What part of Pro-Life is letting people die to help the Dow

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Time to cheer for the USA.
These numbers are something to be optimistic about.
Lives are being saved with our preparedness.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Chris,
I have always enjoyed our banter and especially spent times fishing together. However, I have to acknowledge here, to you and the group, that your perspective is through glasses of a different color than >90% of America. I don't see the numbers that are giving you a positive vibe. At least in relation to the needed medical supplies being touted by those on the front lines; the nurses and doctors. With a niece getting her MD within days and headed to those front lines, on top of having an 85 yo living under my roof, I just don't share any of your points at this moment.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Chris,
I have always enjoyed our banter and especially spent times fishing together. However, I have to acknowledge here, to you and the group, that your perspective is through glasses of a different color than >90% of America. I don't see the numbers that are giving you a positive vibe. At least in relation to the needed medical supplies being touted by those on the front lines; the nurses and doctors. With a niece getting her MD within days and headed to those front lines, on top of having an 85 yo living under my roof, I just don't share any of your points at this moment.

I have no problem with you disagreeing Ross. If you look at our mortality numbers vs the majority of other nations then perhaps you would share my satisfaction. I see countries that are much worse off and hope we can stay where we are with the death rates. Civilized nations across the globe are all in the same battle you know. Do all of their citizens lay their blame at the feet of elected officials? That is not the narrative I hear in most cases. Don’t despair, it is always darkest before the light. We are all in this together so we can either lash out like cornered animals or try to remain positive and realistically hopeful.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

we got caught unprepared in terms of certain supplies. Naturally the previous administration deserves none of the blame, and the current administration deserves 100% of the blame.

But there are reasons t be optimistic. i trust our healthcare providers, i trust our system to produce
more safety equipment and better ideas, than any other country. I am
lucky that i can say that regardless of who is president. Many here cant bring themselves to say anything positive about Trump, doesn’t matter what he does.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

we got caught unprepared in terms of certain supplies. Naturally the previous administration deserves none of the blame, and the current administration deserves 100% of the blame.

I know you're being sarcastic--that, indeed, a good deal of the non preparedness in respirators "along with millions of other masks, gowns and gloves." actually is the fault of the previous administration as said in this Washington post article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...cd9_story.html

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I know you're being sarcastic--that, indeed, a good deal of the non preparedness in respirators "along with millions of other masks, gowns and gloves." actually is the fault of the previous administration as said in this Washington post article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...cd9_story.html

correct.

now, with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been nice if trump thought to rebuild those stockpiles. had he done so back then, he would have been accused of trying to start a panic.

orangemanbad.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[nightfighter]

The fault for not being prepared lies with HHS, HIS, and CDC in my opinion. They should only be able to pass the buck onto an administration or congress when they can definitively show where budget cuts and/or lack of bill passage directly led to this material shortfall. This is their domain!

I just don't see PPE inventory being in the top ten items for any administration in my lifetime. It is up to those departments to bring it up to cabinet level discussion and resolution. If it is budgetary, then we go down the line on who voted it down. (no doubt you will have to search within some hundreds of pages of the bill it was buried in)

How much f uckery is in the $2.3 trillion 900 page bill they just passed? Here is something I saw, but cannot prove, nor disprove:

$60 million Space
$25 million House salaries
$25 million Capitol repairs
$25 million Kennedy Center renovations

If these are truly in that bill, the whole lot of Congress should be impeached. How dare they at a time like this?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

correct.

now, with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been nice if trump thought to rebuild those stockpiles. had he done so back then, he would have been accused of trying to start a panic.

orangemanbad.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You buy boat and and it sinks its funny your trying to blame the previous owner 3.5 years later... funny how conservatives expect personal responsibility from everyone else , except Republicans or Trump....

Trump creates his own issue someday you'll see it

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You buy boat and and it sinks its funny your trying to blame the previous owner 3.5 years later... funny how conservatives expect personal responsibility from everyone else , except Republicans or Trump....

