The Antifa Myth

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Detbuch your the poster child of fear when it comes to what's destroying the United states .. all your youtube Traffic makes that crystal clear

If they scare you, maybe they should. I don't post them to frighten. I do it to inform.

As far as my asking Pete why he was trying to scare us with his posts about Trump, I did it in response to his saying "That includes the fool on the hill who wants you to be scared." So I threw his hypocrisy (accusing Trump of Trump of wanting to scare us while that's what Pete constantly does with his posts against Trump) back at him. And then showed you with his next post how scary he made Trump out to be.

He's the one who brought up the scared thing as if Trump was doing something bad, even though that's what Pete does. I wasn't saying it was wrong or bad, but asked why did Pete do the same thing if he thought it was somehow wrong to do so.

[Pete F.]

We should be scared

“An essential step in the fascist march to acceptance and power was to persuade law-and-order conservatives and members of the middle class to tolerate fascist violence as a harsh necessity in the face of Left provocation.”
Robert O. Paxton, "The Anatomy of Fascism" (2004)
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Get rid of qualified immunity.

Surely discuss it

Originally Posted by Ian

Start the conversation without all the BS noise about how the conversation gets invalidated by riots

Peaceful assembly and protest WHEN THEY HAVE COMPLETELY LEGIT POINTS get dented pretty hard when others co-opt the movement with throwing bricks and looting businesses.

Originally Posted by Pete F.

They drove the rector off and disrupted an event, supporting a constitutionally given right to assemble organized by St Johns by using tear gas, rubber bullets and flashbangs to drive them off St Johns grounds for a campaign photo event.
Wrong on many levels.
Perhaps you can justify lining them up and shooting them to keep people safe.

It was stupid, like many things.

Originally Posted by wdmso

TRUMP DEFENDER pull your head from his a s s .. police have a job and the military have a job and neither over lap ... let the police do their job and the military to theirs .fight wars .. you acting as if the United states has never seen unrest ..

You'd love to see dead protesters and applaud while it was happening and you think something is wrong with me.... its comical ..

I have no issue with shooting looters it will only take one ,,,but like most things you see looting and protest as one in the same ... just like police and the military

Trump should offer you a job you'll fit right in.

Would be good if some politicians did not create open space for people angry to vent there frustrations looting and killing. Probably could have stopped at NG MP and presence forces. Probably could have stopped the protestors from surrounding Di Blasio's People's House demanding his resignation.

NG and RA SHOULDN'T NEED to be on the streets

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We should be scared

“An essential step in the fascist march to acceptance and power was to persuade law-and-order conservatives and members of the middle class to tolerate fascist violence as a harsh necessity in the face of Left provocation.”
Robert O. Paxton, "The Anatomy of Fascism" (2004)
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Yep - if you are against hard left violence you are a fascist. Even if you are against hard right violence. FFS

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We should be scared

“An essential step in the fascist march to acceptance and power was to persuade law-and-order conservatives and members of the middle class to tolerate fascist violence as a harsh necessity in the face of Left provocation.”
Robert O. Paxton, "The Anatomy of Fascism" (2004)
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Originally Posted by JohnR

Yep - if you are against hard left violence you are a fascist. Even if you are against hard right violence. FFS

It won't happen over night, but the slope we are on has gotten a lot more slippery. The conditions that sparked these protests, a lack of racial justice and an increasingly militarized environment in this country exist, and Tweety has done nothing but exacerbate the situation.

We now see how Tweety and his followers who share his authoritarian views respond to civil unrest that resulted from genuine grievances. What will they do if protests erupt if this administration tries to postpone the election, suppress the vote in Democratic areas, refuses to accept its result if he loses, or are likely to occur if he wins? Even if he loses the election, Tweety will remain president until January 20, 2021.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Yep - if you are against hard left violence you are a fascist. Even if you are against hard right violence. FFS

You seem to continue to operate under an assumption that many people think Antifa violence is acceptable. Noting that they're totally overblown isn't condoning behavior, it's putting it in perspective and should be seen in context of all violence where it is relatively small.

