your words, not mine.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you dodged my question. one does that when they know they’ve backed themselves into a corner.

you stated that the difference was that biden did it ( “it” being, threatening to withhold aid to get a foreign power to do something which would benefit him politically, in the open), while trump
did it privately. your words, not mine.
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I didn't dodge your question, you just cannot accept that the Con man did anything wrong.

The difference is Trump committed Extortion, Bribery and Abuse of Power by using the money appropriated by Congress to try and get dirt on his opponent and has demonstrated consciousness of guilt by engaging in a coverup and other examples of obstruction.

Biden did his job.

Was there an attempted coverup?
Why was the file hidden in a secret server?
Why was Vindman told not to discuss the call?
Why did the OGC feel it necessary to hide the conversation?
Why was the aid released 2 days after the whistleblower report was made and very shortly after the IG went to the OGC with the report?

Then name one piece of “false information” in the whistleblower complaint. One.

Now Trump's retreat is falling back from Biden did it also, to alternative facts.

Trump's new demand that Rs falsify congressional testimony shows how his propaganda works:

1) Trump/Rs claim that witnesses testified in private collapsed

2) When transcripts show that's BS, media has moved on

3) Trump/Rs are directed to substitute a set of lies, there's a tweet for that

Now his latest idea is to threaten to shut down the Government.
Threatening that unless Congress stops impeaching you is exactly the kind of behavior one should be impeached for.

The facade and walls of the malignant narcissist deranged conman are crumbling, piece by piece.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I didn't dodge your question, you just cannot accept that the Con man did anything wrong.

The difference is Trump committed Extortion, Bribery and Abuse of Power by using the money appropriated by Congress to try and get dirt on his opponent and has demonstrated consciousness of guilt by engaging in a coverup and other examples of obstruction.

Biden did his job.

Was there an attempted coverup?
Why was the file hidden in a secret server?
Why was Vindman told not to discuss the call?
Why did the OGC feel it necessary to hide the conversation?
Why was the aid released 2 days after the whistleblower report was made and very shortly after the IG went to the OGC with the report?

Then name one piece of “false information” in the whistleblower complaint. One.

Now Trump's retreat is falling back from Biden did it also, to alternative facts.

Trump's new demand that Rs falsify congressional testimony shows how his propaganda works:

1) Trump/Rs claim that witnesses testified in private collapsed

2) When transcripts show that's BS, media has moved on

3) Trump/Rs are directed to substitute a set of lies, there's a tweet for that

Now his latest idea is to threaten to shut down the Government.
Threatening that unless Congress stops impeaching you is exactly the kind of behavior one should be impeached for.

The facade and walls of the malignant narcissist deranged conman are crumbling, piece by piece.

You've compiled a very impressive list of talking points. You're very good at that.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I didn't dodge your question, you just cannot accept that the Con man did anything wrong.

The difference is Trump committed Extortion, Bribery and Abuse of Power by using the money appropriated by Congress to try and get dirt on his opponent and has demonstrated consciousness of guilt by engaging in a coverup and other examples of obstruction.

Biden did his job.

Was there an attempted coverup?
Why was the file hidden in a secret server?
Why was Vindman told not to discuss the call?
Why did the OGC feel it necessary to hide the conversation?
Why was the aid released 2 days after the whistleblower report was made and very shortly after the IG went to the OGC with the report?

Then name one piece of “false information” in the whistleblower complaint. One.

Now Trump's retreat is falling back from Biden did it also, to alternative facts.

Trump's new demand that Rs falsify congressional testimony shows how his propaganda works:

1) Trump/Rs claim that witnesses testified in private collapsed

2) When transcripts show that's BS, media has moved on

3) Trump/Rs are directed to substitute a set of lies, there's a tweet for that

Now his latest idea is to threaten to shut down the Government.
Threatening that unless Congress stops impeaching you is exactly the kind of behavior one should be impeached for.

The facade and walls of the malignant narcissist deranged conman are crumbling, piece by piece.

first you dodged, now you’re
moving the goalposts. last time you said trump was only wrong because he committed his extortion behind closed doors. now you’re changing you tune.

trump and biden each extorted a foreign power to get said power to do something that would help them
politically.

you can’t make that wrong. you cannot.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

any president inviting a foreign government to interfere in an election.

Interesting. Investigating corruption interferes with an election. I suppose that depends on your personal definition of "interferes."

Not sure what part of this Trump supporters dont accept

I don't "support" Trump, but I do support the defeat of Progressivism, Socialism, and Communism. In that respect, I support the defeat of the Democrats. And I probably don't accept your definition of "interfere." But not sure what you mean by that word.

Its like being on Tinder and telling your. Wife whats the problem we only talked.. which may be100% accurate.. but OMG what a pathetic defense..

Again, interesting. You're a very interesting person with very interesting ideas. The President of the U.S. talking to the President of Ukraine and making a legal request is like being on Tinder.

And didn't know that Trump "defended" his conversation by saying that they only talked.

Just like they eventually got the money.. whats the big deal. Yet ignoring why is was with held to start with.. and why congress wasnt aware of it being with held.