Trump creates his own issue someday you'll see it

He went through that equipment during the HiN1 outbreak, which I believe was in 2009. Gave him a lot of years.

I don't blame either one of them. No one was worried about a shortage, this outbreak caught the world by surprise.

To repeat, I don't blame either one. I think it's laughable to blame one and not the other. We are all shocked that you blame Trump and not Obama. Just shocked, Stunned, we all have to lie down.

[Jim in CT]

GS, trumps bold early move isn’t the point at all. the point was the liberal reaction to it. liberals went nuts, saying he over reacted. now the same people are saying he didn’t do enough.

Sorry, can’t have it both ways.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

GS, trumps bold early move isn’t the point at all. the point was the liberal reaction to it. liberals went nuts, saying he over reacted. now the same people are saying he didn’t do enough.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

they are a little slow...you have to spell things out s-l-o-w-l-y for them...they like to have it both ways

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Sorry, can’t have it both ways.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You and others clearly want both ways ... you blame others while praising Trump

Actions but willfully ignore his inactions

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You and others clearly want both ways ... you blame others while praising Trump

Actions but willfully ignore his inactions

I blame Trump when he deserves blame. I hate the way he attacks reporters at the briefings (though one deserved it in my opinion). Not every time I see him or hear him.

Again, let's see who thinks for themselves, and who blindly follows one side, shall we?

I agree with liberals on some big social issues - gay marriage, death penalty, gun control, availability of health insurance.. Can you tell us here and now, what are the biggest issues on which you disagree with liberals?

I also have said a thousand times, that Trump is morally bankrupt. Can you admit that there is just as much evidence that Biden abuses women, as there is that Kavanaugh abused women? Can you concede that?

Stop dodging and answer a question.

You're saying that anytime someone credits Trump and blames someone else, they are a hypocrite? It's never possible that Trump deserves credit and someone else deserves blame? In your opinion, Trump must always be wrong.

You are proving my point.

[Got Stripers]

You two knuckleheads are both wrong, one move followed by no decisions, pour decisions and terrible messaging is going to harm more, kill more and take far longer to recover from, but focus on spelling to show us all your priorities are on what’s really important in these times, pretty sad actually.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You two knuckleheads are both wrong, one move followed by no decisions, pour decisions and terrible messaging is going to harm more, kill more and take far longer to recover from, but focus on spelling to show us all your priorities are on what’s really important in these times, pretty sad actually.

your whining is really moving mountains

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

your whining is really moving mountains

I love pointing out how irrelevant you are, gee wiz I hoped a spelled that right or wright.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I love pointing out how irrelevant you are, gee wiz I hoped a spelled that right or wright.

don't worry ...you are fabulous

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by scottw

your whining is really moving mountains

His priorities are moving mountains. He chooses to whine constantly rather than ridicule whiners.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You two knuckleheads are both wrong, one move followed by no decisions, pour decisions and terrible messaging is going to harm more, kill more and take far longer to recover from, but focus on spelling to show us all your priorities are on what’s really important in these times, pretty sad actually.

not one syllable, not one, about the democrats and the media which said his one move was a racist over reaction. none of that matters to you.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

not one syllable, not one, about the democrats and the media which said his one move was a racist over reaction. none of that matters to you.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You do know why, because they aren’t in control of this administration and the ones failing miserably and I don’t fu*king care. Everyone’s life is turned upside down, hospitals running out of supplies, death tolls will approach world war totals and your stuck on one Fuc*king thing, get your fu*cking head out of your ar*ss.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You do know why, because they aren’t in control of this administration and the ones failing miserably and I don’t fu*king care. Everyone’s life is turned upside down, hospitals running out of supplies, death tolls will approach world war totals and your stuck on one Fuc*king thing, get your fu*cking head out of your ar*ss.

Temper. Temper. Try to take a deep breath and remember where you are
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

and I don’t fu*king care. Everyone’s life is turned upside down, hospitals running out of supplies, death tolls will approach world war totals and your stuck on one Fuc*king thing, get your fu*cking head out of your ar*ss.