The problem is when people like Trump fixate on Antifa for political purposes, the right-wing media beats the Antifa drum and now you have a portion of the country softened to social media hoaxes and believing busloads of Antifa are heading to their suburbs to loot the rich people. It's just sowing more division and mistrust.

[Pete F.]

What's wrong with a little violence instead of civil discourse, look at what the occupant of the WH has said about it.

“Part of the problem . . . is no one wants to hurt each other anymore.”

“I’d like to punch him in the face.”

“Maybe he should have been roughed up.”

“I don’t know if I’ll do the fighting myself or if other people will.”

“The audience hit back. That’s what we need a little bit more of.”

“If you do [hurt him], I’ll defend you in court, don’t worry about it.”

“I’ll beat the crap out of you.”

“Knock the crap out of him, would you? I promise you, I will pay your legal fees.”

And when something actually happens, Bunker Baby takes the fam, hides in the bunker, watches his shows and tweets, then emerges with an attack on protesters to create a photo op to show how tough he is.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What's wrong with a little violence instead of civil discourse, look at what the occupant of the WH has said about it.

“Part of the problem . . . is no one wants to hurt each other anymore.”

“I’d like to punch him in the face.”

“Maybe he should have been roughed up.”

“I don’t know if I’ll do the fighting myself or if other people will.”

“The audience hit back. That’s what we need a little bit more of.”

“If you do [hurt him], I’ll defend you in court, don’t worry about it.”

“I’ll beat the crap out of you.”

“Knock the crap out of him, would you? I promise you, I will pay your legal fees.”

And when something actually happens, Bunker Baby takes the fam, hides in the bunker, watches his shows and tweets, then emerges with an attack on protesters to create a photo op to show how tough he is.

We've heard all this . . . several times. It gets boring.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

It's just sowing more division and mistrust.

One of the main goals of ATIFA.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

One of the main goals of ATIFA.

And if that's the case why promote them to the big boys table before they're ready? He's just helping their cause.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

And if that's the case why promote them to the big boys table before they're ready? He's just helping their cause.

They're already at the table. Exposing and prosecuting them weakens their effort to create "division and mistrust" and helps to remove them from the table.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

We've heard all this . . . several times. It gets boring.

What’s getting boring is the consistent incompetence of Tweety and his inability to lead.
Esper’s public statements today show that Tweety is not doing much in the way of good internal politics to maintain cohension on his team, beyond demanding loyalty.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

We've heard all this . . . several times. It gets boring.

The more you hear that rhetoric, the more it seems ok and normal to those that follow this game show clown like he has a clue. Your blue run on font mind numbing posts are far more boring, in fact if I need to get to sleep, I just get on this board and zzzzzzzzzzz.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

They're already at the table. Exposing and prosecuting them weakens their effort to create "division and mistrust" and helps to remove them from the table.

Now you’re just perpetuating the myth. 43 suffered from this as well.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

One of the main goals of ATIFA.

Youtube right
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What’s getting boring is the consistent incompetence of Tweety and his inability to lead.
Esper’s public statements today show that Tweety is not doing much in the way of good internal politics to maintain cohension on his team, beyond demanding loyalty.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He's doing a great job. US should have 100 million vaccine doses by end of year, Fauci says.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

The more you hear that rhetoric, the more it seems ok and normal to those that follow this game show clown like he has a clue. Your blue run on font mind numbing posts are far more boring, in fact if I need to get to sleep, I just get on this board and zzzzzzzzzzz.

Glad to be of help. Even though you don't read them.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you’re just perpetuating the myth. 43 suffered from this as well.
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Nope. It was perpetuated by ANTIFA.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Youtube right
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Wrong.

[Pete F.]

FBI arrested 3 Boogaloo Bois for terrorism in Vegas, with Molotov cocktails on their way to incite violence at a protest.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

He's doing a great job. US should have 100 million vaccine doses by end of year, Fauci says.