Exactly. They got the money. So Zelensky doesn't have to conduct the investigation. He's got the money. And Trump made it known why the money was withheld. And he spoke to at least one Congressman about it.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

first you dodged, now you’re
moving the goalposts. last time you said trump was only wrong because he committed his extortion behind closed doors. now you’re changing you tune.

trump and biden each extorted a foreign power to get said power to do something that would help them
politically.

you can’t make that wrong. you cannot.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

My tune has never changed, it's just that Trump is so corrupt that it is hard to keep track of all his egregious actions.

What benefit did Trump's employers (the people) receive for his pursuit of the investigation of Biden?
If this was of benefit to the citizens of the United States Trump's attempt to do the following things would be explained in what manner to paraphrase you as "right"? you cannot.

Why was there an attempted coverup?
Why was the file hidden in a secret server?
Why was Vindman told not to discuss the call?
Why did the OGC feel it necessary to hide the conversation?
Why was the aid released 2 days after the whistleblower report was made and very shortly after the IG went to the OGC with the report?
Show one instance where the Trump administration was concerned about corruption that didn't involve a political opponent.

If there are correct, or noble reasons to do this it is easily explained and sunlight would show that there was no issue, however the WH is stonewalling the investigation in every way possible.

[Pete F.]

If the White House were confident that the soon-to-be-released impeachment inquiry transcripts would exonerate Trump, he wouldn't be panicking.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If the White House were confident that the soon-to-be-released impeachment inquiry transcripts would exonerate Trump, he wouldn't be panicking.

So, going in, the assumption is that Trump is guilty. No doubt that a well choreographed inquiry specifically composed to produce a picture of that assumption is soon-to-be-released.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

My tune has never changed, it's just that Trump is so corrupt that it is hard to keep track of all his egregious actions.

What benefit did Trump's employers (the people) receive for his pursuit of the investigation of Biden?
If this was of benefit to the citizens of the United States Trump's attempt to do the following things would be explained in what manner to paraphrase you as "right"? you cannot.

Why was there an attempted coverup?
Why was the file hidden in a secret server?
Why was Vindman told not to discuss the call?
Why did the OGC feel it necessary to hide the conversation?
Why was the aid released 2 days after the whistleblower report was made and very shortly after the IG went to the OGC with the report?
Show one instance where the Trump administration was concerned about corruption that didn't involve a political opponent.

If there are correct, or noble reasons to do this it is easily explained and sunlight would show that there was no issue, however the WH is stonewalling the investigation in every way possible.

the benefit we’d receive from investigating the biden’s, is the learning the truth about what they did there. if trump requested an investigation, and it turned out Biden didn’t do
anything, trump would look stupid. he had nothing to gain from a phony investigation that didn’t conclude wrongdoing.

yes you’re changing your tune.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

the benefit we’d receive from investigating the biden’s, is the learning the truth about what they did there. if trump requested an investigation, and it turned out Biden didn’t do
anything, trump would look stupid. he had nothing to gain from a phony investigation that didn’t conclude wrongdoing.

yes you’re changing your tune.
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I never said Trump wasn't stupid, stupidity is not a valid defense. He may get away with incompetence as a defense.

We as the government of the people, by the people, for the people investigate things all the time. We have laws, rules, regulations and people to do that and it is done every day. The FBI and CIA have no equal in the world.

Instead of learning how to manage the bureaucracy, Trump prefers to make an end-run around them. That’s what got him into trouble in Ukraine, where Rudy Giuliani was running a parallel foreign policy outside the normal channels in order to promote a conspiracy theory that the professionals in the bureaucracy refused to embrace.

Here's the link for the first two transcripts (not Memos) of witness testimony.

https://intelligence.house.gov/news/...DocumentID=757

It will all play out, though you won't read it just like the Mueller Report.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So, going in, the assumption is that Trump is guilty. No doubt that a well choreographed inquiry specifically composed to produce a picture of that assumption is soon-to-be-released.

The first transcripts are out.

https://intelligence.house.gov/news/...DocumentID=757

Perhaps you can read them while listening to this

[Sea Dangles]

So here is a shocker,PeteF thinks he has uncovered yet even more evidence of wrongdoing by Trump. Thank you for sharing this nothing burger. I am confident it will leave you confused as usual.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The first transcripts are out.

https://intelligence.house.gov/news/...DocumentID=757

The full transcripts were not shown. Only selected excerpts. Selected by whom? Were any of the selected questions asked by Republicans?

I tried to pour through the Yovanovitch selections which were opinions of her perceptions. I couldn't submit myself to try the selected excerpts of McKinley. Like I said, well choreographed.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Exactly. They got the money. So Zelensky doesn't have to conduct the investigation. He's got the money. And Trump made it known why the money was withheld. And he spoke to at least one Congressman about it.

Wow nice kool aid moustache
Completion of the quid pro quo is irrelevant.

Trump's attorneys claim that as president, he is immune from criminal investigation

Got a comment on that postition ?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Wow nice kool aid moustache
Completion of the quid pro quo is irrelevant.

Trump's attorneys claim that as president, he is immune from criminal investigation

Got a comment on that postition ?
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There is no point in making a comment to you. I have learned that you are immune from my comments.

[Pete F.]

Keep in mind
Trump is a genius but you can't see his grades
Trump is healthy but you can't see his medical report
Trump is rich but you can't see his tax returns
Trump is innocent but you can't see the unedited transcript
Trump is honest but you can't question the White House lawyers
Good luck with that
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