I'm not stuck on anything. But when TDS sufferers such as yourself shriek that he's not doing anything, obviously it's pertinent to point out that when he took a bold step, those same liberals shrieked that he went too far. So whish is it? is he using racism and fear to do too much, or is he not doing enough? Let me guess, it's both...

Whatever he does, whatever he does, those with TDS will shriek that it's wrong and evil. They do it for purely political reasons.

The federal government and the private sector are doing everything possible to help. I believe that.

Did you say anything when the democrats held up the relief bill to fund liberal pet projects? If you did, I missed it. Therefore, your willingness to hold politicians accountable for the harm they cause, is quite selective.

Stop ranting about Trump, go donate blood.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You do know why, because they aren’t in control of this administration and the ones failing miserably and I don’t fu*king care. Everyone’s life is turned upside down, hospitals running out of supplies, death tolls will approach world war totals and your stuck on one Fuc*king thing, get your fu*cking head out of your ar*ss.

A frightened cry for help.
🐰
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

it's pretty funny that when those of us who are supposedly programmed by fox news and breitbart want to know what's going on at fox news and breitbart, we have to check with wayne

[scottw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers View Post
You do know why, because they aren’t in control of this administration and the ones failing miserably and I don’t fu*king care. Everyone’s life is turned upside down, hospitals running out of supplies, death tolls will approach world war totals and your stuck on one Fuc*king thing, get your fu*cking head out of your ar*ss.

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

A frightened cry for help.
🐰
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

he's psyching himself up for kayak fishing this morning and 9 holes this afternoon....

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

not one syllable, not one, about the democrats and the media which said his one move was a racist over reaction. none of that matters to you.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Because it is a lie, as is Trump*'s claim of what he has done.

We've gone from only 15 people have it and it will soon be zero to 160,000 to 200,000 will perish. Meanwhile, he tweets about his ratings.

The claim "I stopped it" by stopping flights and the accompanying lies about complaints about that are fake news at best. I'm only slightly surprised that John Baron has yet to make an appearance, though I think there is a possibility he lives in CT.

This is only based on publicly available information, the intelligence that was provided to the President and is being concealed by the administration will tell a much more damning story.

January 3, 2020: The CDC is first alerted to a public health event in Wuhan, China (This fact was revealed publicly later by HHS Secretary Alex Azar.)

January 6, 2020: The CDC issues a travel notice for Wuhan due to the spreading coronavirus.

Note: The Trump campaign claims that this marks the beginning of the federal government disease control experts becoming aware of the virus. It was 10 weeks from this point until the week of March 16 when Trump began to change his tone on the threat.

January 8, 2020: The CDC issues an official health advisory about COVID-19.

January 10, 2020: Former Trump Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossert warns that we shouldn’t “jerk around with ego politics” because “we face a global health threat…Coordinate!”

January 18, 2020: After two weeks of attempts, HHS Secretary Alex Azar finally gets the chance to speak to Trump about the virus. The president redirects the conversation to vaping, according to the Washington Post.

January 20, 2020: First U.S. case is reported in Washington state.

January 21, 2020: Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Disease at the CDC tells reporters, “We do expect additional cases in the United States.”

January 27, 2020: Top White House aides meet with Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney to encourage greater focus on the threat from the virus. Joe Grogan, head of the White House Domestic Policy Council warns that “dealing with the virus was likely to dominate life in the United States for many months.”

January 28, 2020: Two former Trump administration officials—Gottlieb and Borio—publish an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal imploring the president to “Act Now to Prevent an American Epidemic.” They advocate a 4-point plan to address the coming crisis:

(1) Expand testing to identify and isolate cases.
Note: This did not happen for many weeks. The first time more than 2,000 tests were deployed in a single day was not until almost six weeks later, on March 11.
(2) Boost flu vaccination efforts to reduce the load on hospitals.
(3) Prepare hospital units for isolation with more gowns and masks.
Note: There was no dramatic ramp-up in the production of critical supplies undertaken. As a result, many hospitals quickly experienced shortages of critical PPE materials.
(4) Vaccine development.