Another of your lies.
He said could and he also said there's a chance coronavirus vaccine may not provide immunity for very long.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Another of your lies.
He said could and he also said there's a chance coronavirus vaccine may not provide immunity for very long.
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I copied and pasted an ABC headline. If you want to quibble that ABC lied by saying "should" rather than "could" makes me no diffefence. ABC quotes him as saying, among other things "by maybe November, December, which means that by that time we hopefully would have close to a 100 million doses,"

Anyway, I just used your method of just saying stuff. I like that. Will do that more often, especially when responding to the same kind of bald statements.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I copied and pasted an ABC headline. If you want to quibble that ABC lied by saying "should" rather than "could" makes me no diffefence. ABC quotes him as saying, among other things "by maybe November, December, which means that by that time we hopefully would have close to a 100 million doses,"

Anyway, I just used your method of just saying stuff. I like that. Will do that more often, especially when responding to the same kind of bald statements.

Next you’ll claim that Tweety invented it when he was in the bunker
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Next you’ll claim that Tweety invented it when he was in the bunker
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Actually, I won't say that. That was easy. Will continue your method.

[Pete F.]

And I'll use your's
Though much shorter than Bingbong and Molyneux and not full of baloney

[Ian]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Peaceful assembly and protest WHEN THEY HAVE COMPLETELY LEGIT POINTS get dented pretty hard when others co-opt the movement with throwing bricks and looting businesses.

So start small. Don’t let it get dented here. You know they are different, defend it.

This is a hard one to navigate, because otherwise, we make it too easy to manipulate the system into never fixing itself. Every time someone protests a legit gripe, send in some rioters so no one believes them. I’m not saying that’s what happened here, I’m just saying that if you’re willing to associate the two, you allow that to be a possibility.

The other choice here is to develop some habits where we distance the two conversations, discuss them on their own merits, and vigorously defend each thread from being poisoned by the other.

But both groups of opinions on this site are guilty of not doing this, heck I even failed to do it the other day when I found myself devolving into a rant about trump during a message that started about protests, right after saying we should be better about separating this stuff, so I know I’m not perfect.

BUT if we each admitted that the topics themselves had merit without spilling over to the others, the sharp minds here would probably get somewhere closer to consensus, and might actually move some opinions forward.

Instead we cut the meaty dialog around the merits of the protests short by saying things like everyone is an animal that can’t function in society because they just start rioting, or all cops are bahstads.

And that’s fooked up
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[Ian]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

I sure can...if you really want to make that ridiculous comparison of a voluntary assembly of citizens to protest that turns into violence with a countrywide police force whose primary service goals are to serve and protect. Don't forget, I said voluntary. They chose to be there, at the scene, where the violence took place. No assembly, no violence. When the #^&#^&#^&#^& hits the fan at your house Ian, who are you going to call??????? No tolerance for the bad eggs, anywhere. No more hiding behind a badge.

Missed this one, this thread got busy and it got lost.

I want to answer it, but I’m not entirely sure I get all the dimensions of the point you were intending to make. In order to do justice to your original point here with my response, would you mind clarifying? Not pandering or anything, just not 100% clear on the way the thought was closed out and you asked me what I would do.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

And I'll use your's
Though much shorter than Bingbong and Molyneux and not full of baloney

This is totally inferior propaganda. Bongino and Molyneux don't just say stuff (no wonder you like this tripe video--it uses your just say stuff method) Bongino and Molyneux give detailed, fact and evidence based presentations. Your stuff is propaganda for those who have short attention spans.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

This is totally inferior propaganda. Bongino and Molyneux don't just say stuff (no wonder you like this tripe video--it uses your just say stuff method) Bongino and Molyneux give detailed, fact and evidence based presentations. Your stuff is propaganda for those who have short attention spans.

A head of state using a standing army to occupy an American city, compel citizens off the street, stifle free expression and assembly, using paramilitary forces to smoke clergy out of their churches at the head of state’s whim, is pretty much the founders’ nightmare.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

A head of state using a standing army to occupy an American city, compel citizens off the street, stifle free expression and assembly, using paramilitary forces to smoke clergy out of their churches at the head of state’s whim, is pretty much the founders’ nightmare.
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That's not what happened.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

That's not what happened.

It is what happened