January 30, 2020: Dr. James Hamblin publishes another warning about critical PPE materials in the Atlantic, titled “We Don’t Have Enough Masks.” At the time, it was clear that mask shortages would be a serious problem. Other countries coping with COVID-19 were already running short on masks and ordering them from America and, in addition, almost the entire CDC stockpile had been consumed during the 2009 flu season.

January 31, 2020: Trump puts into action a temporary travel ban on China.

This has been the centerpiece of his claim to have responded to the coronavirus. But even here, the truth is somewhat different.

Trump’s Chinese travel ban only banned “foreign nationals who had been in China in the last 14 days.” This wording did not—at all—stop people from arriving in America from China. In fact, for much of the crisis, flights from China landed in America almost daily filled with people who had been in China, but did not fit the category as Trump’s “travel ban” defined it.

[Pete F.]

The most cynical thing Trump* did yesterday was move the goal posts on his performance. He now says millions would have died if not for his heroic effort.That's to cover for hundreds of thousands dying.

Remember his inaction got us here and he claimed in public that a miracle would solve it, while in private his administration was telling him otherwise.

[Sea Dangles]

He is clearly the greatest president of our lifetime
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

He is clearly the greatest president of our lifetime
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You have an odd measure of greatness.

Trump* received astonishingly prescient strategic & even tactical intelligence warnings about COVID-19. He then utterly failed to act.

Only Trump* himself refused to believe what the previous administration had & his intelligence reports warned him about.

Faced with the coronavirus, Trump chose not to have the White House lead the planning until nearly two months after it began.

Trump* has relentlessly lied about COVID-19: its spread, its danger, & US readiness.

If Trump* had been left alone to use his natural intelligence, we would be at that worst case scenario — “1.6 million to 2.2 million” dead, according to Dr Birx. The reality is that 100,000 to 200,000 dead may be the best we can do at this point after months of Trump*'s lies, inaction and avoiding responsibility.

Those deaths will be what we pay for Trump*’s utter incompetence and willful blindness.

And he’s going to get much, much worse as this crisis gets worse.

God help us.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You have an odd measure of greatness.

Trump* received astonishingly prescient strategic & even tactical intelligence warnings about COVID-19. He then utterly failed to act.

Only Trump* himself refused to believe what the previous administration had & his intelligence reports warned him about.

Faced with the coronavirus, Trump chose not to have the White House lead the planning until nearly two months after it began.

Trump* has relentlessly lied about COVID-19: its spread, its danger, & US readiness.

If Trump* had been left alone to use his natural intelligence, we would be at that worst case scenario — “1.6 million to 2.2 million” dead, according to Dr Birx. The reality is that 100,000 to 200,000 dead may be the best we can do at this point after months of Trump*'s lies, inaction and avoiding responsibility.

Those deaths will be what we pay for Trump*’s utter incompetence and willful blindness.

And he’s going to get much, much worse as this crisis gets worse.

God help us.

Your hate has left you blind to the body of work. We will get through this as a nation but feel free to panic.
Meanwhile, PaulS and Spence made a tick tock video that had more views than Sleepy Joey’s town hall could ever hope for.
👍🏿🙄
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I’m not disagreeing with those points, far to many companies have taken their business elsewhere, my point is this started elsewhere and models from others predicted what would happen in every country this came to and this administration did not gear up quickly or make hard decisions and put out the correct messaging to slow this spread or get the medical supplies manufactured early enough. It doesn’t just fall on Trumps head, but his leadership and downplaying of this has really been terrible. Everyone on this board is entitled to their opinion on how this has been handled, you don’t have to like mine view, feel free to disagree in a respectful and civil way if your capable wink wink.

I know that I'm kinda, a little bit, "different," but I don't think I'm an apple that fell too far from the human tree. Essentially, basically, I react and think like most regular, normal, people. But I never got this supposed "message" from Trump's rhetoric that everything was absolutely fine, that we had nothing to worry about. He seemed to be trying to dampen over reaction rather than just reassuring us, and not that we should disregard the warnings we were constantly getting from media, from experts including those on his team, from modelers, from Democrats and anti-Trumpers. There was plenty of "disaster" messaging, and we were all hearing it. We were not uninformed. But many also have a "me and mine above all else" attitude, and have no compunction about emptying store shelves to selfishly horde for themselves--and those who heard only the "disaster" message" did just that. The message needed some moderation in order to avoid panic.


As far as mixed messages, the Dems, as has been constantly reiterated here, first accused Trump of over-reacting, then under-reacting.

Possibly, probably, I'm used to how Trump speaks, so I don't literally take every word. I also know that his opponents, including media, will deliberately shade his messaging or totally distort it to mean various degrees of unacceptable--from stupid to destructive, anti-American. I strongly suspect that those who don't like him, really do like these distortions whether they actually believe them or not. They stand by them no matter how well they're debunked.

As far as gearing up too slowly, as I keep hearing from those who don't like him--I have said, from the time he became the nominee, that Trump surrounds himself with "experts" re whatever he wants to accomplish. He states what he wants to be done, then relies on them to do it. There was a whole system in place when he took office. It was, as federal bureaucracies are geared, in place to deal with pandemic emergencies and had the responsibility to be prepared, stocked, and ready to go when a crisis arose. It was not. Perhaps it wasn't possible to be ready for COVID-19.

So a team, a "system," had to be created to deal with it. Takes a bit of time to do that. The team seems to be doing a good job. I don't have the expertise to say they aren't. Some here think they do.

The whole world seems to be bungling as well as possible through this. I don't think we're the worst. Not nearly, if at all.

In the meantime, the real culprit seems to be getting a pass. The Chinese Communist Party is the direct villain here, not Trump, or the current Dems or Repubs, or other world leaders. If we have any fault, it is our noble but unrealistic attempt to bring Communist China into our family of trading partners, thinking the CCP would reform and become a capitalist free market form of government. And our government administrations were too happy (in order to finance their own power ambitions) to overtax and overregulate businesses and corporations to the point that it became economically better for them to far more cheaply produce in this new "partner." And we were so ignorantly proud to contribute to, even become unsustainably indebted to, this shining new experiment that would peaceably bring this most oppressive regime into a new world order of benevolent nations.

And we were so mesmerized by how well this experiment was working, how far and quickly China progressed into becoming, from a backward bastion of human oppression, a glittering economic power ready to assume the mantle of THE dominant power which would show us the way to more economically, equitably, stabilize the desired new world order with a Progressive, top down governmentally controlled system.

We were not to fear, but to admire and appreciate Communist China for showing us that our own inequitable capitalistic system was outmoded (and as well, quietly, was our government strangling Constitution).

So now, we are "woked" into this new world where, rather than producing our own essentials, masters of our own fate, we are not only indebted to, but depended on the CCP to coordinate the production of so much of our medical and military needs as well as much of the tech that glues our culture and society together.

The CCP is the criminal who didn't react quickly enough. It is the criminal that willingly let the virus spread worldwide and lie about it in order to protect itself from the wrath of its own people as well as that of the rest of humanity. It could have stopped the spread by doing what you want Trump to have done.

And, ironically, Trump is the only President since the start of our official commercial comity with communism to actually attempt to disentangle us from the CCP's tentacles.

But, for whatever reason (politics, hate, media driven perspective, disinformation) many of us prefer to bash Trump rather than the CCP. If there is any good that comes of this crisis, the best may be the beginning of the downfall of the CCP. The Chinese people (and the rest of the world) need one of those revolutions that brought down the Soviet Union.

An honest look would expose the inherent danger of putting the welfare of your country into the hands of the CCP. If enough of those countries that have bought into China's Belt and Road "help" suffer enough from the pandemic, they might abandon that self destructive foreign "aid." If the U.S. and the rest of the world wean from China's tits, the CCP will collapse, and the Chinese people might be able to rise to heights that would truly be admirable. They are an industrious people. Given actual freedom, who knows how high they can go.